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Originally Posted by alpha1 I can't believe that people still don't get that providing something at lower price or even for free is SELLER's choice. And cannot be subject to any regulation. |
No, it is not that simple. People keep comparing it to tollfree, which is not correct.
If it was as simple as tollfree number, here is how it would work. If I am an app maker registered with Airtel Zero, any customer on Airtel, Vodafone, Tata-telecom, BSNL, Idea, Aircel, office/home Wifi, etc., should get free data access. That is how tollfree phone works.
Also unlike tollfree numbers, apps are used worldwide. When an tiny app maker publishes an app in a Rhode Island server, he knows people from all over the world have equal chance of getting to his app. But a plan like Airtel Zero suddenly incentivizes their customers to stay away from any app that doesn't register with Airtel. There are 1000s of ISPs around the world, if each one starts incentivizes their customers to stay away from apps that don't register with them, small app makers will die a quick death. This is not good for the customers at all, such monopolistic practice should be regulated.
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Originally Posted by srishiva When a call is to be placed, the reason and type of call is provided in the initial message. Everything happens based on this. |
Now you are talking about voice, obviously it will get better QoS. But our contention is about user data.
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Originally Posted by srishiva Whether various applications do this, I am not sure. If carriers had their own apps, they would always do this. |
Carrier might giver higher QoS to their own apps running on user Data, I'll give you that. Why would the ISP give better QoS to youtube video packet over TBHP text packet? Both are TCP packets and should be treated equally.
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Originally Posted by srishiva Mobile networks do respect QoS, their own IP network upto their gateway not beyond that. You can look up QoS in mobile networks. |
All networks respect QoS for their own payload and signalling traffic. But they have no need to respect QoS of user data. In fact, it can be detrimental. I mark all my web traffic as EF, should my web traffic get higher priority over others? In actuality, routers would just strip away the DSCP bit before passing the packet further.
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Originally Posted by kvish I think this argument is confusing. How does going to different ISPs for your business needs go against net neutrality. |
Hmm, I don't how else I can explain... I have already paid for my pipe, why should I pay again to every customer's ISP.
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Originally Posted by StarrySky This is not strictly true in case of LTE. PSTN may be circuit switched, but there is no circuit switching in LTE. |
LTE is for data, obviously it will be packet switched.
Data is always packet switched, it is really the network layer and above we should consider. It doesn't really matter whether it is built over Ethernet or E1 or ADSL.
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Originally Posted by StarrySky So if your browser can negotiate two different "PDP Context" for two different tabs, then the two tabs can have different QoS as well. If you use T-BHP app and YouTube app separately, they will quite possibly use different "PDP Context" and have different QoS. |
How does the browser know to negotiate anything? Let's say I make my mobile phone as a wifi hotspot and connect my laptop to Internet. If I start Chrome to connect to youtube, how does Chrome know about PDP Context negotiation? If I write my own client to talk to a website [I do that a lot], I know nothing about PDP Context negotiation. I just open a socket to port 80 of the destination.
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Originally Posted by StarrySky I'll give the most basic example on how those channels are used for browsing and streaming. If you start a browser, it can negotiate a QoS with the mobile network (PDP Context 1). |
I am a network programmer and I know browsers operate at socket level, which is just above TCP layer. Browsers won't know how to negotiate anything other than an encryption cipher suite for SSL handshake.
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Originally Posted by StarrySky What will happen when you start streaming is that both your browser and your YouTube app will be allocated DCH with different data rates (this is simply because the mobile cannot use FACH and DCH at the same time). After your video session is done and your usage pattern goes back to the brower pattern, the network can remove both DCHs and ask the mobile to use only FACH. If you now start streaming a new video, then the DCHs need to be setup again - which takes some time. This is why you sometimes see "Buffering" when you start streaming and then not afterwards. |
All this happens so far away from the TCP socket, which is used by both RTSP (youtube) and HTTP (any website). How does the mobile network know whether I am using RTSP or HTTP application when I open the TCP socket? People who write mobile applications know nothing about PDP Context negotiations. They just use web services or open TCP sockets to communicate.