[JediKnight]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Try finding a network expert these days. Most of them are in their late 30s, 40s or even 50s. There are no younger network experts because cloud computing has completely dumbed down network configuration.

So true. India has a huge services hangover. Most people have no experience in building world class products/systems hence under appreciate/have no idea about the kind of technical competence required.

If you can get a fresher to do your work, you are doing something technically trivial. And probably your only claim to fame is the cost arbitrage advantage you can get by under paying a desperate rookie. These kinds of jobs face an ever-increasing risk of obsolescence with generative AI and other lower cost geographies emerging.

If we want to see a company of the caliber of Microsoft or Google emerging out of India we have to empower and develop true technologists and get the pointed haired middle manager out of the way.

[rajwheelz]

My $0.02

Been in front of a qwerty keyboard since 1997. I agree with most of the views expressed here as to why people slowly gravitate away from how they initially started.

I didn't and I am fortunate to know a few others who didn't too. For whatever the reasons which I truly don't recollect, I have extreme fondness for breaking s/w rather than making it. I realized it in 1998 and ever since been finding some hardcore nagging bugs in some complex pieces of software. And to write a tool to break a s/w gives me the absolute high.

Same with some in my gang. One was my earlier boss who is now a CEO of a startup and is reaching 60 soon. At the drop of a key, he will roll up his sleeves and start typing Java like nobody's business.

I guess it boils down to whether a person chose a job which actually he is passionate about or he just chose a job because he wanted a salary.

[autobahnjpr]

Let us not forget that Microsoft and Google are being run and managed by Indians. Indians have made great contribution to things like google adserve and adsense products not to forget chrome browser.
Within India, so many products (including but not limited to India stack) have been built in recent years and many more are being rolled out each day. We are miles ahead of others in payment and financial services technology. ZOHO has created a very successful SaaS services bouquet. Do NOT forget India is probably one of the few countries which gave digital vaccination certificate when in the US they were doling out physical certificates.

There is a business case for low end services and there is no shame is doing that business.

Be it toll collection, travel, ticketing, banking, payments, logistics, commerce, government services and other areas, India has moved at a very rapid pace within few years. In our daily life, things are so easy because we have become highly digital with mobile being the center of our daily interactions. Most of these solutions are built, run and maintained by our teams with our technology.

I do not think the observation made are factual and represent the true situation. We are progressing leaps and bounds in technology and software.
Are Canadians worried that no google or MS is coming out of canada?

Originally Posted by JediKnight

So true. India has a huge services hangover. Most people have no experience in building world class products/systems hence under appreciate/have no idea about the kind of technical competence required.

If you can get a fresher to do your work, you are doing something technically trivial. And probably your only claim to fame is the cost arbitrage advantage you can get by under paying a desperate rookie. These kinds of jobs face an ever-increasing risk of obsolescence with generative AI and other lower cost geographies emerging.

If we want to see a company of the caliber of Microsoft or Google emerging out of India we have to empower and develop true technologists and get the pointed haired middle manager out of the way.

[manojas]

System software development, especially in healthcare field is an area where good experience is highly valued. Some of these machines like Cathlab are used for critical procedures on patients, where high quality is mandatory. Proper functioning of these machines are life critical and hence the SW engineers who develop the SW for these machines are also needs to have good experience.
Needless to say, the shifting of the functionality from FPGAs to PC based software has in fact affected the reliability of these machines.
And finally, this kind of software is still predominantly developed outside India. The main constraint while transferring such jobs to India is the availability of software engineers with 15+ years' experience who are still coding.

[qaqa]

The IT and software development sector is a "mass" employer. Of the masses who join in, many may not have the aptitude for technically challenging tasks. The few who are technically inclined may not find projects which are sufficiently interesting once they have mastered the entry-level tasks which are farmed out to Indian software houses.

Very few may be fortunate enough to be both technically inclined, and have opportunities to work on challenges which really keep them interested in the field. Most service organizations also only have a sprinkling of roles for highly experienced technologists.

The natural outcome is that most people would exit the technical stream at some point and get into business or management roles.

The situation in most other fields is very different. Most lawyers, doctors and accountants continue to focus on their core trade as their career progresses; in fact, their technical expertise and ability only grows with age. Most well known professionals in these fields are well into their 60s and 70s! In fact finding a lawyer or doctor who is willing to take up management is in itself a task!

So I dont think it is a cultural issue. The issue is localised to the IT industry due to lack of quality technical opportunity and "mass" recruitment.

[pandey.jai]

I’m writing here seeking opinion/suggestions on my specific challenges that I have experienced in the recent past. Apologies if this doesn’t fit in with the theme/purpose of this thread.

As I’ve grown older, I find it very difficult to listen to some of the presentations and the general process related changes that happen within the organization. I find myself completely disinterested and browsing on my phone (or posting this reply) while people go on about whatever their PPT is. This typically comes back to bite me as I’ve to go over the ppt myself later because I need some of the information and thus end up spending more time than needed.

Any suggestions on how to get myself out of this rut?

[deep_bang]

Originally Posted by pandey.jai

Any suggestions on how to get myself out of this rut?

I believe that having a stake in any discussion is important. . One way to do that us to assume you are the investor in that meeting and you need to see results. If that's your position, what would you want to see.

Being an investor is just an example. The idea is to be someone who has a stake in the results of the team and not just your own results.

[qaqa]

Originally Posted by pandey.jai

I’m writing here seeking opinion/suggestions on my specific challenges that I have experienced in the recent past. Apologies if this doesn’t fit in with the theme/purpose of this thread.

As I’ve grown older, I find it very difficult to listen to some of the presentations and the general process related changes that happen within the organization. I find myself completely disinterested and browsing on my phone (or posting this reply) while people go on about whatever their PPT is. This typically comes back to bite me as I’ve to go over the ppt myself later because I need some of the information and thus end up spending more time than needed.

Any suggestions on how to get myself out of this rut?

Well, as our careers progress the number of responsibilities keep increasing and we no longer have the bandwidth nor inclination to deal with the minutae of corporate life. Our familiarity with the organization also grows and hence the quantum and value of "new information" contained in these presentations is also much lower.

For most matters, I opt to skip live sessions and presentations and look at the written material. I am able to digest the written material much faster than sitting through a presentation; else I ask my team to give me a precis of the matter. It is only very complex matters, or very sensitive ones where I sit through a live session. For these sessions, putting away my phone works wonders in improving my concentration!

[nikhilarni]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

Other than medical aspirants taking up engineering due to not getting an mbbs admission, the popular reason was parents not allowing them to pursue arts or sports.

Similar situation. With my dad being from IIT-B, there was really no other career option other than becoming an engineer, and my sister taking up medicine.

With BE in Electronics, software / IT was a backup career and it just happened. I started out as a programmer / coding, but after a while I just got bored.

For me, it was like a solving a mathematical puzzle. Breaking down a problem/ requirement into a mathematical or logical expression was the biggest thrill. Then coding is more like just putting syntax around it. It wasn't challenging enough later on.

I agree with most opinions on the forum. But I still get under the hood if I have to troubleshoot or just some analysis ( for first hand due diligence ). I slowly moved focus towards tool based technologies.

[Rajeevraj]

Originally Posted by pandey.jai

As I’ve grown older, I find it very difficult to listen to some of the presentations and the general process related changes that happen within the organization. I find myself completely disinterested and browsing on my phone (or posting this reply) while people go on about whatever their PPT is. This typically comes back to bite me as I’ve to go over the ppt myself later because I need some of the information and thus end up spending more time than needed.

Any suggestions on how to get myself out of this rut?

Probably more to do with the quality of presentations in your organization and also all over. Most corporate presentations are now filled up with a lot of jargon and low/no value information. Instead of the presentation being a tool/guidance for the presenter to share/speak/elaborate on a topic, I mostly see it is the other way around- The presentation takes the center stage and the presenter is dependent on it to convey information. If you notice a lot of times the presenter will be just reading out from the slides. This irritates me a great deal because if someone is just reading out to me, I may as well read it at my own time at my own pace.

So in your case, you subconsciously already know how the presentation will pan out and you don't have the patience to pay attention to the full thing just for getting that 2-3 bits of key information relevant to you.

One suggestion is to ask for the deck in advance, so that you can go over it and then ask any relevant questions only in the session.

Have heard Amazon does not do presentations at all, it always has to be a detailed document shared in advance and the meetings are only for discussions.

[SideView]

Originally Posted by pandey.jai

I’m writing here seeking opinion/suggestions on my specific challenges that I have experienced in the recent past. Apologies if this doesn’t fit in with the theme/purpose of this thread.

I find myself completely disinterested and browsing on my phone (or posting this reply) while people go on about whatever their PPT is.

I have tried reducing my distractions, this has helped with getting things done and focus on topics. Keep your phone in bag or in such a place that you have to actively move from your desk and check it ever 2/3 hours rather than every 5 mins

[Spaced Out]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

And unfortunately I hear the same people tell that they don't want their kids to go into arts as well. So the cycle continues.

Why will they take arts when Whatsapp university is there to educate anyone on that area. These days everyone is a historian through whatsapp.

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by qaqa

The natural outcome is that most people would exit the technical stream at some point and get into business or management roles.

IMHO, this culture of letting people manage others after losing a grasp of the underlying tech is problematic. Outside the IT services industry, people management without an understanding of the technology can be frustrating for everyone involved. I am not talking about a Facilities manager, or HR. I am talking about managing a team producing a tech product.

Good, successful managers/leaders always have a very good grasp of all the layers of technology, to make sound decisions. The ones who become managers as a way of exiting technical stream are usually chaos managers, who cause the chaos in the first place - summoning everyone and their dog to every meeting, and every discussion. They do this as they usually lack the ability to understand issues, and make sound decisions.

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by SideView

I have tried reducing my distractions, this has helped with getting things done and focus on topics. Keep your phone in bag or in such a place that you have to actively move from your desk and check it ever 2/3 hours rather than every 5 mins

I don't think he meant distractions as the issue, but rather the inability to focus. The mind doesn't need any cell phone to wander. I feel the question is more about how to keep the mind from wandering.

I also face that issue, especially in situations where my active participation is not required or I cannot connect the dots to my immediate project or goals. The solution is to reduce the number of meetings and skip the ones where you cannot contribute. But we don't work in an ideal world and people just show up and waste time. However, I have also seen some senior folks actively engaged even in the meetings and demos which are not at all relevant to them. That is a skill I wish I had.

[G20Rider]

I have been working in IT for past 12 years, out of that last 9 years outside of India. In all these years I’ve always worked as an in-house tech guy mostly with financial institutions. Last year I thought “let’s try working as a consultant with a service based company” and joined a service based company. It sounded exciting on paper (new challenges in the form of new projects and clients every year). One year later, i’m serving my notice here, essentially fleeing back to an in house tech team.

What I learnt was, in a service based company, there is a limited value for technical expertise in the form of max amount a person can be billed for. For most consultancies, that peaks at senior architect roles. And a person can easily make senior architect with ~10 years of experience. Beyond that you hit a glass ceiling simply because they can’t bill clients any higher for your individual contribution.

Only way to grow further in these companies is to facilitate more headcount’s that can be billed. So while I personally can only be billed for say 1000$ per hour, I can still grow (promotions and increments) if I can “invent” x number of billable positions every quarter.

But “inventing” these billable positions is more of a sales job where you are essentially selling headcount to your clients and that needs a vastly different set of skills that just technical stuff.

And it’s not just India, it’s just how service based companies business model work everywhere. It’s feels quite stark in India as a vast majority of IT jobs in India is with service based companies and also due to a huge steady supply of young engineers. So an average India IT service provider employee with a decade of experience has to move on to delivery management roles if they wish to have good career growth.

In contrast, western countries has a perineal shortage of skilled local workers which allows an engineer in a service based company there to continue working in a tech role well into his retirement as long as one is not super ambitious about career growth.
In house tech roles are greater in numbers too in these countries.
In contrast, working in house is a totally different game. I never had any issues finding a growth path in house while staying relatively hands on. One is promoted for being a great engineer/problem solver/team leader. Senior vice presidents who still contribute to architectural reviews and system designs, while being highly valued by their colleagues as well as the organisation is not rare.

And finally, don’t forget the social pressure in India to become a “manager”