[blackasta]

Originally Posted by carboy

Why doesn't India let furriners work in India for under 25000$ per annum? I am sure tons of Bangladeshis would love to compete with Indians for jobs. At all levels.



They already interfere, don't they? It's called custom duty on imports.

Good point on the USD 25000 rule.
I believe custom duty for one time imports in India and 'income tax' for persons working in US may be equated.

Again - I am not try to justify anything or oppose anything, just pondering whether my thoughts are correct , and if not what are schools of thought are there.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by blackasta

I believe custom duty for one time imports in India and 'income tax' for persons working in US may be equated.

How so? Both citizens and non-citizens pay income tax. But only imports pay custom duty.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by blackasta

But H1B/L1B/L1A does not entitle you equal rights as citizens - you cannot buy property neither can you vote, and you have to pay SSN tax, which I feel compensates in the 'social cause' of US citizens.

What do you mean? Obviously H1B person can buy property. And vote is not a benefit, but a duty. When you work in any country, all taxes must be paid. But you don't have to do jury duty, drafted into the army, etc.

Originally Posted by blackasta

But then, if it's not a level playing field, why does USA complain in WTO (and win) when India mandates local contents in solar power units (which makes it difficult for US companies and encourages the make in India concept)?

Countries/Businesses always want access to free market, but don't want to provide free market.

Originally Posted by blackasta

Here's an article calling the localization law as 'stupid', why isn't Trump's 'local person law' stupid?

Businesses will call any restrictions on globalization as stupid because it affects profit. Forbes is a business magazine.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by carboy

How so? Both citizens and non-citizens pay income tax. But only imports pay custom duty.

True - what i meant to say is that if there is 1 position for a job, and a foreigner gets it, he too is paying tax. So the country is not losing any revenue from income tax.
In case of something being bought from abroad for personal consumption, govt loses the revenue (sales tax/vat etc) it would have otherwise charged on domestically made product, and hence compensates for the same by charging a customs duty.

Originally Posted by Samurai

What do you mean? Obviously H1B person can buy property. And vote is not a benefit, but a duty. When you work in any country, all taxes must be paid. But you don't have to do jury duty, drafted into the army, etc.

I should have worded my post carefully - not 'cannot buy' but 'generally do not buy', as I have seen. Most buy property after GC.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Countries/Businesses always want access to free market, but don't want to provide free market.

Businesses will call any restrictions on globalization as stupid because it affects profit. Forbes is a business magazine.

True.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by blackasta

Also - anyone wishing to check out the simple version of the bill that's the subject of discussion:

https://lofgren.house.gov/uploadedfi...017__final.pdf

I, and I am sure thousands of other Indians here, have been longing for this part:

Eliminates the “per country” cap for employment-based immigrant visas so that all workers are treated fairly.
o Ends discrimination in allocation of employment-based visas so employers can hire the most skilled
workers without regard to national origin.
o Ensures that all employment-based immigrants are subject to the same wait times for visas.

Hopefully this will put an end to years and years of waiting for those who have applied for employment based immigrant visas.

Originally Posted by Samurai

Actually, these are very fair terms, for both H1-B and American employees. Only companies that thrive on exploiting employees will weep and scream. Nothing wrong in doubling 60K salary cap after 20 years.

Couldn't agree more.

Originally Posted by blackasta

I should have worded my post carefully - not 'cannot buy' but 'generally do not buy', as I have seen. Most buy property after GC.

I have bought a house even though I am on L1. I know many of my colleagues and friends who are on H1B and have purchased houses.

[blackasta]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Hopefully this will put an end to years and years of waiting for those who have applied for employment based immigrant visas.

So this means GC processing time reduced right?

Originally Posted by amitoj

I have bought a house even though I am on L1. I know many of my colleagues and friends who are on H1B and have purchased houses.

My bad - I do not know anyone.

[Samurai]

I am also struck by the timing of this bill. Since this is introduced in the congress at the same time as the Trump's muslim ban, all the traditional US supporters of H1-B (read as US IT giants) are busy protesting muslim ban. By sheer contrast with the muslim ban, the H1-B restriction bill will hardly have any opponents.

[JMaruru]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I am also struck by the timing of this bill. Since this is introduced in the congress at the same time as the Trump's muslim ban, all the traditional US supporters of H1-B (read as US IT giants) are busy protesting muslim ban. By sheer contrast with the muslim ban, the H1-B restriction bill will hardly have any opponents.

The 'Travel Ban' has amassed larger vocal crowd support coz of the politics + liberal discontent with the present administration.

On the other hand, the H1-B bill, will have silent(behind the scene) and influential opponents in the IT and allied Industry lobbies. Having said that, the Trump administration banning the political lobbies in the hill might have some impact on this bill.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by JMaruru

On the other hand, the H1-B bill, will have silent(behind the scene) and influential opponents in the IT and allied Industry lobbies. Having said that, the Trump administration banning the political lobbies in the hill might have some impact on this bill.

Actually, this bill is lot tamer than what was expected. The AG nominee Jeff Sessions wants to entirely eliminate H1B program. This bill looks like a compromise between the two extreme groups.

H1B has always been highly beneficial to companies and very unfair to employees, both US and foreign. H1B allowed labour arbitrage, which Indian IT companies exploited to the hilt. TCS was the largest Indian software company 25 years ago, itself has grown 100 times in size thanks to H1B. This phenomena kept the IT wages stagnant in US for a long time. People are still making roughly the same amount I used to make 15-20 years ago in USA.

Meanwhile, it pushed the IT salaries in India into the orbit. This killed the domestic IT industry to a large extent. Major IT projects in India are often executed by large IT companies like TCS/Infosys at below cost as showcase projects. Since they make obscene profit from H1B bodyshopping, they don't mind giving away domestic projects at below cost, for training their staff. So Indians got used to paying very little for software.

As a result, Indian IT service companies can't survive on domestic business at all. Nobody wants to pay fair price for Software development in India. I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked to develop and supply software at 25-50% cost.

Example:
Domestic customer: I want a custom software that does XYZ.
Domestic vendor: Sure, it will take 5 engineers 6 months to develop this.
Domestic customer: Great, I have a budget of ₹10L for this.
Domestic vendor: Sir, just the salaries for 5 engineers for 6 months will be ₹15L. Now add the overhead costs and fixed costs, which will be at least ₹10L more. My cost alone will be ₹25L. I have to charge at least ₹30L.
Domestic customer: I don't know all that, if I am paying ₹30L, I can go with bigger companies like TCS/Infosys (who will do it below cost).

Therefore, this H1B restriction may finally revive domestic IT services industry. Yes, it also means IT salaries which is artificially kept high, will tank and software services price, which is artificial kept low, will finally raise.

[aargee]

Originally Posted by Samurai

I am also struck...restriction bill will hardly have any opponents.

Sir, what's your take on the impact of the US IT companies that have been operating out of India? In your opinion, what might impact them good or bad? Thanks.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by aargee

Sir, what's your take on the impact of the US IT companies that have been operating out of India? In your opinion, what might impact them good or bad? Thanks.

In respect to H1B? The effect will be pretty much similar, they will start hiring US locals since the labour arbitrage opportunity is no more available. US IT wages will finally start raising.

[shibujp]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Actually, this bill is lot tamer than what was expected. The AG nominee Jeff Sessions wants to entirely eliminate H1B program. This bill looks like a compromise between the two extreme groups.

H1B has always been highly beneficial to companies and very unfair to employees, both US and foreign. H1B allowed labour arbitrage, which Indian IT companies exploited to the hilt. TCS was the largest Indian software company 25 years ago, itself has grown 100 times in size thanks to H1B. This phenomena kept the IT wages stagnant in US for a long time. People are still making roughly the same amount I used to make 15-20 years ago in USA.

Meanwhile, it pushed the IT salaries in India into the orbit. This killed the domestic IT industry to a large extent. Major IT projects in India are often executed by large IT companies like TCS/Infosys at below cost as showcase projects. Since they make obscene profit from H1B bodyshopping, they don't mind giving away domestic projects at below cost, for training their staff. So Indians got used to paying very little for software.

As a result, Indian IT service companies can't survive on domestic business at all. Nobody wants to pay fair price for Software development in India. I have lost count of the number of times I have been asked to develop and supply software at 25-50% cost.

Example:
Domestic customer: I want a custom software that does XYZ.
Domestic vendor: Sure, it will take 5 engineers 6 months to develop this.
Domestic customer: Great, I have a budget of ₹10L for this.
Domestic vendor: Sir, just the salaries for 5 engineers for 6 months will be ₹15L. Now add the overhead costs and fixed costs, which will be at least ₹10L more. My cost alone will be ₹25L. I have to charge at least ₹30L.
Domestic customer: I don't know all that, if I am paying ₹30L, I can go with bigger companies like TCS/Infosys (who will do it below cost).

Therefore, this H1B restriction may finally revive domestic IT services industry. Yes, it also means IT salaries which is artificially kept high, will tank and software services price, which is artificial kept low, will finally raise.

Very well articulated. My company recently participated in a bid of a project for a government organisation (my first time in a domestic project) and I was amazed when I saw the RFP state values like 250/- per hour for a software engineer and 1500/- for a project manager. And the RFP also mentioned that the company should be in profit for the last 3 years with a huge amount as turnover!!

As stated there is very little room for defending the proposed changes given the way in which Indian companies have misused the provisions and made the program the cornerstone of their business model.

Another impact that it has had is practically stagnate the careers of people at a early stage in their careers. In my opinion very few of these H1B positions add value to you as a software engineer and companies expect you to play the role of an onsite coordinator or a go between for offshore and onsite team. When I worked for a retail client a few years ago, my company tried to push for onsite development and design positions and the response (rightly so) was "Why can't developers work offshore? What the added value to us in bringing them onsite?"

Something had to give eventually.

Drive on,
Shibu

[akhil_007]

Can anyone clarify what this Master Degree exemption revoking means? Does it mean Masters from US university only is considered or Masters from any other country is considered as well??

[centaur]

AFAIK, there is a 20k visa quota set aside for applicants who have a masters from US. If they dont get selected here, they again have a chance of applying in the remaining 65k quota. This is what they seem to be talking of and removing it but am not sure if these 20k visas will be merged with the remaining 65k or will it be axed totally

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by aargee

Sir, what's your take on the impact of the US IT companies that have been operating out of India? In your opinion, what might impact them good or bad? Thanks.

Originally Posted by Samurai

In respect to H1B? The effect will be pretty much similar, they will start hiring US locals since the labour arbitrage opportunity is no more available. US IT wages will finally start raising.

I think he meant companies like Accenture and IBM that have huge operations in India. If the IT salaries in India are indeed going to tank, these companies only stand to profit more from that. No?