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28th August 2020, 15:09 | #17 |
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| Re: Indian Army : Of Religion & Buddies Very apprehensive about posting this, because it deals with 2 sacred institutions- religion itself and the Indian Armed forces. But it's a personal experience that I'd like to narrate and I'm hoping a mature forum like this can handle a bit of a contrarian opinion. First off, I think the Indian Armed forces are outstanding institutions, all branches of them. I have no doubts that every soldier is extremely tolerant and professional. I envy the men and women in uniform and I know that I do not have the required discipline to live their path, I just wish I did and am very grateful for their service. But I also think the general polarizing climate has had an effect even on the forces. Coming to the experience. Apologies if I am deliberately vague about the details, but it is not my intention to cast anyone in a bad light. A few years ago I met a serving officer from one of the branches of the services. We were doing a shared outdoor activity over a period of time and we hit it off really well and became good friends in a very short time. Each time he was here on work in Bangalore, we would meet up and if by chance I happened to be at a location where he was posted, I would look him up. The only thing that made me slightly uncomfortable were his negative references to the followers of a particular religion. Nothing serious, but they were quite a few references and he insisted on painting all members in the same negative light so much so that he once got ticked off about a delivery person being from that religion! I did try to counter, but not very strongly. I really looked up to him and was in awe of his life in the forces, so didn't really make any strong arguments against his views. We'd usually meet in a restaurant or a mess, but on one of his visits here, I insisted that he come home and have a meal and meet my wife. Now, I'm an atheist, but am the child of parents who were raised in two different religions. And my wife was raised in a different religion as well. So we have the holy books of 3 major religions kept together, given equal importance (though hardly ever opened!), in the same place at home. I could see very obviously that it was, well, a bit of a surprise for him when he saw that. Now all I can say is that I have not heard from him after that. No messages or calls returned. Have confirmed with mutual friends that he's fine and not posted in a forward post or anything like that. It's been almost a year now. Could be that he just realized what a lousy conversationalist I am but I'm pretty sure it was something else. Now before the inevitable flaming of this worthless 'civvie' starts , I am not trying to say this is a representative thing. Again, I reiterate, I am 100% sure that the vast, vast majority of the armed forces are tolerant and professional and that is the ethos that is encouraged there. I am 100% sure that even my buddy keeps his personal opinions separate from his duty. I have a few other friends in the forces as well and they all still tolerate me. And everyone can see that during any emergency, the wonderful members of our forces evacuate and help all those in need, irrespective of religion or any other differences. All I'm providing is an anecdote from personal experience that seems to me (and I could be wrong) to show that a polarizing political climate can have an effect everywhere and we would be good to guard against that. Apologies (especially to the OP, Hunter - your opening post was awesome and I loved each of your anecdotes) if it comes across as anything else, I do not have any other agenda here. Last edited by am1m : 28th August 2020 at 15:30. |
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28th August 2020, 15:20 | #18 | ||
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| Re: Indian Army : Of Religion & Buddies Great thread. And much needed in these times. As a fauji kid who grew up in the army of the 80s and 90s, I have very high regard for the fauj's unique approach to secularism. I was also of the generation that was taught the value of Unity in Diversity, in army schools across the country. We had classmates from all parts of the country including North East and I have never forgotten their horror stories of how they were treated as non-Indians outside of Cantonment (including being forced to pay foreigner fees at Qutub Minar). Finally, for me the song that really gets me going is not the national anthem (which has its own place) but the Indian Army band's rendition of Sare Jahan Se Accha - here is the Beating the Retreat version below. Formerly known as Tarana-i-Hind, it has a very complex history mirroring our nation's own complexity and I for one love it. Quote:
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Please note that this holds true for only soldiers not for the commissioned officers who are deemed to have no religion or community but that of their troops. Officers can apply for a specific regiment but their allocation is definitely not on the basis of their community. Their merit in their training (as recorded in NDA/IMA or OTA) will play a role in regiment assignments as even regiments have their own hierarchy within the army (welcome to the army!). There is an aspect of parent privilege - they can ask for their father's regiment but this is a knife that cuts both ways The IN and IAF in contrast are highly technical services and their lower ranks come with a higher level of education and are further trained in the service. Please note that this is not to disparage any of the three services. An IAF lower rank officer is handling a multi-million dollar aircraft and his expertise will ensure that the pilot will fly safely. In contrast, the Army needs their troops to disregard their fear and follow their officers in battle. To illustrate, in any army firing range you will see the following message in Hindi: Sabse Pahle Desh Ki Izzat Unit Ki Izzat Khud Ki Izzat Finally, our armed forces have much to be praised for but collaborations across the three services remains a distant dream. That is a more complex story and is for those with more expertise than me to respond. All I will note is that to my knowledge, except for the joint command in Nicobar, none of the three services have a shared headquarter/operations areas like the US and Chinese theater command. So the Eastern Command HQ for Indian Army is Calcutta, for the IAF its Shillong and for the Navy in Vishakapatnam! Joint training in the NDA and DSSC helps but really not the same thing. I believe the three service chiefs during Kargil were from the same NDA batch and that enabled better coordination but to me that really illustrates the problem. The Army as the senior and most influential service definitely bears more responsibility for this. Sadly the recent crop of Army chiefs show no signs of improving the state of affairs. And while the Armed forces are definitely responsible in part for this, I also consider it to be part of the general myopia in Indian strategic thinking. | ||
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28th August 2020, 16:12 | #19 |
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28th August 2020, 16:21 | #20 |
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| Re: Indian Army : Of Religion & Buddies Reading this took me to my serving days. Though I have had very different roles and responsibilities (mostly classified), I can easily relate to what it used to be - Brotherhood - irrespective of caste, faith, social standings, language, culture and so on. And that's what we lived for and some of us died for. My highest respect to those departed souls. And when I look at what's happening in this beautiful country in the name of religion, it breaks my heart and have me think hard of when and how did we come to this madness. Damn you political goons! You have ruined my country and absolutely disrespected the blood spilled. |
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28th August 2020, 16:45 | #21 | |
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28th August 2020, 17:08 | #22 | |
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| Re: Indian Army : Of Religion & Buddies Quote:
Jai Hind ! | |
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28th August 2020, 17:13 | #23 |
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| Re: Indian Army : Of Religion & Buddies Dear Hunter3077, First of all, thank you very much for this post. I was quite disillusioned in the past few months with the state of inter-religious affairs and extreme polarisation between the various communities. But this post reignited the vigour in my heart on the idea of India. This is the reason I believe in India, this is the reason I know that we as a country still hold the moral high ground despite the recent downward spiral in the inter-community relations. Thank you Smartcat for that photo, I am not exagerating when I say that I had tears in my eyes when I first saw it. Last edited by dragracer567 : 28th August 2020 at 17:15. |
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28th August 2020, 20:01 | #24 |
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| Re: Indian Army : Of Religion & Buddies Great post!! I've always been in awe of our forces and hold them in very high regards for their services to our nation. This account only reinforces my conviction in the ethos of our forces. All I can pray for is that the fabric of this great institution doesn't get maligned because of hyper nationalistic chest thumping, political subservience or changes in general community relations in the country. While not representative of the entire community, the current geo-political environment does seem to be rubbing off on our forces negatively. I can only hope that the forces continue on their unbiased, righteous path unrelentingly, free of the misleading narratives set out by the political diaspora. |
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28th August 2020, 23:44 | #25 | ||||||||||||||||||
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29th August 2020, 00:19 | #26 |
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| Re: Indian Army : Of Religion & Buddies Kudos to you for this thread. My family has served 3 generations in the Defence Services and this thread highlights what it boils down to - a deep love for the motherland and its people regardless of what faith they follow. |
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29th August 2020, 00:54 | #27 | |
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| Re: Indian Army : Of Religion & Buddies Quote:
Given the turbulent and intolerant times we live in this was a great reminder that there are still such institutions in this country Thanks once again, for this post and your service and thanks to everyone who face impossible conditions to protect us. Jai Hind. | |
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29th August 2020, 10:09 | #28 | ||
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29th August 2020, 18:57 | #29 |
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| Re: Indian Army : Of Religion & Buddies If there is an institution that combines all of India in one thread then we are talking about Indian Armed Forces. I ardently follow Lt. Gen Syed Ata Hasnain (Retd) who still fondly remembers his Badri Vishal being a Garhwal rifle soldier. I had a friend whose brother was an officer in a medium regiment which used to recruit from hinterlands of UP and mainly brahmins. Therefore his brother even being a Panjabi, used to wear Janeyu (sacred thread) with his fellow men. My office colleague who is an ex army officer from Kanpur, and was from Grenadiers, had his fellow men coming from Qaimkhani Rajputs. And I would like to end my post with this beautiful video. If time permits then please watch the complete video. |
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30th August 2020, 00:32 | #30 |
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