Are IT people arrogant??

CaliAtenza · 12th April 2007, 04:16

i just wanted ask (and not start a flame war)...because it seems many of the guys on here are in the IT industry of some capacity. My uncle and his friends are in the US on H1B visas to do various projects. My uncle works with covansis as do a few of the other people. Well i had a chance to meet all of these people this past weekend and we were all standing around dicussing stuff when the topic of H1B visas came up. The story is that a bill has been presented in the US Congress that would cut down on the number of H1B visas and put the American Workers first, before considering foreign workers to do the same jobs. I took the position of devil's advocate...it seemed to piss everyone off because they all seemed to throw a tantrum..as in "oh americans are so dumb", "the american financial/IT industry would collapse in a day if indians werent around", "the indian worker can do in a day what takes an american a week", "americans arent productive", and so on so forth. At least to me, i was a bit offended, being an american...i mean, at least respect the country and your colleagues that you have come to work with. Is this sentiment shared among IT guys in india, or is just something that happens when they go work overseas..in any country...not just the US

low_bass_makker · 12th April 2007, 04:40

I dont have any theory here....but a simple one line thing.....the IQ of a indian is a bit high when compared to a average american.......this is because to survive in india for one`s bread and butter is quite difficult when compared to america....which make indian a work hard worker and have more experience......but some americans are great people....so no heart feelings just my two words......

condor · 12th April 2007, 06:14

Just that we all do somethings better than others - we are better than Americans in some respects, but there are things that I would love to see Indians do in a way the Americans do.

We have contributed a lot to the US-A, while US-A has in turn given us quite a bit. It's reciprocal, and wouldn't have grown to todays' proportions otherwise.

CaliAtenza · 12th April 2007, 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

I dont have any theory here....but a simple one line thing.....the IQ of a indian is a bit high when compared to a average american.......this is because to survive in india for one`s bread and butter is quite difficult when compared to america....which make indian a work hard worker and have more experience......but some americans are great people....so no heart feelings just my two words......

i understand the IQ part, the people i was talking with, as well as my uncle, used the same argument...but i dont think its all about IQ...it can only get u so far. I would love to see indians maybe be more creative both in the classroom and the workplace...i guess, at least my personal expierence, with being in the indian educational system for a year and a half now...i think creativity and out of the box thinking is severely lacking :(.

msdivy · 12th April 2007, 07:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliAtenza

........
I took the position of devil's advocate...it seemed to piss everyone off because they all seemed to throw a tantrum..as in "oh americans are so dumb", "the american financial/IT industry would collapse in a day if indians werent around", "the indian worker can do in a day what takes an american a week", "americans arent productive", and so on so forth. At least to me, i was a bit offended, being an american...i mean, at least respect the country and your colleagues that you have come to work with. Is this sentiment shared among IT guys in india, or is just something that happens when they go work overseas..in any country...not just the US

I feel they are just making a case for themselves.
IMO:
1. American Fin/IT industry would be affected if Indians were sent back ( US must give 'infinite' H-1B visas: Bill Gates ).
Reason: Compared to Americans, Indians work for less money and more hours ( Indian H1-B visa holders paid less than US citizen ).Why they do it: Most Indians want to be in US of A, no matter what and its their personal decision.

2. In terms of productivity, I think there is no difference. Who ever has spent more time on the product will understand better & will be more productive.

3. Ours is an American company having its development center in Bangalore. In our company there is no distinction between work done by American and Indians. There are instances of both good & not-good work done by both of them.

msdivy · 12th April 2007, 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by low_bass_makker

.....the IQ of a indian is a bit high when compared to a average american.......

Indians IQ may be high than Americans because Indians get into math (during schooling) rather early & do more of it.

But average Indian's IQ is no higher than average American's IQ. They are equally dumb & intelligent among both of them.

Why Americans succeed more than Indians:
1. They take more risks
2. They don't fear failure as much as Indians.

sajo · 12th April 2007, 08:29

Just consider the fact that a huge chunk of all the major innovations/inventions in the last century are attributed to Americans.

Its just that Americans can afford to be more complacent than us, it will take us a while to get there.

DriverR · 12th April 2007, 08:49

I think to generally use the term "IT people are arrogant" would not be correct. From my experience, my take on this is there are some Indians who go abroad and think they have become kings! Yes, these people can be called arrogant. But these people can be from all walks of life, not neccessarily IT.
At the same time there are many Indians who go abroad and learn from their experience and become more worldly-wise. These people are not at all arrogant and they are wonderful people who have a more balanced and wholesome outlook to life.

spadival · 12th April 2007, 08:58

Yes.. The vast majority of them are arrogant.. The reality is that Indian IT industry is just a tiny fraction of the global IT industry. Sure, we are the fastest growing among the lot, but majority of the growth is from low end work.

CaliAtenza · 12th April 2007, 09:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by msdivy

I feel they are just making a case for themselves.
IMO:
1. American Fin/IT industry would be affected if Indians were sent back ( US must give 'infinite' H-1B visas: Bill Gates ).
Reason: Compared to Americans, Indians work for less money and more hours ( Indian H1-B visa holders paid less than US citizen ).Why they do it: Most Indians want to be in US of A, no matter what and its their personal decision.

2. In terms of productivity, I think there is no difference. Who ever has spent more time on the product will understand better & will be more productive.

3. Ours is an American company having its development center in Bangalore. In our company there is no distinction between work done by American and Indians. There are instances of both good & not-good work done by both of them.

yes but u just cant stand around and insult the people you worth with, no matter what race they are. And i felt offended because i am a american by both birth and nationality. And you have to understand...americans are pissed off because their jobs are being taken away...its their right to keep their jobs in the country. But i also agree if the domestic worker isnt competent to do the job, the foriegner should be given a shot. Its like if pakistanis or any other persons were taking over indian jobs, how would you guys feel?

tsk1979 · 12th April 2007, 09:29

Don't thing its anything to do with competence here
There are two factors
1. Number of engineers in the US were lesser than the demand
2. Indian labour is cheap.

As for IQ,good worker-bad worker, you will find idiots and genuises in very race and country.

If there is any difference which I have seen w.r.t Americans and Indians(Migrated H1B) it is the fact that an Indian is ready to work 80 hours a week and disregard his family and personal life for work.

Work life balance as a concept exists for lesser number of Indians than americans. Surely there are some americans too who put work over life, but their percentage is smaller than indians.

Here I have seen people working on friday evening till 2am saturday morning. Parking lots are pretty populated at these odd times in India, but in the US you will atmost find 2-3 cars and they will be Indians!

raajks · 12th April 2007, 09:30

Arrogance is an attitude!!! It does not restrict itself by what work people do........

Given the fact the IT folks that get a handsome pay does not make them more or less arrogant......
There can be no comparison to the innate nature of human to the work he does............

raajks · 12th April 2007, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaliAtenza

i just wanted ask (and not start a flame war)...US

I have worked with some pretty smart people who are Americans ....and I must say when you work in that level ......you do forget race..and start appreciating the level of intelligence that we share....

Having said that, I feel that the bill only highlights a sense of protection to the existing American citizens and offers a sense of security with their job...... It also imposes restrictions on talents that could go global .........

Some known facts are Indian and predominantly (Asians) have put their mind, thoughts and intelligence to contribute to the strength of America.... (NASA, SOFTWARE, CARs and designs...... Contributing factors of US economy)

Having reached a certain threshold...it appears that they are shutting the door now......

srishiva · 12th April 2007, 10:00

You cant say Indians are good in math and science just like that. The problem is we have more numbers (average or good or bad) than America. That is it. And also we work hard since we don't have much. The Americans irrespective of whether they are in I.T or not have something and prefer to enjoy more.

w 12 · 12th April 2007, 10:12

[quote=CaliAtenza;411697 "oh americans are so dumb", "the indian worker can do in a day what takes an american a week", "americans arent productive", [/quote]

A quick glance through the List fo Nobel Prize winners in Pure Sciences , technology , Economy for past 50 years should be an eye opener..

Also the list of pathbreaking patented techmologies / products which have dramatically changed our world will have a significant american presence.

Sometimes we Indians tend to forget that what americans outsource most of the time is low level , clerical jobs which they feel can be done by someone else at a lower cost..so that they can use their highly paid employees in cutting edge technologies.

WHat is working in favour of India is relatively low wages and large numbers of english speaking graduates / engineers ..

12th April 2007, 04:16	#1
CaliAtenza BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: LAX-SNA-BFL-BLR Posts: 321 Thanked: 18 Times	Are IT people arrogant?? i just wanted ask (and not start a flame war)...because it seems many of the guys on here are in the IT industry of some capacity. My uncle and his friends are in the US on H1B visas to do various projects. My uncle works with covansis as do a few of the other people. Well i had a chance to meet all of these people this past weekend and we were all standing around dicussing stuff when the topic of H1B visas came up. The story is that a bill has been presented in the US Congress that would cut down on the number of H1B visas and put the American Workers first, before considering foreign workers to do the same jobs. I took the position of devil's advocate...it seemed to piss everyone off because they all seemed to throw a tantrum..as in "oh americans are so dumb", "the american financial/IT industry would collapse in a day if indians werent around", "the indian worker can do in a day what takes an american a week", "americans arent productive", and so on so forth. At least to me, i was a bit offended, being an american...i mean, at least respect the country and your colleagues that you have come to work with. Is this sentiment shared among IT guys in india, or is just something that happens when they go work overseas..in any country...not just the US
	() Thanks

12th April 2007, 04:40	#2
low_bass_makker Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Faridabad Posts: 6,815 Thanked: 305 Times View My Garage	I dont have any theory here....but a simple one line thing.....the IQ of a indian is a bit high when compared to a average american.......this is because to survive in india for one`s bread and butter is quite difficult when compared to america....which make indian a work hard worker and have more experience......but some americans are great people....so no heart feelings just my two words......
	() Thanks

12th April 2007, 06:14	#3
condor Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Speed-brkr City Posts: 15,864 Thanked: 16,008 Times View My Garage	Just that we all do somethings better than others - we are better than Americans in some respects, but there are things that I would love to see Indians do in a way the Americans do. We have contributed a lot to the US-A, while US-A has in turn given us quite a bit. It's reciprocal, and wouldn't have grown to todays' proportions otherwise.
	() Thanks

12th April 2007, 08:29	#7
sajo Senior - BHPian Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Pune Posts: 2,625 Thanked: 1,153 Times	Just consider the fact that a huge chunk of all the major innovations/inventions in the last century are attributed to Americans. Its just that Americans can afford to be more complacent than us, it will take us a while to get there.
	() Thanks

12th April 2007, 08:49	#8
DriverR BHPian Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Hyderabad Posts: 414 Thanked: 526 Times	I think to generally use the term "IT people are arrogant" would not be correct. From my experience, my take on this is there are some Indians who go abroad and think they have become kings! Yes, these people can be called arrogant. But these people can be from all walks of life, not neccessarily IT. At the same time there are many Indians who go abroad and learn from their experience and become more worldly-wise. These people are not at all arrogant and they are wonderful people who have a more balanced and wholesome outlook to life.
	() Thanks

12th April 2007, 08:58	#9
spadival Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Melbourne, AU Posts: 1,773 Thanked: 26 Times View My Garage	Yes.. The vast majority of them are arrogant.. The reality is that Indian IT industry is just a tiny fraction of the global IT industry. Sure, we are the fastest growing among the lot, but majority of the growth is from low end work.
	() Thanks

12th April 2007, 09:29	#11
tsk1979 Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: San Jose, CA Posts: 23,717 Thanked: 22,821 Times View My Garage	Don't thing its anything to do with competence here There are two factors 1. Number of engineers in the US were lesser than the demand 2. Indian labour is cheap. As for IQ,good worker-bad worker, you will find idiots and genuises in very race and country. If there is any difference which I have seen w.r.t Americans and Indians(Migrated H1B) it is the fact that an Indian is ready to work 80 hours a week and disregard his family and personal life for work. Work life balance as a concept exists for lesser number of Indians than americans. Surely there are some americans too who put work over life, but their percentage is smaller than indians. Here I have seen people working on friday evening till 2am saturday morning. Parking lots are pretty populated at these odd times in India, but in the US you will atmost find 2-3 cars and they will be Indians!
	() Thanks

12th April 2007, 09:30	#12
raajks BHPian Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: BLR Posts: 578 Thanked: 119 Times View My Garage	Arrogance is an attitude!!! It does not restrict itself by what work people do........ Given the fact the IT folks that get a handsome pay does not make them more or less arrogant...... There can be no comparison to the innate nature of human to the work he does............
	() Thanks

12th April 2007, 10:00	#14
srishiva Senior - BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 4,375 Thanked: 2,256 Times	You cant say Indians are good in math and science just like that. The problem is we have more numbers (average or good or bad) than America. That is it. And also we work hard since we don't have much. The Americans irrespective of whether they are in I.T or not have something and prefer to enjoy more.
	() Thanks

12th April 2007, 10:12	#15
w 12 BHPian Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: bangalore Posts: 402 Thanked: 26 Times	[quote=CaliAtenza;411697 "oh americans are so dumb", "the indian worker can do in a day what takes an american a week", "americans arent productive", [/quote] A quick glance through the List fo Nobel Prize winners in Pure Sciences , technology , Economy for past 50 years should be an eye opener.. Also the list of pathbreaking patented techmologies / products which have dramatically changed our world will have a significant american presence. Sometimes we Indians tend to forget that what americans outsource most of the time is low level , clerical jobs which they feel can be done by someone else at a lower cost..so that they can use their highly paid employees in cutting edge technologies. WHat is working in favour of India is relatively low wages and large numbers of english speaking graduates / engineers ..
	() Thanks