[EightSix]

Hi BHPians,

We need to get some pet dogs for our farmhouse, where we are for the last 10+ months.

Now, my parents — who are not dog people have agreed to getting us pups — have put forth some requirements.

Food Habits

A primary requirement is that we are a vegetarian family, so we want a dog which is practically an omnivore. We want him to hunt down insects and other small creatures in our farm, at the same time, we are hesitant to getting non vegetarian food in our house.

Sure — dog food is okay, but again we don’t want to spend a lot. (since we plan on getting three dogs for three of us siblings)

I have read about people in the west who raise their dogs by giving an all vegan diet. I want to know your views on this.

If they eat what we eat, then there would be no wastage of food either.

Purpose

We have cows and threat of a tiger. (a tiger roams our farm at times and visits the stream adjacent to drink water — seen pawprints just this month in our farm, and frequently spotted by neighbours.)

There is also the threat of thieves during the mango/cashew season.

Which is why we need some good watchdogs. We don’t want breeds that only eat and do nothing. A couple of strong, agile and loud dogs with a sharp nose would serve the purpose. They should also be active, obedient and friendly with us.

The ideal dog

Our farmhand has some crossbreed Indian dogs who are so obedient that even if he doesn’t feed them all day, they would follow him on his mile-long walk to our farm and then stay with him throughout, like from 7 am to 5pm. He doesn’t have to afford expensive dog food either. He just eats their leftover meals (they are a non-vegetarian family) etc.

My dad says, if that’s the kind of dogs he gets then he would buy them. Or else not.

Mom’s say

My mom’s only requirements are that they have to be clean, and they have to look out for themselves, they should not need too much of petting. And they should not get sick often with respect to our clime.

Other Questions

Then there is also the choice between male and female dogs. Which would be the better gender for our requirements?

Us kids, we want puppies. But between grown dogs and cute little pups, is their any specific reason to choose one over the other? Can we train older dogs too? What is the right age to buy dogs?

In Goa summer climate, is a foreign breed a good choice?

Pardon me for asking these silly novice questions, I’m gonna be a first time dog owner and need counsel of experienced pet owners & experts on TBHP.

Purchase and Availability:

Before we purchase a dog ourselves, there are some local puppies which our neighbors etc are giving away.

Instead of buying, we can adopt these.

But then there is not a complete chance that these would turn out to be like our farmhand’s — although they would be used to our habitat - I.e. food and stuff. Some of them are inferior, stray breeds and methinks they would grow up to be really dirty dogs.

We are therefore looking at some good dog breeds. Our location is Goa. As much as I want you to help me out with those earlier questions, I would appreciate if you would tell me where I can obtain these dogs from, how and how much would it cost? Is there any sort of ‘pre-delivery inspection’ before buying a pet? How do I know if it is a good breed?

Thanks!
EightSix

[Nav-i-gator]

I will get straight to the point (s):

1. Dogs will be living in a farmhouse - that will solve a lot of issues with dogs. Dogs love open fields and will be happy living in a farm house.

2. But, dogs do not take care of themselves. Dogs can't keep themselves clean. And you have to invest time to groom and train them.

3. On food - non-veg based diet is preferrable and dogs can have allergies to a lot of vegetarian foods. Please get in touch with a vet or someone with long experience of rearing dogs.

4. Dogs crave for friendship with their owners. Multiple dogs will fare OK even if left alone but it is still better to have them socialized and trained. Otherwise, you might find it difficult to rein them in.

5. For your (and your family's) needs, it is best to get Indie breeds. They are hardy, immune to minor health and environmental issues, are fiercely loyal and docile for owners.

6. In case you go for Pure breeds, may be herding dogs would be better. They would guard the cows from wild animals and would be friendly with other pets/farm animals.

[Durango Dude]

Originally Posted by EightSix

We have cows and threat of a tiger. (a tiger roams our farm at times and visits the stream adjacent to drink water — seen pawprints just this month in our farm, and frequently spotted by neighbours.)

There is also the threat of thieves during the mango/cashew season.

Which is why we need some good watchdogs. We don’t want breeds that only eat and do nothing. A couple of strong, agile and loud dogs with a sharp nose would serve the purpose. They should also be active, obedient and friendly with us.

The ideal dog

Our farmhand has some crossbreed Indian dogs who are so obedient that even if he doesn’t feed them all day, they would follow him on his mile-long walk to our farm and then stay with him throughout, like from 7 am to 5pm. He doesn’t have to afford expensive dog food either. He just eats their leftover meals (they are a non-vegetarian family) etc.

I'm not a pet person either but your threat perception that includes a tiger that visits the place is serious enough and what you need probably are a pack of lean and mean hounds. I really don't agree that since you're vegetarian you won't feed the dogs what they need. Probably your farm hand would know better about the dogs he has to serve alongside him.

[Amit_breakfree]

Originally Posted by EightSix

Now, my parents — who are not dog people have agreed to getting us pups — have put forth some requirements.

Just one thought before you get started with the process. A few months ago there was a post on Team-BHP itself about a guy who got a dog after getting permission from his wife, however, after getting the dog, his wife was not able to stay under the same roof with the dog.

So before you finalize and bring home a dog/dogs, maybe you can try and keep a couple of your friend's dogs over the weekend or 1/2 weeks to check if your parents/family are happy with the decision. This will be beneficial for your family and the dog as well in the long run. I am suggesting this as you have mentioned that you guys are not dog people.

All the best for your hunt.

[NPV]

I think having dogs is much more of a commitment and will need more "connect" to build that relationship over the years. Given that you have quite a few constraints, I would suggest you look to invest in some technology to improve security like cameras, sensors on the boundary etc before you think about dogs as the (only) solution.

If you must have dogs, then asking your farmhand to care for them (in case they need to be fed meat) would be a better idea. Also, the dogs need not be the indoors kind and can be housed in kennel(s) outside the home in the farm itself. Simplest in my opinion would be the local indie dogs.

[Engine_Roars]

Not to discourage you but your needs, wants & commitment that you are willing to show are not in sync. I might be wrong here but reading your entire post did not gave me the confidence that you as a family are willing to take this responsibility of 3 kids, who will stay kids till they cross the bridge.

I would strongly advise against getting expensive breeds for now. See if you can adopt a stray pup. Local Indian breeds can thrive without needing too much of support or care & can eat anything that you have to offer.

Please do not buy 3 pups, I beg, If I may. It will most definitely not end well for those pups. Start with one, if you absolutely have to and then see what is best for all of you including the dogs.

[androdev]

For a tiger threat, I would opt for fence/trench type of measures.

OT: Please post some pictures of your farm

[ebonho]

Not even a huge Turkish Kangal can take on a tiger (I'm assuming you are talking about a real tiger here and not a wild cat).

One swipe of a tiger is known to break a buffalo's neck. A dog will not even be a very tasty appetiser.

Cheers, Doc

[88_TANK_88]

Shop local and adopt if possible

All vegan diet is a no-no.

More than 1 dogs is good call as they would not depend solely on the master for play time and exercise as much.

Try and feed them by yourself as often as possible. That creates a special bond. Fix the timing and place for feeding, try to stick to the schedule.

Be strict but dont be abusive. Training by reward gives better results than training by punishment.

Pack mentality is deep rooted and they should recognize you/family member as alpha.(hence the feeding and training)

Dogs learn to reciprocate and renact master's behaviour. Specially towards visitors.

Hello from my boys back home

[gkveda]

Living with pets should be primarily out of affection and not based on need. But from your words, i see that you are looking to groom a pet out of need.

Based on one of my friends experience (even he was from pure veg family and just wanted to get work done by a dog), I am suggesting you, Its going to be trouble to both dog and the owner.

The entire family struggled to continue with the dog. It became nightmare for them. It was like hot ghee in mouth. They could neither swallow nor spit.

Dog became really weak because it didn't get the required nutrition.

I may be going overboard but, it is only because I have seen the pity state of the dog when he handed over the dog to some unknown person

[lawdgawd]

Sorry to say this, but you do not seem ready to handle the responsibility of having one dog, let alone three.

That is not a bad thing. Dogs are not for everyone.

Labourers' dogs, farmhands' dogs etc usually automatically follow a pattern due to their close interaction with them from morning to night. The dogs slowly assume certain jobs and responsibilities. This works well, but only if you are willing to invest in the close interaction. That does not seem to be the case.

Two, guarding. Guard dogs do not attack, they guard. Attack dogs attack. Guard dogs have good sense of smell and hearing, but it also means they bark a lot. They are territorial, suspicious and a big fearful often - which is why they bark often. Dogs can ruin your sleep easily by barking through the night, as there are lots of movements that make them alert and fearful at night. You would end up shouting at them, which would confuse them as they are doing what comes to them naturally. And even attack dogs probably won't go anywhere near a tiger. They know the risk is too much. And attack dogs need a lot of training, or they won't know who to attack and who is a friend.

Cleanliness - dogs are not clean by human standards. Rolling around in ash or mud does not do much to them. We on the other hand hate that.

Breeds - Indian breeds or even the regular Indie mixed stray dog is the least work when it comes to maintenance. Almost all foreign breeds have more health issues in India than Indian breeds. They also have shorter life spans, in general. There are a lot more vet visits with a foreign breed. Also, in my experience, foreign breeds need a lot more attention and love than Indian breeds (though all dogs need it to some extent).

Food - Yes, dogs can be pure vegetarian but this is tougher for foreign breeds. It might be easier to oursource cooking for them to someone else. And such a condition means one has to focus more on them and their diet - which goes against your earlier desire to be not too involved.

As someone else said, tech based solutions might be a lot less of a headache for you than dogs.

[ashokrajagopal]

Ask your farm helper to find a couple of indie pups. If possible have a look at the parents and ask the owners if they bark and are generally courageous.

Most Indian dogs are generally healthy.
As to character, in my personal experience, about 70% of them are good watch dogs, and are good with general dog stuff like barking at strangers and chasing cats away. Of course, they would bark at a tiger, but what's the point ?

If you want active, energetic dogs, forget about complicated Vegan diets.
Dogs need their meat. Without meat either you complicate your life, or worse still, you complicate your dog's life.

Ensure there is enough space for them to run around, a good spot for them to sleep either inside or outside your house, and a Vet's service in reasonable distance.

[2000rpm]

Let me try to explain you in Automotive terms.

What you need is a Beater Hardcore Offroader! Which is a Paradox in itself. The purpose of the vehicle (hardcore offroading), will mean that the car will require a certain level of maintenance and pamper, so that it can do its job well.

Your needs require a dog to be intimidating but you want to feed them Veg diet. You also do not want to spend too much time in maintenance.

Hence, the most suitable breed for you are Indian Local dogs (read Gypsy and Thar ).

• They require low maintenance
• They can live outdoors comfortably (none of the european breeds can do that)
• They are made for India (read hot weather)

P.S. They will never be as capable as a Jeep or Land Rover but will be the most effective solution.
P.S. They will have no glamour either but will get the job done (Job refers to detracting thieves and not fighting a tiger)

[keroo1099]

My sincere advise is don't get a dog/dogs based on your list of conditions.

It's been mentioned above, but I will repeat again.

Looking after a dog is a life long commitment, and it takes effort to get a dog to trust and love you, and this what a lot of first time owners don't understand.

[Amarjeetphukan]

Everyone has explained in explicit details the pros and cons of getting dogs. My only request to you is to adopt them and not buy. And please adopt them only after you and your family agree to not abandon them later. There are enough dogs that get abandoned so lets not add to that number.