[am1m]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

But just because the effort there is wanting should not stop us from doing project cheetah.

Absolutely sir, it is good that the introduction of the Cheetah is being attempted. But at the same time I think it is also good that questions are being raised about the project and it's relation with other projects as well.

My main grouse is about how the same objections that the Govt of GJ raised about distributing the Asiatic Lion species to the same area now identified for the Cheetah have somehow been overcome for this project. State pride should surely not come in the way of preserving the Pride (of Lions). I think it is ok for the public to raise those questions and not just have concerns swept aside in the name of being positive and optimistic.

Hopeful that the Cheetah does adapt and flourish here. But also hoping that the scrutiny and questions arising out of this project will prompt the Gir Lions to also be granted a safe haven in some other part of the country to create a backup population that will safeguard their future. And certainly the two projects need not be mutually exclusive.

[Sandy Damodaran]

So, this is going from crazy to bizarre. We have introduced a alien species under the garb of "Re-Introduction" now there are talks/rumours about introducing Zebra's and Giraffes.


https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/...w/94274015.cms

[srini1785]

I am not a wildlife expert/enthusiast so no comments. However, this whole "Re/introduction" of species reminded me of this {happy} success story which has gone a bit far:

PABLO ESCOBAR'S HIPPOS

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56011594

[Arun Varma]

https://www.newsclick.in/cheetahs-na...t-ravi-chellam

An insightful read!

Quoting from the article:

"Science-based, logical, consultative, participatory, and inclusive decision-making will ensure that our wildlife conservation efforts deliver on-the-ground results that sustain over time. We need far greater transparency and accountability in such matters."

[ads11]

Originally Posted by srini1785

I am not a wildlife expert/enthusiast so no comments. However, this whole "Re/introduction" of species reminded me of this {happy} success story which has gone a bit far:

PABLO ESCOBAR'S HIPPOS

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-56011594

I'm glad you brought that up. Those damn hippos are an ecological disaster - a species that was never native to South America, with no natural pressure on their growth. And thanks to the public and a few opportunistic politicians seeing them more as Gloria from the Madagascar movies, the poor zoologists and biologists aren't able to properly cull the lot of them.

The big difference with the cheetah reintroduction initiative spoken about here is that those hippos were never a species that existed outside the African continent. It's a revival project in the case of the cheetah, in terms of reviving a population in a zone where it was previously extant.

Success or failure, this will be a keenly watched project, beyond the mere political optics, for having major lessons in terms of how future such projects in other places with other species will proceed.

Originally Posted by am1m

My main grouse is about how the same objections that the Govt of GJ raised about distributing the Asiatic Lion species to the same area now identified for the Cheetah have somehow been overcome for this project. State pride should surely not come in the way of preserving the Pride (of Lions). I think it is ok for the public to raise those questions and not just have concerns swept aside in the name of being positive and optimistic.

The more I hear about the selfish stonewalling of the Gujarat govt. wrt the Asiatic lions and the ramifications it had on say a swap for Iranian cheetahs, the more peeved I get. What baffles me is how come PM Modi, cloaked as he is in near invulnerable political power and leeway, doesn't overrule whatever regional Gujarat based objection might exist, to progress moving portions of the Gir lions to other reserves in India and maybe even reopening the process for the trade with Iran for eg. I wasn't aware Indira Gandhi was a driving force behind Project Tiger but the lesson I see is that it's clear that when backed by a behemoth politician on the national scene, these projects can get the impetus they need to succeed, blowing away any obstacles they might face lower down the bureaucracy.

PM Modi's administration have been canny in trying to exploit avenues for soft power for India. I'm not sure how aware others are but China for eg have used giant pandas over the years very much as a soft power tool of their wider geopolitical agenda (I mean why not - a nation state makes use of all the tools at its disposal to advance its own interests). Working with say Iran on swapping cheetahs and lions as part of conservation efforts it precisely the kind of soft power win where politicians get their much needed positive optics, diplomats don't need to worry about it necessarily falling foul of any sanctions regime, and the public benefit from the fact that ecological conservation wins out. Just a thought.

[dailydriver]

Though not exactly related to the topic being discussed here, this eighty plus year old video showcases how Cheetahs were domesticated by the royalty and used almost akin to hunting dogs

https://youtu.be/NevenDIp95A

PS: The contents may not be to everyone's taste; viewer discretion advised.

[bhargav2015]

As an Environment professional having worked in the domain for about 13 years now, it is almost ironic that when we think about wildlife and legislation surrounding it, it is ALWAYS from a human centered perspective. Face it, AGRICULTURE and FARMING are THE GREATEST THREAT to our FORESTS and ECOSYSTEMS; more than industrial and vehicular pollution will EVER be.
I think Adivasis are the original folks who belong to that land, but mind you, this does NOT include Adivasis who are no more hunter-gatherers. I believe all forest encroachments, irrespective of the nature of encroachment, needs to be cleared out. I celebrated when this was done in Kudremukh when it was declared a National Tiger Reserve. Forests and their buffer zones must HAVE NO HUMAN SETTLEMENTS. Period.
So I have no symtpathies for those crop growers who decided to encroach forest land to grow sugarcane of some cash crop [coffee/ tea et al] which has no ecosystem value. And they have the audacity to shout that elephants destroyed their crops??
THEY DESTROYED ELEPHANT HABITATS FOR THEIR PERSONAL GAIN!!

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[V.Narayan]

One horned rhino population crosses 4000+ mark

https://www.deccanherald.com/nationa...k-1147070.html

Decisive action against poaching, in conjunction with habitat creation, has helped increase the population of the one horned rhino increased to 4014. This large mammal is to be found mainly in India and in small lots in Nepal & Bhutan. The rejuvenation of their population from a low of 2454 10 years ago is in contrast to the stagnant population situation that surrounds its cousin in Africa & Indonesia.

Sharing this in response to the several posts on this thread that the Govt of India, the Forest Service et al are not capable of protecting and reviving a species. Granted that the sub-species of Cheetah brought from Namibia is not endemic to India but that should not mean we cannot try and after trying we cannot succeed. Sharing this article to counter those who questioned the competence and integrity of our Forest Service. The fact that the occasion was used as a PR exercise should not detract from its intrinsic worth.

Originally Posted by bhargav2015

As an Environment professional having worked in the domain for about 13 years now, it is almost ironic that when we think about wildlife and legislation surrounding it, it is ALWAYS from a human centered perspective.
So I have no sympathies for those crop growers who decided to encroach forest land to grow sugarcane of some cash crop [coffee/ tea et al] which has no ecosystem value. And they have the audacity to shout that elephants destroyed their crops??

Dear @bhargav2015, My respect to you as an environment professional. I assume you work in the field. First thank you for what you do to help our ecology. I can empathize where you are coming from and the causes for your anger. Unfortunately with an over-population of 140 crores we need to find better ways for the villagers too to be able to carve out their living from the same limited land. India, sadly, has not only a massive population but is also the most densely populated large country after Bangladesh. No easy solutions here. All of us most of all me are responsible for this state of affairs. That poor villager is merely the tip of the arrow and gets the blame. Actually my air conditioned study, constant usage of the internet, the two big cars I use, the 4 flights a month I travel on are all culprits for the fact that the poor elephant clashes with the hapless villager.

[bhargav2015]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

One horned rhino population crosses 4000+ mark

https://www.deccanherald.com/nationa...k-1147070.html

Sharing this in response to the several posts on this thread that the Govt of India, the Forest Service et al are not capable of protecting and reviving a species. Granted that the sub-species of Cheetah brought from Namibia is not endemic to India but that should not mean we cannot try and after trying we cannot succeed. Sharing this article to counter those who questioned the competence and integrity of our Forest Service. The fact that the occasion was used as a PR exercise should not detract from its intrinsic worth.

Dear @bhargav2015, My respect to you as an environment professional. I assume you work in the field. First thank you for what you do to help our ecology. I can empathize where you are coming from and the causes for your anger. Unfortunately with an over-population of 140 crores we need to find better ways for the villagers too to be able to carve out their living from the same limited land. India, sadly, has not only a massive population but is also the most densely populated large country after Bangladesh. No easy solutions here.

Namaste Sir, the only way we can do that is by carving out forest land as absolute NO-GO AREAS. Make sure anybody living in designated forests don't have access to electricity, road infrastructure and water connection. That way, only hunter-gatherers who live 100% in sync with nature can survive. Or obscenely rich eccentric folks who want to stay away from society.
Make sure we have armed forest patrolling.

[PS: I've worked largely in the Environment divisions of MNC's where my job is to minimize environmental impacts. Small time with Regulatory Authprities too. Unfortunately, it often seems like a losing battle.]

Then, we make sure people are confined to urban and semi urban areas where access to health and public infrastructure are easier to provide. We need to stop spreading pur population horizontally. Once forests are safe, we build up vertically. For this we need proper planning and implementation: 2 things we sorely lack in our country. As a rhetoric, we can develop the most sophisticated tech systems in the world but not develop our public infrastructure in an orderly fashion.

[fhdowntheline]

Originally Posted by bhargav2015

Then, we make sure people are confined to urban and semi urban areas where access to health and public infrastructure are easier to provide. We need to stop spreading pur population horizontally. Once forests are safe, we build up vertically. For this we need proper planning and implementation: 2 things we sorely lack in our country. As a rhetoric, we can develop the most sophisticated tech systems in the world but not develop our public infrastructure in an orderly fashion.

I am looked upon as almost a pariah when I echo these very sentiments even within my family. I have always held the view that people need to be brought out of the forests for the rest of the species to thrive. This whole human-animal ecological balance just makes for good optics , nothing else. Another thing that plagues our Indian landscape is the lack of good infrastructure in tier-3 cities. This has resulted in our top-10 metros becoming a gargantuan steel and concrete mess. I am stressing tier 2-3 cities because those will be likely the closest places where villages have access to, and people would have employment opportunities. If only a moratorium is placed on further development of commercial/residential projects in the top-10 cities for the next 5 years, people will move over to the next lot of cities. Just quoting Pune's example, it has become a mega blob of unplanned urban infrastructure, offering nothing special now except relatively less costly housing compared to Mumbai. It need not have been so had there been adequate focus in the last 10 years on cities like Ahmednagar, Aurangabad, Solapur, Satara etc. But no, all that was done was to exploit the Mumbai-Pune "industrial corridor". The result is that they are now digging out enhancements and drilling through more mountain rock to decrease the time travelled on the E-way by 30 minutes. To me it sounds like Marie Antoinette level of elitism.

[Anikesh11]

Kuno was developed specifically for relocation of asiatic lions but now we have an non native cheetahs who by all parameters have poor survivability and unlikely to thrive here
Now this place can't be used to introduce any other predator since they will easily overrun these cheetah
In my opinion its a very poor decision done only for optics
Need to move lions into MP and possibly beyond

[bhargav2015]

Originally Posted by fhdowntheline

I am looked upon as almost a pariah when I echo these very sentiments even within my family. I have always held the view that people need to be brought out of the forests for the rest of the species to thrive. This whole human-animal ecological balance just makes for good optics , nothing else. Another thing that plagues our Indian landscape is the lack of good infrastructure in tier-3 cities. This has resulted in our top-10 metros becoming a gargantuan steel and concrete mess. I am stressing tier 2-3 cities because those will be likely the closest places where villages have access to, and people would have employment opportunities. If only a moratorium is placed on further development of commercial/residential projects in the top-10 cities for the next 5 years, people will move over to the next lot of cities.

I have had a former friend [I say former because I verbally abused the cr@p outta' him over this very topic] who graduated from ISB with a post graduate degree in Management who defended multi-lane highways through our pristine forests, tiger habitats and ecosensitive zones as "ESSENTIAL FOR DEVELOPMENT". The accidents taking away lives of animals [predators and other beings which are essential for the health of ecosystem] are horrific. Not to mention, it endangers the life of motorists too.
But without mincing words, if I had to choose between saving lives of animals versus humans, it would be ANIMALS every single time without reservations on who the person is [my family hates me for saying this out loud].
Development be damned, I want LIFE other than humans to flourish in our land.

[DigitalOne]

African cheetahs at Kuno National Park kill cheetal, make history

Source

After 51 days in India, including two days in a special prey-stocked enclosure where they were released inside Madhya Pradesh’s Kuno National Park, two cheetahs from Africa made history by making their first kill during the intervening night of November 6-7.

The two male cheetahs, ‘Freddy’ and ‘Elton’, had been released from quarantine on the evening of November 5 into the bigger enclosure that is stocked with natural prey base. They brought down a cheetal stag (spotted deer)

[DetectiveMiles]

Cheetah, brought from Namibia gives birth to 4 cubs! last week one of the Cheetah had died due to illness.

News: https://www.hindustantimes.com/india...083518439.html

[V.Narayan]

India’s tiger population up from 2,967 in 2018 to 3,167 in 2022

https://www.msn.com/en-in/news/other...bf70be70&ei=12


India, with just about 2.4 per cent of the world’s land contributes about 8 per cent of the known global biodiversity. Today, India is also the largest tiger range country in the entire world with a little over 75,000 sq kms of protected sanctuaries for tigers. Further, with about 30,000 elephants, India has the largest range of Asiatic elephants. Similarly, India has the largest range of 3,000 single-horned rhinoceros population. This apart, India is the only country to hold the population of Asiatic Lions and their population has gone up from 525 in 2015 to 675 in 2020. The leopard population in India has also gone up by 60 per cent in just four years.

There are estimated to be between 4744 to 5074 tigers in the wild globally. Of these around ~64% live in India all thanks to Project Tiger launched in 1973.

File photo below of a then 3-year old tiger who recorded the longest walk recorded of a tiger of 1300 kms probably in search of a mate. This was in 2019 in Maharashtra. File name of Tiger C1. It carries a radio collar.