[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by veyron_head

But my question is why shouldn't I use present tense here, as in "I wish the bank opens at 8". What is wrong with this usage?

This will work in a one time event, like, I wish it rains today.

Not for perpetual events, e.g. I wish sun rose every day at 10 AM .

[Thad E Ginathom]

I wish it wouldrain today.

I hope it rains today.

It's time you left ... is fine! Again, technically, I am not sure why, but it is.

It may be that some of the things that we are discussing come under the headings of usage and idiom: it is just the way British-English people put it. Scholars, though, may be able to explain.

Here's an example of someone writing something they did not understand, and thereby making up rubbish. The New Indian Express (which, like Shakespeare is trying to re-write the language) commented that a politican probably had something else under his sleeve. Why would anyone have anything under their sleeve? The saying is up their sleeve, and that is obvious if thought about!

[Ricci]

Originally Posted by veyron_head

Thanks Esteem_Lover, mallumowgli, & Thad.
So, why is 'I wish the bank opens at 8 AM' is wrong?

Also, what you do you think about the 'Its time you left' example?

The first implies a regular occurrence or habit - that of the bank opening at 8 AM , but if the bank did actually open at 8 Am everyday, you wouldn't be hoping it would open at 8 , would you ? In effect , you are wishing for something to change from past events.

The second sounds right, it refers to a premise ( that you have already left ), an event that should have happened by this time but has not - similar to saying : it's time you (past action) something. Whereas , the statement "It's time for you to leave, implies the possibility of timely action still exists i.e., it's time for you to catch your flight (that is to say it's not too late and you haven't missed the flight ).

now a question from my side : English absorbs lot of other foreign language words - Latin , German, French , and I particularly have no understanding of French, it is very tricky to pronounce borrowed French words correctly the first time I read them but have not heard them - such as rendezvous , croissant and so on. Any pointers where I can pick the right pronunciation for such terms ?

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Ricci

English absorbs lot of other foreign language words - Latin , German, French , and I particularly have no understanding of French, it is very tricky to pronounce borrowed French words correctly the first time I read them but have not heard them - such as rendezvous , croissant and so on. Any pointers where I can pick the right pronunciation for such terms ?

Learn French :-)

Rendezvous - Ron-dey-voo
Croissant - Crew-a-saun

One thing to remember in French is that if 's' is the last letter of a word it's not pronounced - you can see that in Rendezvous above. (likewise for 't' also, I think - but can't think of examples)

RSVP - Respondez S'il Vous Plait (Reply if you please).
Here again in Vous (You), since 's' is the last letter it's not pronounced.

Paris - again pronounced as Paari in French
Champs-Elysees - Shaus Eleesay
Mardi Gras-Maardi Gra

If something follows the 's', then the 's' is pronounced. I am not able to remember a good example - so I am giving the example of a name
Francois (boy's name) - Fra-su-aah
Francoise (girl's name) - Fra-su-aas

More words
noir - nu-aar (eg. Drakkar Noir, Film Noir)

[anupmathur]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

...commented that a politican probably had something else under his sleeve. ...

Haha, that is very similar to what I came across the other day at another forum: "...rib splittingly hilarious"!
It can either be 'rib ticklingly hilarious' or it can be 'gut splittingly hilarious', but surely not rib splittingly hilarious.

Originally Posted by Ricci

...you wouldn't be hoping it would open at 8 , would you ? ....
.....
.....
Any pointers where I can pick the right pronunciation for such terms ?

You shouldn't be leaving a space before the question mark! Not in the English language; maybe in the French!

[Sam Kapasi]

You're funny. First you say

Originally Posted by carboy

One thing to remember in French is that if 's' is the last letter of a word it's not pronounced - you can see that in Rendezvous above. (likewise for 't' also, I think - but can't think of examples)

And then in the very next sentence you give an example with plait. lol.

Originally Posted by carboy

RSVP - Respondez S'il Vous Plait (Reply if you please).

And I'm quite certain it isn't respondez, RSVP is definitely

Répondez s'il vous plaît


But why split ribs over French? This is an English thread

[vivekiny2k]

from my limited knowledge, all consonants at the end of a word are silent in french, except c,r,f,l,b,k, and q

but if they are followed by another word beginning with a vowel, they are pronounced with that vowel.

e.g. Thomas would be thoma
but Thomas et jacob would be thoma je jacob (s pronounced as j here)

I made this example up for illustration.

EDIT: excellent resource for pronunciation, but read basics first or it will confuse you more.
http://text-to-speech.imtranslator.net/TTSText

more EDIT:

Paris - again pronounced as Paari in French

more like Paaghi. 'r' has a very difficult pronunciation in french.

[carboy]

Originally Posted by Sam Kapasi

And I'm quite certain it isn't respondez, RSVP is definitely

Répondez s'il vous plaît

Yeah :-) I thought of the French Repondez and the English meaning Respond and mixed both.

[vnabhi]

Originally Posted by Thad E Ginathom

I agree with all your examples, but,

I wish they opened the bank at 8 AM --- is a way of saying, "I wish that the bank's opening hours were 8 am..."

It just feels right!

"When do the banks open?"

"They open at 9.00am"

"Oh! I wish [that] they opened at 8.00am!"

when left out, the "that" is understood. Despite the -ed, it is not really past tense, it is ongoing (present continuous? I forget the technical terms).

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

This will work in a one time event, like, I wish it rains today.

Not for perpetual events, e.g. I wish sun rose every day at 10 AM .

Can't agree more with the above viewpoints.

By the way, I have a doubt on an old saying:-

'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing; drink deep or taste not the Castalian spring'

Some people say it is 'Pierrian' spring, and not 'Castalian spring'.

Any clues?

[carboy]

Originally Posted by vivekiny2k

more like Paaghi. 'r' has a very difficult pronunciation in french.

I am pretty sure it's not 'Paaghi'. They have a more throaty pronunciation to their 'r' but it doesn't sound anything like 'g'. I have heard native french speaking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Paris1.ogg

[vivekiny2k]

Originally Posted by carboy

I am pretty sure it's not 'Paaghi'. They have a more throaty pronunciation to their 'r' but it doesn't sound anything like 'g'. I have heard native french speaking.

yes it's not paaghi, it's more "like" paaghi

[Ricci]

Thanks Carboy, these words I gave as reference having heard them before , thank Hollywood movies ; only don't know how one pronounces the expanded RSVP. I was asking more in terms of a pattern/rule to learn French pronunciation , I have learnt German and so it's easier for me get German word pronunciation right , but never learnt any French ,or Spanish, but now I know (San) Jose is pronounced as "Ho-zay" and Mallorca is pronounced "May-orka" , just as Gallardo is pronounced "Gayaardo"

Sorry for deviating from English ! Just that English borrows from other languages and those non-English terms are now commonplace, so I thought it'd be a good idea to also bring up frequently used foreign language terms in English.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by vnabhi

'A little knowledge is a dangerous thing; drink deep or taste not the Castalian spring'

Some people say it is 'Pierrian' spring, and not 'Castalian spring'.

Any clues?

No clue at all --- because this is the first time I have ever heard the second half! This would have to be a quotation, so I would google!

As to Paris, we have to "thank" the complete inability of my British forbears to either cope with or accept local forms. At least, in this case, they only messed with the pronunciation and not the spelling! Hollywood may not have helped, but it was the Brits who started this foolish tradition.

[comfortablynumb]

I don't remember when, but I'd heard that there are only 5 words in English that end in "dous". However, I can only think of 4 - hazardous, horrendous, tremendous, stupendous. For the life of me, I can't think of what the fifth one is. Any help, ??

Cheers,
Vikram

[suddenshiv]

I think there are only 4, and you got all of them.