[shankar.balan]

This is like that old Amar Chitra Katha story about the King and his Barber and those 7 Jars of Gold. That 7th Jar is a bottomless pit which can never be filled. It stands for ‘Desire’ which can never be quenched.

I don't want to preach here because Im simply not qualified to do so, being as much of a participant, as anyone else, in this rat-race. But I am and have always been, a reluctant participant. Forced to do so because of various circumstances, when I would really rather just sit and read a good book.

A wise chap said, whether you win or lose the rat race doesn't really matter because you're still just a rat.

It is however, definitely important to ‘secure’ your comforts and future. It is equally, if not more important to secure your good health.

I firmly believe, that Time is the Greatest Luxury of all. Time to do what you really like. Without pressure. Without stress.

Everything is always going to be relative to someone else, so best to stop worrying and comparing and just live every day with happiness and enjoyment.

Being ‘Rich’ is not solely about Material Wealth. As many here have said, there are lots of other things that matter equally if not more.

To put it into another perspective, all of us who have enough time to type our stories and participate actively on Fora such as this, can count ourselves as being Rich!

This is why I will not vote. Because the benchmarks set out in the poll are solely based on materialistic milestones.

[damanbir]

My reason for choosing 'Assets worth 20 Cr' over 'Monthly income of 5 Lakhs per month and assets of 5 Cr'.

1. For building assets worth 5Cr I personally feel 5L per month is a minimum salary/Income level and considering Loans, investments and savings while running a family of 2/3/4 members. Hypothetically, if you start earning this 5LPA today and invest/save 2.5 Lakhs per month It will still take 10 years @10% to reach 5Cr where as in reality it takes time to scale up to 5 LPA making the race to 5 Cr even longer.

2. With the philosophy of not keeping all eggs in one (investment) basket, a corpus of 5 Cr would be divided into 3 instruments, and I feel that sum in each will not be enough to generate a comfortable monthly return, hence the personal pressure to continue earning from salaried/business resources stays.

3. I would consider myself Rich the day Secondary Sources of income start funding my expenses and my re-investments for which 20Cr divided into 3 instruments at 6-7Cr each will be independently enough to sustain basic expenditure, re-investment and luxury while eliminating risks with diversity.

Just a personal thought.

[thenewsymbol]

Rich is rich, it can only be defined by the asset ownership. Monthly or yearly income will only define at what rate a person can save enough to become rich while maintaining atleast an upper middle class lifestyle.

There are medical ailments which cost well above 10crores. There are certain medical treatments which if taken in Western countries will improve the quality of life and also success rate of the procedure.

Rich is being able to handle with ease whatever misfortune life throws at someone that can be solved by money.

Hence rich would mean having asset of at least 20 crores in India and also at least an income so that you don't have to sell assets to live a comfortable life.

Definition comfortable life could vary from person to person. In general earning enough to

having a safe car to commute,
being able to spend money for household expenses,
yearly travel stay in a hotel which has floors covered with carpet all around
Not having to care about price difference between lean season and peak season of tourism
Being able to celebrate all occasions with all the needed and wanted accompaniments

And then having assets such that
Not having to care about healthcare expenses whatever be the health issue
Having time to enjoy the little things in life without having to worry about opportunity cost of that time
Being in a position to pass onat least same amount or more in asset to the next generation

Can be called as rich.

Missing or lacking the income part can be called as asset rich but cash poor, missing or lacking in the asset could be called upper middle class in the process of becoming rich.

[rpunwani]

Lobogris, thanks for starting an excellent & interesting thread. Thanks also to the other participants.

I have been discussing the same with my family and some of my near & dear as I am 62 years old and on the cusp of hanging up my boots.

I started earning when I was 22, a shippie. At that time, I was drawing top salary but for the first 4 years of my sailing, I blew every penny I earned. The next 4 years saw some forced savings on account of a) not being able to spend the money I earned as I was on a tanker shuttling between Chennai/Haldia and Tuapse, USSR (in 1986/87) and b) got married and had to save up to renovate our house / save for our first child.

Quit sailing in 1990 and got a job ashore. Salary dropped from 50K tax free to 5.5k in hand. A rude slap on the face. nevertheless, wife and I worked hard and slowly started financial planning when both of us were 35+ and had two children. At that time I thought 2Cr was good enough as retirement fund

Lady luck smiled on us and at present both our children are happily married and we are proud grandparents. We gave our children the best of education; IB schooling, graduation in India and postgrad in one of the best universities in the world in NYC.

We live in a self owned decent sized house in South Mumbai and also own another 1BHK house in the same area, which is presently on rent.

The only loan that we currently have is the EMI on a luxury car, 18L left to pay. No other liabilities. Apart from that we also own two other cars Ecosport & Jazz (fully paid).

After a lot of deliberations, discussions & brain storming - I believe that if one has minimum cash upwards of 5Cr, and conservatively assuming 6% returns, will yield a pre-tax return of Rs. 30L pa, and approx 20L pa net of taxes. Works out to 1.8L pm and supplemented with net rent 50k works out to 2.3L pm. This is sufficient for a decent lifestyle.

At present interest rates are >8%, and senior citizens get added advantage of 0.5 - 0.75%, this will increase the income. If one has 10Cr cash, one can easily get 50L pa net of taxes, which is roughly 5L pm. One can have a good life .

Alternatively if one has invested in equity/mutual funds for long term, the capital will surely appreciate. One can de-risk progressively from equity to debt whenever warranted.

Needless to say, it is extremely important to have good health and adequate health insurance to take care of unforeseen expenses.

Most important is to be HAPPY and that is what I am

[uthra]

Voted for income 5 lakhs and assets 5 crores. Simple funda: the income takes care of everyday expenses. The assets are investment for hard times. I know many have taken a very philosophical view and it's fair too. But I would rather be comfortable than philosophical. Figuring in the inflation, growing expenses, maintaining a certain level of life & being loanfree is my target. Hence these numbers.

[for_cars1]

In one interview with an Indian business magnet (don't recall who), he said that there is very little difference in lifestyle between someone who has 10 crores in the bank and another who has hundreds or thousands of crores.
Essentially after a point, any further increase in riches does not substantially make a difference in lifestyle.

[nickelniks]

One can be considered rich if he/she has enough free time on their hands to pursue their desires / relax the way they like & one is able to have peaceful sleep at night.
Everything else is materialistic pursuit & peer pressure.

[PowerSpike]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

I am really curious to know what people think is the threshold to be called rich in India? I would love to hear opinions regarding the criteria. Is it by having a minimum amount of assets? A minimum monthly income or a combination of both? Of course, the liabilities and other factors like owning a home or the amount of rent would also have to be considered. Should this threshold be 1 crore? 5 crores? 50? 100 plus? In addition, I would also love to know what level of income or assets would make people satisfied? Like a person could say that they would be content if they had 20 crores or an income of 5 lakhs a month as an example.

The answer would vary with age and the phase of life one is passing thru.
For a kid or a youth, rich would be driving an expensive car and eating in expensive hotels and impressing the social circle.
For a family person, rich could mean having a nice big house for his family.
And it would also vary based on the work done by the person.
For a person doing job, rich would mean having a loan free house, enough bank balance and post retirement savings.
For a businessman, it would mean having a business more successful than the competition.
It would mean having foreign vacations and traveling in luxury.

As someone mentioned in the comments, being content is real richness.
But one is only content till the time they are ahead of their neighbors and their relatives. The feeling of being content vanishes in most people the moment someone surpasses their own material wealth.

[vj_torqueaddict]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

If you really believe in the GNH

Hello Mr.Jaguar, thanks for the insights.
What I meant to say is it's a step in the right direction. Indeed we need to account more people into the survey. I didn't intend to talk about the scores, but the approach of thinking in that direction. Glad to know sampling was small. TIL.

There are some positives outlined here : https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2021/...c-development/

Anyways, we always see what we want to see. Sorry for digressing. Let's talk money indeed

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

As member@GutsyGibbon has alluded to, the house we live in, assuming we own it, should not count as a part of our wealth. It is a locked asset and its value is at best a good ego massage and simply a number.

Sorry to drag this longer. When the plot is worth 20Cr and a person is living within monthly expenses of Rs20k, does it not make sense to sell the plot, buy a smaller apartment home for 2Cr (in the same area) and live a richer fulfilling life with the rest of the money? Imagine all the lives of the kids and grand kids they can impact? Potentially they can change their career paths, the friends they make, and the general direction in life. It just makes no sense (to me) to not call it wealth, live like poor people, and force the next generation to also live the same way.

Originally Posted by wildsdi5530

Assume a rich person will own a 3BHK house and a mid level car. In Bengaluru, a 3/4 BHK will cost 5-12 Cr. A mid level car will cost around 1 Cr (on-road). So we are talking of a monthly EMI which is more than 8 Lakhs.

Genuinely curious, does a rich person really pay EMIs? The way I look at it, when you cant afford to buy something by paying upfront, you seek the help of others and pay them in installments (EMI). By definition of rich, one should be able to buy whatever by paying for it upfront. To be rich, is to have everything in excess of what is needed.

I was trained by my dad to never have credit card debt or pay EMI. The only time I paid EMI was for a home, and I paid it off at the first instance I could. Made me think - part of feeling rich, is to not have to deal with EMIs. I may very well be wrong, which proves I am not rich - yet

[100Kmphormore]

Certainly need an income of 5 lacs and above, along with a significant sum stashed away in company stock/SIP/MFs to combat inflation. for anyone who lives in a gated community and has expensive tastes like good cars,bikes,food/drink etc will know the cost of living is exorbitant, especially in metros. My aunt lives in Whitefield and left Qualcomm last year after 20 years in various semiconductor companies with a couple of short stints abroad, last being a Director for 2 years when she left. She lives in Whitefield in Bengaluru in a gated community, her children studying in international syllabus schools upto 12L per year. She owned a 2011 City, owns a 2012 Duster and has booked the new Hycross ZX variant ready to pay all cash. All this while not working. Her husband owns an animation company and is doing well. She left last year shortly after her stocks vested and retention bonus paid, they travel quite a lot too. Her cousins have similar stories to tell. Today's 40-50 year Olds are quite lucky if they have good investment portfolios, they need not work at all.

[navrddy]

For me, richness means achieving my goals efficiently with lesser resources. I believe all of us should strive for efficiency, Once it is there material richness will follow automatically.
Richness is also defined a power to inspire people to go beyond what they think they are capable.
Richness can also be defined, power to dream big.
The reality is also that the definition of rich is also different for different persons, but me sometimes wondering why?. we all are born and die inevitable.
I guess, one is rich materialistically as along as one can afford roti, kapada, makan and automobile (freedom) along with the existing family commitments. Beyond certain point of money, it is just number adding more zero's to the net worth.

[OffRoadFun]

My definition of the rich has been evolving. As of today, I believe 20Cr does make one rich at least in India.

Assets over 20Cr makes one rich in India, provided some of them are liquid

Assets over 100Cr, makes one super rich.

Income of 5 lakhs per month AND assets of at least 5 crores? No necessary rich but well-off.

Now the inevitable question, is that enough to make one happy? There is some correlation but beyond say 60-70L per annum, there is hardly any correlation. More money does not make you happy IF you have risen from below. Anil Ambani might feel like a pauper with that kind of income.

My parents and some of my cousins think I am rich and there is my ex-neighbor worth 1000Cr (still not living too far) or my current neighbor worth few tens of crores are always there to remind me of my poverty!

I currently make money which I never imagined in my middle class childhood and my twenty year old self would think I am rich but the shifting goalposts (inflation/rat race?) ensure the race never ends. Still, real happiness, in my opinion, is defining what YOU want in terms of money, have comforts and resist the temptation to keep on raising your own bar for money just because many others in your circle have made it even bigger.

But that's not how humans are programmed though. As a data point, I did not find a few people having 100Cr or 1000Cr in assets in my circle to be particularly happier than others. Some of them are actually less happy. Lots of factors like health, spouse, kids start to define your happiness once passing a certain stage in wealth.

Happiness can be as small as ability to buy and enjoy a used German luxury car and have the ability to maintain it :-)

[I_am_TSG]

As most people have already pointed out, it varies. But for me, the definition is when I can be truly financially independent and follow my hobbies and work for pure pleasure instead of compulsion.

I am a doctor but have always wanted to learn to fly. The day I can think of quitting medicine as a profession and have enough to enroll in a flying school without worrying about the fallout, I think I can then call myself rich

[SN88]

Originally Posted by androdev

Assuming this is not a trick philosophical question, I will try to give a pragmatic answer to this million dollar (?) question. We are talking about minimum threshold for a regular Indian family to consider themselves to be rich.

1. One loan free house for each child, one of which will be self-occupied till your clock runs out. This is a huge psychological comfort for typical Indian families, a mandatory checklist.

2. Loan free car for everyone in the family that needs to move around - one of the car should be a premium car (the family car) for the necessary ego massage.

3. Reliable income equivalent to a monthly surplus of Rs 2L after covering all the essential expenses.

With respect to this, I laugh at myself. I have 2 loan free houses in prime Mumbai worth 15cr +, income is much more than 2l a month and trust me I dont see myself rich. The reason being it all depends on the surrounding and circle. You can live both ways ie. self drive, have no full time help at home and do most of the work and let a part time come and help and save around 80k - 1lac a month or be someone who has 1 full time cook, 1 full time nannny for the kid ( or 2 nannies for 2 kids) and a full time house cleaner + 1 part time to wash vessels (because the cook wont wash) and have a driver thus adding a good 1 lac + in expenses. Then is child education expenses, you put your child in ICSE/ CBSE it is approx 15-20k a month, you choose IB there goes your 60k a month. Both these scenarios can be from the same household with same income, but the bank account balance will vary at the end of the year.
I see myself as one of the least earning people in and around my circle. If I simply switch to another circle I will automatically feel rich!!
In the end it is the introspected content levels that will make you feel rich or otherwise.

Another example is of a relative, I feel they are stinking rich 100 cr+ but believe me he has absolutely no high feeling of richness, its as if he doesnt know what is 100 cr. For him richness is how much one has attained religiously. There are several such examples. Contrary to these, there are certain individuals I know who suddenly get 1 lac a month salary and feel they are on the way to forbes

In Hindi - "sab man ka vehem hai"