[vishnurp99]

The world wealth report by Capgemini is a good resource to get the general tiers of richness globally. They have been doing this report for a number of years and lot of market research companies use that report as a secondary data source.

Just putting down the categories that i remember here. The dollar number refers to the invest-able surplus and not your net asset value.

Mass affluent : $100K- $1M
HNWI : $1M - $30M
UHNWI : $30M+

According to the version of report that i saw, the count of Indian HNWIs was around 280K.

[curiousElf]

I have been following this thread since last week and I had my own 2 cents on the "number" which makes sense. There have been a lot of "philosophical" answers and I might have been a bit dismissive about that.

Something happened over the week that made me rethink my perspective. A stray cat comes to our apartment (2nd floor!) almost every other day to be fed. We keep some kibble out usually. The previous Thursday as I saw him - I realised that his lower jaw was missing. At 10 in the night, we took him to an emergency surgery to Cessna. Recovery will take 30 days and we have figured out a boarding to house him as he needs constant dressing changes and time for the tissue to grow back before he is out on the streets.
The cost to do all this was not cheap but you know what - it didn't pinch. It didn't for 1 moment make us think we are moving money out of something more important to help a stray cat we barely know who in distress. And therein lies a bit of privilege and the realisation that its not always about a "number"

Mind you - I still think that there is a number (and am far away from reaching that goal) but the definition of "rich" is a bit more nuanced now.

PS: Bunty should hopefully recover be back to patrolling the streets of Indiranagar soon

[ChatGPT]

One of the wealthiest persons in the world answers how much money he actually needs even though he has a net worth in excess of INR 8,80,000 Crores.

https://youtube.com/watch?v=DFeJ7ji_vu4?feature=share

Bear in mind he doesnt drive fancy cars, or own a fancy house and lives a rather simple life.

On the other hand the 1955 Mercedes-Benz 300 SLR Uhlenhaut Coupe was sold in April 2022 for $145,000,000 (Approx Rs 1192 crores) which makes having 100 crores in the bank of very little significance if one is into that game.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Lobogris

I would also love to know what level of income or assets would make people satisfied? Like a person could say that they would be content if they had 20 crores or an income of 5 lakhs a month as an example.

When John D. Rockefeller (whose wealth in today's dollars was far beyond Musk's / Ambani's or whomever else's) was asked how much was enough, he famously replied, "Just a líttle bit more".

Greed has a way of getting ahold of us. Those who thought they'd be satisfied having reached some lofty goal get there and realize there's another (and another...) higher level to aspire to. And sometimes they stop caring about what may be required to sacrifice/ compromise/ ignore in order to arrive / remain at that next level: "The love of money is the root of all (types of) evil".

There are people here saying things like, "If you have 10 crores cash and are making 7L a month you can live decently". Beyond considering differing contexts, We need to redefine "decent" I'd say.

"Wherewith we have food and raiment [covering], in that we shall be content", said one famous saint.

I have met more than a few contented, indeed glowingly happy people living on a small fraction of what almost anyone here does, in two-room bamboo/other "kachcha" homes (obviously not owning a motor-vehicle), and telling me how blessed they feel, showing me their few prized possessions/ keepsakes and generously offering to me/us some of the little bit they have. It happened to us several weeks ago in Mizoram, in fact. It is humbling - and striking.

I'd met a pair of foreign cyclists out there near the Burma border a few years back; every year they've gone touring someplace in India /Asia: "Mizoram is really different" they told us, "The people are poor, but they seem to live well and happily". Mizoram actually finished at or near the top of a well-publicized contentedness survey a couple years ago. Not singling out MZ, these are just cases I'm familiar with, first was from Philippines, and I could mention many others I've witnessed from Mexico, Venezuela, the U.S. ghettoes, mainland India, wherever. But question remains, why can SOME people /families be happy with almost nothing of material significance, and why is it that even statistically speaking, beyond a fairly modest level, income increases have no correlation on the happiness scale? Bhutan's GNH vs everyone else's GDP. We all ought to ponder such realities.

That the term "net worth" has in most modern societies come to refer to merely a person's material holdings is indeed a travesty of the highest order.


I myself feel I'm "rich" (albeit non-monetarily) and our family lives well, eats consistently healthy, delicious food, manages some nice local outings as well as holidays further afield - and we are quite content, despite earning modestly and possessing relatively few financial or material assets. We wear a lot of (good quality) second-hand clothes (for me, even shoes), and drive old (but good) vehicles, manage to keep our kids in one of the better local schools and can splurge occasionally on special dinners or getaways for birthdays, anniversaries, etc... Kids have grown up skiing, mountain biking, rock-climbing, swimming in pure glacial streams amidst stunning scenery... at little or no cost. We sympathize with all the kids of wealthy urbanites who rarely get the chance tomdo the same! We've had plenty of picnics in pristine natural settings within walking distance. Btw it does NOT require anything like even a lakh a month to be able to do all this, and on average not many up here would earn that much. God has been good to us, of that we are absolutely convinced.

I was just about wealthy as a single guy back before the 90's tech-bubble burst... COULD have been truly wealthy by various means even thereafter had I played my cards differently. But I'm not lamenting, and my wife is a good-hearted soul who also has her priorities right.

So why are there people at 10, 100, 1000x our income level who are by all accounts no happier at best, and are some degree of miserable (or superficially deluded) at worst?

From ancient writ:

"You say, ’I am rich; I have acquired wealth and do not need a thing.’ But you do not realize that you are wretched, pitiful, poor, blind and naked. I counsel you to buy from me gold refined in the fire, so you can become rich; and white clothes to wear, so you can cover your shameful nakedness; and salve to put on your eyes, so you can see.
Those whom I love I rebuke and discipline. So be earnest and repent."

To live contentedly whether (financially/materially) wealthy OR poor requires something more transcendent and valuable than the gold or fine clothes or motor vehicles or praises & compliments that humans of all kinds tend to want to wrap themselves in.

-Eric

[kaushikduttajsr]

Originally Posted by xway

Good thread, but only bone of contention is the denomination is in currency.

Currency is paper now, as governments world over can print it as much as they like.
In last 3 years money printed the world over is higher than ever printed in entire history of mankind.

The biggest scam in the world is paper money which does not have any underlying asset, which used to be gold earlier.


In todays financial terms 5 lacs income is just enough to lead a comfortable life, .

I really hope you're saying 5l annual income is required to live a comfortable life. Because in no part of this country does a (wo)man need 5l per month to live a comfortable life. If that's what you meant, I'm really unsure if I live in the same country.

Edit: I voted for the last option 5cr in assets and 5l income per month. Please note, this is my definition of rich and not scraping by as per my current living expense. We're a family of 4 adults and 1kid. We do non veg 2x every day, go for 2 national vacations and 3-4 local roadtrip and pay emi for a 3bhk in the heart of bangalore. I've never needed more than 1.2l including my emi

Either I'm living in a simulation or t-bhp represents the UHNWI Indian (me excluded).

[Karaboudjan]

As quoted earlier by @ringoism, John D. Rockefeller said, " Just a little bite more."

There can be never enough. When you start thinking that you have reached the epitome of being rich, you meet a person who is richer. Not merely in wealth, but maybe in other aspects, health, family, happiness. When one is content in what we have and stop running after what we do not have will we be truly rich.

Also like someone said, unless we have the time to enjoy our wealth, it does not have any value.

Personally, I feel that if I can give my family a decent life, with all creature comforts and afford a good education for my child which leads to a fulfilling life for her, I would be rich. Of course, there are always higher hopes, dreams and ambitions, but true happiness comes from little things, like bouncing stones in a river or sitting on a wall and reminiscing about the time when we had nothing but fare for a bus ride.

Work for a cause and not for applause.
Live life to express and not to impress.

[vjbox]

Originally Posted by GutsyGibbon

.

Genuinely curious, does a rich person really pay EMIs? The way I look at it, when you cant afford to buy something by paying upfront, you seek the help of others and pay them in installments (EMI). By definition of rich, one should be able to buy whatever by paying for it upfront. To be rich, is to have everything in excess of what is needed.

Rich use the art of leverage. The reason business borrow from banks when they still have cash reserves. Those cash reserves are invested in various other instruments and markets working harder and appreciating while the borrowed sum takes care of acquiring various other assets/ expansion plans etc. You can very well apply this principle even as an individual as long as you have a sound financial backing and managed assets.

[shankar.balan]

Originally Posted by Karaboudjan

As quoted earlier by @ringoism, John D. Rockefeller said, " Just a little bite more."
There can be never enough. When you start thinking that you have reached the epitome of being rich, you meet a person who is richer. .

“There’s Always a Bigger Bear”. To quote Rip of “Yellowstone”.

You make it from the Second Class 2 Tier Train to Executive AC Coach and Economy Class Plane to Business Class and you see there are fellows in First and First Suites and the. those who fly ‘Private’.
You buy a bike and graduate to a car and then bigger and more luxurious cars.
You live in a small flat and then move to a house and then a big Villa in a ‘gated community’.

All these are mere outward signs of the ‘trappings’ of success. When in fact, by succumbing, one is only running faster on that treadmill looking at that pot of gold which is getting further and further away.

There’s always going to be a “Bigger Bear”,
Might as well accept it and best to learn the value of ‘contentment’ and live in the ‘moment’. We never know when those moments will come to a complete halt. So just stop comparing because Comparison just leads to reduced joy.

[am1m]

Originally Posted by ringoism

We need to redefine "decent" I'd say.
...
Kids have grown up skiing, mountain biking, rock-climbing, swimming in pure glacial streams amidst stunning scenery... at little or no cost. We sympathize with all the kids of wealthy urbanites who rarely get the chance tomdo the same! We've had plenty of picnics in pristine natural settings within walking distance. Btw it does NOT require anything like even a lakh a month to be able to do all this, and on average not many up here would earn that much.

Thank you!

Your post captures the lifestyle trap that people like me walk willingly into (and work our lives supporting), out of fear and a view that is fixed only on the 5-10% of those who have more than we do and which makes us feel that what we have is not enough.

Difficult to find posts that don't sway between the extremes (either "chasing money is bad", or "you need crores to just live a normal life").

Bookmarking this post for repeated reading, especially whenever I need to find that 'balance'.

[MikeRX]

There is this old adage in Thamizh which goes as "Food to eat, dress to wear and a place to sleep"...that in my opinion would rightly characterize what "Being rich" means in this world, where we have malnourished children, refugees displaced by war, famine, internal rife etc. scraping by for years on temporary tents made permanent by our inaction!

[BigB]

Being rich is different from being wealthy. Richness is the attribute decided by the public based on your lifestyle. You may be rich (for the people) if you drive a car that is perceived luxurious (Maruti or BMW, based on the people who are judging you) or you are living in a home that is perceived luxurious. However, you may have a lot of debt which people may not see, but still they feel that you are rich.

The main question is whether you are wealthy or not. Whether you are wealthy or not is generally decided by your Net Worth (Assets – Liabilities). A lot of the wealthy people do not show off their “richness” to the public.

I personally believe that if your Net Worth is around 50 to 60 times of your current year expenses, you fall in the category of wealthy irrespective of your income.

A person with an income of 12 lac p.a and an expensed of 6L p.a may be considered wealthy if his Net Worth is around 3 Cr.

A person with an income of 120 lac p.a. and an expensed of 60L p.a with an Net Worth of 10 Cr may be considered as “rich” by the people (due to his high yearly expenses) but he does not fall into the wealthy category.

To be financially comfortable, just track you Net Worth related to your yearly expenses. THAT’S IT.

[Slow Cheeta]

On a grander scale of time never has mankind had so much luxury, opulence and peace yet at the same time and yet been so discontent!
Just think about it! Even the king of the England some 300 years back did not have the access to the healthcare, education, sanitation, phone, technology, cars, vacations, different cuisines, sense of security, etc that all of us here take for granted!
In my personal opinion being content with what you have right now truely makes you rich. Just work for your own joy and then whatever comes your way in future is just an added bonus to enhance your riches! We are already living in the most prosperous times ever seen by our species. Let's rejoice!

[drive.helios]

Originally Posted by rpunwani

After a lot of deliberations, discussions & brain storming - I believe that if one has minimum cash upwards of 5Cr, and conservatively assuming 6% returns, will yield a pre-tax return of Rs. 30L pa, and approx 20L pa net of taxes. Works out to 1.8L pm and supplemented with net rent 50k works out to 2.3L pm. This is sufficient for a decent lifestyle.

At present interest rates are >8%, and senior citizens get added advantage of 0.5 - 0.75%, this will increase the income. If one has 10Cr cash, one can easily get 50L pa net of taxes, which is roughly 5L pm. One can have a good life .

Alternatively if one has invested in equity/mutual funds for long term, the capital will surely appreciate. One can de-risk progressively from equity to debt whenever warranted.

Needless to say, it is extremely important to have good health and adequate health insurance to take care of unforeseen expenses.

Most important is to be HAPPY and that is what I am

I started organising my finances following two advices that I received.

My dad told me in the year that I started working - get tired of spending. You can save later. And I followed it to the T. Racked up credit card dues by paying only the minimum dues for a while.

3 years later, my then manager, one day pulled me aside, made an excel sheet on how much I was spending and what I should do to organize better. I started planning the next month. Borrowed loan free money from parents, close the credit card, saved prudently while also accommodating for some luxuries.

I'm not rich by my own money or by inheritance, nor do I have the skillset to invest in stocks. I'm extremely disciplined in my money management, I take calculated risks and invest in mutual funds as much as I can. I budget for every month, I keep a track of every single rupee that I spend and that in turn helps me save more.

I've calculated and recalculated in "material terms" what would it take for me to retire and I'm almost at the Same number, you are mentioning.

To answer objectively,

6 CR in Cash Assets - split between equity, liquid cash and debt to cover for vacations, monthly living.
1 house worth 1Cr in a tier 2/3. (ideally much less. My parents home costs 30-32L in current valuation in construction alone built 16 years ago, renovated 5 tears ago and 2 years ago.)
2 cars worth 50L cumulatively to take us around.( would prefer less, switch to electric but cars are expensive)
Convert our current flat (valued at 1Cr) to a rental property after finishing off the loans in next 5 years
Term insurance as 1/4 of the total assets individually for me and spouse
Health insurance for coverage (pending due to a health issue)
A liquid fund of 70-75L for health emergencies and covering both our parents.

[harish.raghavan]

Personally, I would value time, the ability to spend time as I wish with my family and friends anywhere and even doing nothing would be rich.

The more you climb up the stairs more valuable the time becomes.

[lina]

I have a very simple definition. Total value of liquid + semi-liquid assets should be worth my weight in gold. So, all my stocks, MFs, FDs, SBs, gold etc should total upto approximately 44Cr as of today. Then, I am rich.