[sudhirjaipur]

Interesting thread with a lot of information and viewpoints. I am 74 and have been using progressive lenses in Lindberg Air Titanium Rim frames, the frame was pricey to begin with but with such a long use has proved it's worth. My experience has been that the lenses gather scratches within 2/3 years, no matter how carefully you clean them, and need to be changed. For the last 2 lenses I has used Varilux VX series costing around Rs 35,000 with photo chromatic coating. This year when I went shopping for lenses, here in Jaipur, the price quoted was around Rs 45,000 for Varilux, Nikon, Ziess lenses. I then chanced upon a Lenskart outlet and walked in, they offered me Rodenstock lenses with a wide vision corridor at Rs 21,500, I thought let me try, so ordered them for my Rim Titanium and also for the Rimless Lindberg which I had not changed lenses for some time because of the increasing price. I have been wearing them for a month now and find them ok.

I agree that the height of the frame and correct marking of the pupil for near and far sight is crucial for a comfortable pair of glasses and that progressives are a trade off between convenience and more precise sight. Cheers

[docsr]

Another "out of syllabus" thread....an interesting one though. Also, one that I can claim significant personal experience. Much more than the wheels department.

My work requires high visual acuity and every little bit helps. I went through several steps:
1. Age related changes - got regular unifocal lenses for a while.
2. Underwent several eye procedures, and transitioned through a series of brands and frames.
3. Had cataracts pretty early- went for a unifocal intraocular lens- to optimise brightness. Multifocal(usually 3 levels of focal distance-near, mid and distance) intraocular lenses allows you to do away with glasses, but they transmit less light as compared to unifocals. So now I wear glasses -with progressive lenses.

Always visited my family optometrist and his assessment was a bit different from my ophthalmologist.His was an upmarket shop and I went through a series of imported frames and lenses. Used the Lindberg siloutte series , rimless frames. Along with wide view lens from Nikon, Crizal , Etc.
The lenses are sold with various "features"-better UV protection, greater field of view, special coating to reduce glare while driving, etc etc. However, over the years I have realised that each of these add only tiny increments in performance, at disproportionately higher costs. The rule of decreasing returns.

This time, I visited my local Titan Eye store. The experience was remarkably pleasant. I purchased both the frame (titanium) and lenses from brand Titan itself. Cost wise it was about 60-70% of the cost of the other foreign brands-and performance wise... not different.

My conclusion at the end of this is that our brains play a large part in what we "see". And it easily compensates for minor changes (or "gains" in marketing parlance). This is often underestimated.

Of course, there is a basic threshold of quality we need to reach, beyond that , am not sure there is than much to gain by going pricier and priciber.

[eyedocgb]

Originally Posted by NPV

Thank you .

My opinion,if you use computers for more than a couple of hours daily and if you need distance vision correction too, go for progressive lenses. The justification of changes every couple of years, hence you shouldn't go for progressives doesn't hold good...it's more a mental ponzi scheme -to save money- while denying the very part (that helps you read on this forum) the best option.

Moreover with bifocals or reading glasses, you would develop a habit of craning up your neck to read, not to mention peering above them to gaze around. At the end of the day, it's your choice. Cheers!

[Nrulz]

This response is not related to lenses but i hope my experience helps someone. I found out about my eyesight issue during a road trip, when my friends managed to read sign board but i couldn't. Always being boastful about my eyesight i was shocked. Eliptical eye ball and correction lenses were suggested. I hated wearing eyeglasses. I started eating curry leaves and carrot juice consistently for many months and doctor also advised an exercise (focussing on different corners of the eye and washing eyes with water). It did took an effort but i no longer need glasses anymore. I haven't given any technical details here but a different perspective to solve eyesight related issues.

[kailash343]

Originally Posted by HereticHermit

Request to Mods: Please move the thread if posted at improper forum. This place was best I could understand, may accommodate this.

So, frustrated with having to maintain set of glasses for both far and near sight correction at Home and Office and that I cannot use off the shelve ‘readymade’ reading glasses due to varying cylindrical power in both eyes. I must use made to order reading glasses which I keep regularly keep losing at some point or another at various places I visit. Sometimes I am able recover the ‘lost’ piece but mostly I head out to nearest optho shop and get a new one made on order.

My forgetfulness causes unreasonable expense and having multiple made to order glasses stashed at home, office, car or kept as spare, only compounds the financials. To consolidate my losses, I went out and got the ‘progressive’ lenses made. It sounded great and I was okay that it might take me couple of weeks to adjust to new lenses. But it was not to be and despite best efforts I became aware that at the price point of nearly 10 grand, they won’t cut it for me for simple reason that I opted for 'cheapie’' at 10 grand. Even after 1 month I struggle with the German precision it requires to find the sweet spot and bobbing my whole face up -down, left to right.

To say in very clear terms, the more costly ones you order the better chances you have at adopting. They give all the gibberish about more tech, effort and precision going into the higher end lenses vs cheaper once hence better results. It beats me hands down to understand that what can really drive the price so insane when all it requires is adjustment of few knobs at the polishing machine or whatever they work on and turn out a product with ‘better’ proportions suitable for wearer? Is it really as complex a thing that drive price point northward?
I am hoping there is someone clued into the industry and school us about the real picture behind high end high price vs cheap and low end lanes. For what it is worth, my long time optician who is generally wry of suggesting me expensive solutions is advising that the kind of comfort I am tyring to have from a progressive lenses ‘MAY’ be had from something that starts at 25K price point and above.

So why it is so hard to machine a better lens from same material as the picture suggests?

PS: I was happy when those hang-in-neck silicon frames were available and cheap as chips but with ali express out of equation I can’t bring myself to spend Rs 1400 for what is essentially a silicon strap locally available. The silicon bend invariably disintegrates within 6 months of daily wear.

Being an eye surgeon, few things to note.

A progressive lens is one which has a distance point and a near point with the power gradually changing between the 2 - this is what the attached image tries to explain. As a consequence of this change in power while maintaining the proper surface architecture and hence the ability to fit onto a frame, there are some distortions that invariably appear towards the side of the transitions zone (which we call the corridor). So by using better lens processing technology the lens manufacturers are able to reduce the amount of distortions and thereby increase the width of the vision corridor. Of course as a consequence the cost of the lens production processing and fitting increases.

We should also remember that even if we are emmetropic (0 power for distance), our near vision tends to increase every 3-5 years based on our visual demand. This has nothing to do with the use or non use of spectacle glasses. It's a natural consequence of the decrease in the elasticity of the natural lens apparatus complex which is a direct consequence of aging. This leads to development of a near vision difficulty around the age of 40+/- years. Exact age is different for different people depending on their distance power, visual demand and requirements etc.

While choosing a pair of progressives please ensure that you have a selected a big enough frame to house the progressive lenses. A small frame decreases the distance between the distance and near point which as a result causes more distortions and reduces the corridor stabilty. A decent pair of branded progressive lenses is something which does the trick. However even a 50k lens when not measured properly for your face and frame will cause trouble.

The most important part of a progressive lens fitting is to have the proper alignment of the centre of the pupils on both sides (the pupillary or inter pupillary distance). This should correspond to the distance point on the progressive lenses. A mm or so of deviation may be well tolerated by some while even a 0.25 mm deviation may not be tolerated by others. Intolerance due to this malalignment is the most common cause for progressive maladaptation. I honestly see a lot of patients come to me for exactly the malalignment and poor fitting issues especially when purchased online and not in person (physical). In person also if the sales person is literally that - a sales person he/she on many an occasion will not know what is happening and poorly fitted lenses do get dispensed. An experienced ophthalmologist/optometrist is the best solution for this.

Cost wise of course newer technology for processing lenses costs more, hence the large variations in availability of lenses. Chose something in your budget range and remember the opposite person who is going to handle your fitting and marking is more important than just the cost - prefer your ophthalmologist as they not only consider your power but also your daily life situations and the health of the different structures in your eye including the cornea, lens, retina etc. (Sorry my personal ego makes me want to say this)

Once you have selected and successfully obtained a pair of progressives now comes the time you need to adjust to them. Prior to the use of a progressive our eyes which are the most complex and under rated marvelous cameras, have the ability to focus at different distances in different gazes. However due to aging as explained, we start having a weaker focusing ability. The progressive lenses take care of the focusing ability but due to the lens design we have a different issue - gaze dependency. Due to the variable location of the power for distance intermediate and near on the spectacle lens on the glasses, we need to look through the appropriate part of the lens to get optimal vision for any given distance. This is where the patient adaptation comes into play. I normally suggest my patients to first use their progressives for distance television viewing when at home and relaxed for a couple of hours and step it up gradually to include intermediate (laptop) and then finally near vision activities (reading/mobile). This is the learning curve for your eyes to know when and how to look and why to look for focusing different requirements. Lastly add in movement - i.e. driving or riding. Starting with movement sometimes gives patients a little giddiness or headahce also in addition to instant hatred to progressive glasses.

P.S. - we also do get multifocal contact lenses which reduce the impact of gaze movements and focus but we don't get accurate powers for them and in general are a lot more expensive as opposed to a well made pair of progressive glasses.

Correction of near vision issues due to aging is still an ongoing struggle and no 1 solution fits all. Coatings do help but are secondary to the design of the lens. Experience of the ophthalmologist and optometrist is more important and lastly give yourself time to adapt to your pair of glasses.

[itwasntme]

To add to the excellent comments & advice here, I have found that progressives frames need to be periodically 'adjusted' to ensure the distance is correctly maintained. In my case I tend to use them roughly, and hence the nose-pads get pushed back against the frame. Typically, I visit a good shop and request them to gently push back the pads to the correct height, i.e. the height they originally were when new.

I find it makes a significant difference to me.

[SinghBHP]

DIGITAL BI-FOCAL LENSES :

I recently faced similar issues where my near vision suddenly dropped and I was fed up of using 2 different glasses. I went to optician for getting Progressive lenses; he explained me all the positive and negatives of it. Money was one of the main issue I had because I was worried that if it did not adjust I'll waste INR 20 - 25 thousand. So he suggested Digital Bi-focal lenses . These are like normal Bifocal lenses but hides the curve which is visible in normal bi-focals. The lenses look like a normal single vision lenses and it costs me around INR 5500 for the Indian brand I bought (NOVA). I am sure the international ones will be little expensive but still not as much as progressive. The only thing is that you learn to adjust a bit with your head/neck/eye movement. It works for most of my requirements. Except when I am reading in a position where I am unable to make correct head/neck/eye movement like on dining table (due to height) reading paper , using laptop only at certain angle etc. I use near ones in those cases.

[CCRider]

Has anyone tried "Corneal inlays" for treating presbyopia ? A small ring is inserted into the cornea of one of the eyes which fixes the long sight through the pinhole effect. The benefit is that the ring can be removed if one is not satisfied with the outcome without causing any lasting effect to the eye.
I was looking to try it but the reviews online are mixed on the extent to which it will help.

[RunGaDa]

Here’s my experience. With constant screen viewing, about 8 to 10 hours on week days at office and then 3-4 hours at home on small mobile smart phone screens I was responsible to screwup my eye sight. But profession demanded extended work hours, excel sheets, number crunching and it was unavoidable. What was avoidable was limiting mobile screen time. Luckily I hardly watch any TV.
Any how. I went to the optician at 45 with complaint of not able to read books, smaller or regular fonts. And he told me I was coming there 4 years late. I know he exaggerated, may be I was a year late.
In those days I was little blinded by brands etc and went for an expensive frame from a top brand. Then the progressive lens in it. The whole thing costed me 40K if I remember correctly. I was happy with light weight sturdy glasses.
However, within two years I realised that the frame started to worn out at the area on top of the ear. And I sweat a lot must have contributed. But hey, that is why I went for a so called expensive lens.
All the computerized testing, costly frame seem to be infatuation. My outlook also changed in that period and I was not running after brands, rather comfort took over precedence.

One sunny Saturday morning, just visited a very simple optician who did manual testing. He had a huge calibration of lenses and took a lot of time to finalize. Went for a progressive lens and a very simple but comfy frame.
This gave me good satisfaction. After all I was able to remove the “means”, which has taken unnecessary priority over real thing, and focus on putting valuable time to put my eyes to.

Hope this helps.

[AudiFan]

I have been using progressive lenses for 8 years now, i am now 56.
The ones I bought from a local vendor 8 years ago did not suit my requirement despite haveing paid 12K at that point in time.
During demonetisation, I picked up another pair mated with a light weight titanium frame and it worked like magic, I bought this from EYESENSE, Kormangala, Bangalore as per my friend's suggestion.
I realised over a period of time that i am facing neck fatigue while wearing the progressive lens specs and working with my laptop. I approached eysense again and this time they provided a specs suitable to wear while at desk, these specs improves reading considerably but your clear vision is restricted say upto 3 mtrs radius!!
I use a customised pair of glares (john Jacobs from Lenskart) while driving during day, and this is best suited for my long drives as the progressive lenses were a bit disconcerting while driving.

[SlowRider]

Chipping in to provide inputs from someone who had to start wearing progressives in their late-twenties. Unlike the more common condition, I developed far-sightedness at a very early age (early twenties) and needed glasses for reading. Eventually, my near vision correction prescription got so strong that it began to interfere with my distance vision, so doc wrote a prescription for my first progressive lens. It took a while to adjust to. My first pair was among the more affordable options and had a relatively smaller "viewing area". This meant a lot more head swiveling. I got used to it, but absolutely hated it. The next time I got a fresh pair, I opted for the more expensive option with wider field of vision, and it's been a massive life upgrade! I don't need to swivel my head that much, and I'm able to use computer screen, phone and drive without hating the experience. So in my experience, choosing the lens with a narrow field of vision can make a very big difference in your quality of life. I'm generally a cheapskate but I would absolutely not go for the narrow field lenses at any cost. I don't feel my experience all that different from when I used a single power prescription. One exception though - I've learnt not to trust my depth perception when taking stairs that are 'unfamiliar' to me. Something to do with some stairs filtering through the top power and some stairs filtering through the bottom power confuses my brain.

[HereticHermit]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I think you got your priorities wrong. Why worry about the cost/margin for the manufacturer. You should worry about getting the most comfortable pair of glasses that you can afford!

Would it make you feel better and buy these expensive lenses if it turned out they are selling them at a loss?

Jeroen

Of course, getting a well-fitting pair is priority. I am only curious as I really don’t know what makes wide corridor lenses better at extra cost from same manufacturer using same tooling and product management.

I did not imply that getting lenses at cheaper price when manufacturer incur loss at all price points of his range will give me better satisfaction. But I am genuinely trying to understand the logic of cost fixation based on ‘wider corridor’ when single largest raw material and component is broadly constant and stable across entire product range. As an analogy most LED bulbs from 5W to 9W have same driver and go through same processing and machining except that at final LED embedding, 5 W gets X number fixed and 9W get Y number LEDs fixed on plate. Assuming the technology, tooling, machining, inventory cost, marketing costs and man hour utilization being benchmarked, at final process it is only 4 extra LEDs being added to a 9W bulb as against 5w bulb. The extra time required is probably at fraction of time management and extra cost of raw material. Both factors put together really do not justify the price difference between two products, but consumer have no say in price fixing because of free market and it is not a happy situation to face. That’s all I was trying to understand from someone who knew this lens industry better than I.
I am well aware I cannot buy a top end Hasselblad with entry level Kodak budget.

[ar@v1nd]

Originally Posted by HereticHermit

Of course, getting a well-fitting pair is priority.

I am only curious as I really don’t know what makes wide corridor lenses better at extra cost from same manufacturer using same tooling and product management.
That’s all I was trying to understand from someone who knew this lens industry better than I.
I am well aware I cannot buy a top end Hasselblad with entry level Kodak budget.

Absolutely. This is something that beats me as well.

Forget exotic coatings and super high index materials etc. Progressive lenses are not a new technology and have been around long enough. How difficult and expensive can it be to make a good wide corridor progressive lens using normal lens material? Haven't these companies produced enough of these lenses to recover the R&D and other initial costs?

Why should a wide corridor lens cost 25K while a cheap progressive lens with same power is available for 1K? Agreed, there will be antiglare coating and probably high index material etc; all that aside, the power of the lens is basically determined by the thickness of the lens material at each point of the lens. How in the world does it cost 25x the money for a differently shaped lens? Beats me.

[diablo29]

Sharing my experience with progressive and single vision specs.
Post entering 40's I got diagnosed a near vision correction and after that started using progressive specs. These worked fine till lockdown during which the screen time went up and so did my near vision number.
This time I decided to go with the expensive German brand "Zeiss" for the clarity of lenses they offered. Was very excited to get the new German brand lenses which costed around 25k. The immediate feeling post wearing them was "awesome clarity" , however the same was short lived when I sat at my computer desk. I had to raise my neck up and then look down in order to read from the computer screens. I was told it takes time to adjust with new lenses etc. hence I did everything from changing the height of the multiple monitor screens (lowering it), changing tilt angles to lowering my chair height etc., all these permutation and combinations resulted in either a back pain or sore neck.
The German brand gave me a detailed lenses alignment / calibration report and that was in line with my doctor's prescription card, hence as per them it was perfect. My Opthalmologist said by just looking at the lenses under a spot light that the intermediate vision is placed at a wrong angle and this was due to incorrect PD (Pupillary Distance) measurement. However she wasn't willing to give me anything in writing to that effect which I can show to Zeiss fellows.
With frustration and not wanting to loose more time and work productivity, I got myself single (near) vision specs for computer use only from lenskart, it costed me 3k for two specs and it solved my problems. It even gave me flexibility to slouch / sit /sleep / keep my head at any angle while on computer screens . Now when using computer, which is like 12 hours daily I'm using the single vision specs and later on I use the progressive one for daily tasks and watching TV etc., have also got couple of far vision specs from lenskart for sports and outdoor use including prescription sun glasses.

Very happy with current solutioning to keep separate specs for both the far and near vision ones. The Progressive stuff was not worth the money and efforts I had put in and wanted more of a simple and cost effective solution.

[beejay]

Originally Posted by diablo29

The German brand gave me a detailed lenses alignment / calibration report and that was in line with my doctor's prescription card, hence as per them it was perfect. My Opthalmologist said by just looking at the lenses under a spot light that the intermediate vision is placed at a wrong angle and this was due to incorrect PD (Pupillary Distance) measurement. However she wasn't willing to give me anything in writing to that effect which I can show to Zeiss fellows.

The basic and most essential measurements required for progressives is called

1. Pupillary Distance (PD) In simple terms the distance between the centre of your right and left eyes. Measured in millimetre.

2 . Fitting Height. Again, in simple terms the distance between the centre of your eyes to the bottom of the lens. Measured in millimetre.


Apart from this, if you are spending like the kind of money that you are spending, it is absolutely necessary to ask your optician for the below measurements too and ensure that these measurements are also sent to the manufacturing lab to produce your lenses.
1. Intermediate Vision Height
2. Inset
3. Upfit
4. Segment Height
5. Your natural reading distance
6. Frame Dimensions. A, B and DBL ( Distance between lenses )
7. Effective Diameter
8. Panto Tilt
9. Vertex
10 Wrap Angle.

Kindly view the attached image. I can send you the PDF if needed. Your adaptation time will be the least when done this way. And you need not get used to your glasses. It is simple. Accuracy is prime for lenses.

Please note that frame shape is also vital especially for progressive lenses. Thankfully we now are producing the first made to measure 3D printed eyewear. With this, you can actually make your own frame and weighs 6 gram.

If your optician does not have the same, you can also choose a generic frame from the shelf, but keep the below in mind.

1. Select a frame that is atleast 28mm tall.
2. As a personal rule, we do not suggest our customers aviator shape for progressives, as it take a chunk away from reading. As our eyes converge towards the nose when we read something. But with the right measurements and lens selection, it is possible too. Not to confuse you, maybe select another shape.

To conclude, thumb rule to get used to your new lenes is to point your nose towards what you want to see. Automatically, your eyes will find the desired portion in the leses.

P.S
Kindly bear in mind to not start viewing intermediate and distance vision using your near vision glasses.
As, you will not need that much of a power as your reading and slowly you would get used to seeing through them and unnecessarily get used to the same.

Ditch it all and get just one pair and rightly made. Rather than buying multiple pairs. Also ponder about the strategy.