What is driving pleasure?

DCEite · 19th March 2005, 14:17

Here in this forum, this phrase pops up so many times. But i think its meaning is not clearly defined.

To most of us here, driving pleasure means how "fast" the car goes from 0-100kmph.
So a car doing it in 9 secs has better driving pleasure than a car doing it in 18 secs.

Now my point is, this is a very vague description of driving pleasure.

To me a pleasing driving is not necessary the one which is the fastest, but which is comfortable and safer as well.
I just love the cars with good ergonomics (like design of seats, driving position, ac ..etc.) than cars with outright performance and no ergonomics to talk of.
Thats why a tata indica journey of 100 km will be less tiring than the same journey on a Santro xing (badly designed seats and pedals) or a wagonr (narrow and unspportive seats) or an esteem (all of the above bad qualities)...

Thats why a Fiat Palio 1.2 nv with 0-100kmph of 17 secs gives me more driving pleasure than a zen doing the same in 13 odd seconds...

What are the views of fellow t-bhpians on this....

drifter · 19th March 2005, 14:52

Lets not confuse performance with driving pleasure. The lines can get pretty blurred. I agree with deceite's views. Some cars that perform well can be a mess in the ergonomics department.

But to most on teambhp ... performance = driving pleasure.... comforts be damned!

But i'd personally prefer a car thats both comfortable and has the show to match the go.

Drifter

Shan2nu · 19th March 2005, 15:57

Driving pleasure can be anything. It's not all about acceleration. Depends on the mood.

Nobody rips their car, everytime they sit in it. On a long journey, the Vtec never sees revvs rise above 3000 rpm.

And on a solo drive it never sees revvs drop below 4000 rpm. LOL

So, i get pleasure from both styles of driving. But, it's good to know that my car can offer both, in a reliable and refined way and that's what's so satisfying about it.

But the term "Driver's Car" is directly related to performance in terms of acceleration, braking, cornering etc. A driver's car need not have comfort or ergonomics.

Shan2nu

normally_crazy · 19th March 2005, 16:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

But the term "Driver's Car" is directly related to performance in terms of acceleration, braking, cornering etc. A driver's car need not have comfort or ergonomics.

Shan2nu

Shan,

I thought the opposite. A driver's car has to be ergonomically spot on and comfortable for the driver atleast ?

GTO - Touring · 19th March 2005, 17:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by normally_crazy

Shan,

I thought the opposite. A driver's car has to be ergonomically spot on and comfortable for the driver atleast ?

Spot on NC! A drivers car is THE car that should have the right ergonomics more than anything. Cos when you are on the limit, you need to reach out to the controls instinctively.

But coming back to what I think is the topic of the thread : Get this. Every morning when leaving for work...I have my C, Vtec, Esteem and Jeep. its obvious that my Jeep is the slowest of the lot.

But yet, 29 mornings out of 30...my hand reaches out for the Jeeps keys. Sometimes, Its not about what your car can do...its how your car makes you feel !

GTO

Shan2nu · 19th March 2005, 17:50

Well if you're talking about ergonomics as in hand brake, gear lever, etc then yes, it has to have that. No point having your handbrake on the other side of the world when you need it the most.

Look at WRC cars, perfect example for what a driver's car should be like. It maynot look sophisticated from the inside but, what you need is always at hand. And i remember Rtech posting a thread on how driver centered the S2000 interiors were. That is the kind of ergonmics were talking about.

Anyway lets get back to the main topic before this turns into a driver's car thread.

Shan2nu

vivaid · 19th March 2005, 18:06

i would tend to measure pleasure in terms of the overall driving experience....
and i feel, distinguishing Pleasure from Thrills would drive home the point...

a classic example would be my 35 km return drive from office in Fort to my home in the central s'urbs... done on most days post 9 pm.... moderately good roads.... dwindling traffic.... the music of ur choice.... ur the king of the roads....
- Thrill for me is when i zoom thru and cover the distance in 30-35 mins of total high alert.. edge of seat.... vroom vroom driving...

- And pleasure is when, i am on cruise mode... and am generally slipping and easing thru the traffic.... accelaration is generally gradual.... cruise speed would be 90 kmph on the eastern express..... stress free driving....
(Had a better analogy to differentiate between Thrills and Pleasure.. but then.. thot i'd stick to driving.....

)

so if u were to build on this example..
- all the adrenalin rush relate driving would get categorised under Thrill...
- and all the cruise mode, relaxed drives would get categorised as Pleasure...

and hence my signature......

Drive for the pleasure of it..... not the thrill!!

Shan2nu · 19th March 2005, 18:55

Well, i would disagree. When i drive on the Hubli-Ankola road, i usually cruise at 120kmph, on an expressway 120 would have been boring but, on these roads it can be quite thrilling.

But, at the same time, i'm not on the limit, i'm calm and not on the edge of my seat. You don't have be go overboard to get thrilled, i get it when ever i take a turn which i feel was precise, calculated and quick at the same time.

Rash driving with aggressive driving inputs is not my idea of thrill.

But then again thrill levels differ in many ways. We do 160kmph and feel great but if you ask an F1 driver, he'll say "160kmph? Man that's boring speed".

So, pleasurable driving isn't always slow, it can be fast too.

Shan2nu

vivaid · 19th March 2005, 19:33

well shan...

I guess you dint get the essence of my response.... nowhere do i mention that pleasurable driving needs to be slow driving.... the intention is to understand the threshold which separates thrill driving and pleasure driving....

Taking cues from ur response .... if 120 on the hubli ankola road is thrilling for you... then i would probably classify pleasure driving for u at probably 100.. when u would have been a lil more relaxed.... unless 100 is again on the boring side for u

in a nut- shell..... "Cruise mode".. might be a better word.... albeit in the colloquial sense of the word....

and yes.. if its the thrill that gives you the pleasure... well.. then.... nothing more to add!!!

cheers....

Shan2nu · 19th March 2005, 19:56

Quote:

nowhere do i mention that pleasurable driving needs to be slow driving....

You said ""And pleasure is when, i am on cruise mode... and am generally slipping and easing thru the traffic.... accelaration is generally gradual.... cruise speed would be 90 kmph on the eastern express..... stress free driving....""

90kmph on an expressway is very much slow driving. It's not pleasurable, it's boring!!!

Quote:

and yes.. if its the thrill that gives you the pleasure... well.. then.... nothing more to add!!!

More or less like that. My drives are pleasurable and thrilling at the same time. Relative speed is what gets me going. 120 on the Hubli-Ankola road is pleasurable while 120 on an expressway would kill me, unless i'm driving a Wagon R. LOL

Shan2nu

IndianDawg · 2nd November 2005, 16:01

Driving pleasure?
SPEED and only SPEED.

definately driving safe but when the empty lane arrives i accelerate and dont bother how much kmph i touch but speed that makes you feel very fast and driving perfectly , safely that gives me pleasure not touching 140 kmph or anything but driving very fast but should be safely and perfection should be there that makes me feel that i am a very good driver overall

ananthkamath · 2nd November 2005, 20:23

My definition of driving pleasure: (In order of importance)

A1) Suspension Response: Most important factor. Turn-in should be crisp & aggressive with no body roll; Mid-corner predictability should good.

1) Steering Response : any input on the wheel must translate into instant output from the front wheels.

2) Gearbox Feel: Must be direct and positive; especially the dog leg shifts like 2-3 & 4-5.

3) Throttle Response: Must be good; in other words in-gear acceleration is much more important in the real world rather than 0-100 or 0-160.

4) Brake Modulation: Must have good bite at high speeds with progression being more important at low speeds.

5) Ergonomics: As someone said, everything must fall to hand easily; the relationship between pedals-wheel-gear lever must be comfortable.

6) Seat: Must offer excellent side support while cornering and good lumbar & thigh support. (which is why I am making my own seats)

kiku007 · 2nd November 2005, 20:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by dceite

Thats why a tata indica journey of 100 km will be less tiring than the same journey on a Santro xing (badly designed seats and pedals) or a wagonr (narrow and unspportive seats) or an esteem (all of the above bad qualities)...

Thats why a Fiat Palio 1.2 nv with 0-100kmph of 17 secs gives me more driving pleasure than a zen doing the same in 13 odd seconds...

What are the views of fellow t-bhpians on this....

Driving Pleasure takes different meanings for diff People and Diff drives.
Take ur Eg. The Indica provides excellent Driving Pleasure on a Highway for 100 kms(i.e. free roads) when comp to Santro/Wagon R but the same Indica is a nightmare(Irresponsive Engine/Poor gear shift) to drive in the stop go City traffic. Here the Santro/Wagon R provide more Driving Pleasure than the Indica.

And there's also an emotional angle to it(Don't know how many of you would agree to it)!!....think about this..My first vehicle,TVS Scooty (1998 model) gives me more driving pleasure than my Suzuki Fiero...can't explain but it happens!!

Frankly when u like ur car/bike u say ur car/bike is the best in Driving Pleasure..I mean..u wont bother if the driver seat has no height adjustment.(My scooty didn't have Gears at all!!)

The Wolf · 2nd November 2005, 21:38

Driving Pleasure= Ease of driving(in complete controll of the car) + Feel of the car(confidence and snagfree disposure) and behaviour( what image the car renders you to the outside world)

*Behaviour: Might not be applicable to drivers above 45yrs in most case...

msprabhakar · 2nd November 2005, 21:39

1. An even road and steady traffic
2. A quiet cabin with 92.5 FM on, preferably with Jaggu & Tarana on "Good morning, Mumbai" show!

19th March 2005, 14:17	#1
DCEite Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: NCR Posts: 3,417 Thanked: 2,560 Times	What is driving pleasure? Here in this forum, this phrase pops up so many times. But i think its meaning is not clearly defined. To most of us here, driving pleasure means how "fast" the car goes from 0-100kmph. So a car doing it in 9 secs has better driving pleasure than a car doing it in 18 secs. Now my point is, this is a very vague description of driving pleasure. To me a pleasing driving is not necessary the one which is the fastest, but which is comfortable and safer as well. I just love the cars with good ergonomics (like design of seats, driving position, ac ..etc.) than cars with outright performance and no ergonomics to talk of. Thats why a tata indica journey of 100 km will be less tiring than the same journey on a Santro xing (badly designed seats and pedals) or a wagonr (narrow and unspportive seats) or an esteem (all of the above bad qualities)... Thats why a Fiat Palio 1.2 nv with 0-100kmph of 17 secs gives me more driving pleasure than a zen doing the same in 13 odd seconds... What are the views of fellow t-bhpians on this.... Last edited by DCEite : 19th March 2005 at 14:23.
	() Thanks

19th March 2005, 14:52	#2
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	Lets not confuse performance with driving pleasure. The lines can get pretty blurred. I agree with deceite's views. Some cars that perform well can be a mess in the ergonomics department. But to most on teambhp ... performance = driving pleasure.... comforts be damned! But i'd personally prefer a car thats both comfortable and has the show to match the go. Drifter Last edited by drifter : 19th March 2005 at 14:54. Reason: typo
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19th March 2005, 15:57	#3
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	Driving pleasure can be anything. It's not all about acceleration. Depends on the mood. Nobody rips their car, everytime they sit in it. On a long journey, the Vtec never sees revvs rise above 3000 rpm. And on a solo drive it never sees revvs drop below 4000 rpm. LOL So, i get pleasure from both styles of driving. But, it's good to know that my car can offer both, in a reliable and refined way and that's what's so satisfying about it. But the term "Driver's Car" is directly related to performance in terms of acceleration, braking, cornering etc. A driver's car need not have comfort or ergonomics. Shan2nu Last edited by Shan2nu : 19th March 2005 at 15:58.
	() Thanks

19th March 2005, 17:50	#6
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	Well if you're talking about ergonomics as in hand brake, gear lever, etc then yes, it has to have that. No point having your handbrake on the other side of the world when you need it the most. Look at WRC cars, perfect example for what a driver's car should be like. It maynot look sophisticated from the inside but, what you need is always at hand. And i remember Rtech posting a thread on how driver centered the S2000 interiors were. That is the kind of ergonmics were talking about. Anyway lets get back to the main topic before this turns into a driver's car thread. Shan2nu Last edited by Shan2nu : 19th March 2005 at 17:53.
	() Thanks

19th March 2005, 18:06	#7
vivaid BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 71 Thanked: 3 Times	i would tend to measure pleasure in terms of the overall driving experience.... and i feel, distinguishing Pleasure from Thrills would drive home the point... a classic example would be my 35 km return drive from office in Fort to my home in the central s'urbs... done on most days post 9 pm.... moderately good roads.... dwindling traffic.... the music of ur choice.... ur the king of the roads.... - Thrill for me is when i zoom thru and cover the distance in 30-35 mins of total high alert.. edge of seat.... vroom vroom driving... - And pleasure is when, i am on cruise mode... and am generally slipping and easing thru the traffic.... accelaration is generally gradual.... cruise speed would be 90 kmph on the eastern express..... stress free driving.... (Had a better analogy to differentiate between Thrills and Pleasure.. but then.. thot i'd stick to driving..... ) so if u were to build on this example.. - all the adrenalin rush relate driving would get categorised under Thrill... - and all the cruise mode, relaxed drives would get categorised as Pleasure... and hence my signature...... Drive for the pleasure of it..... not the thrill!!
	() Thanks

19th March 2005, 18:55	#8
Shan2nu Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Hubli - Karnata Posts: 5,533 Thanked: 125 Times View My Garage	Well, i would disagree. When i drive on the Hubli-Ankola road, i usually cruise at 120kmph, on an expressway 120 would have been boring but, on these roads it can be quite thrilling. But, at the same time, i'm not on the limit, i'm calm and not on the edge of my seat. You don't have be go overboard to get thrilled, i get it when ever i take a turn which i feel was precise, calculated and quick at the same time. Rash driving with aggressive driving inputs is not my idea of thrill. But then again thrill levels differ in many ways. We do 160kmph and feel great but if you ask an F1 driver, he'll say "160kmph? Man that's boring speed". So, pleasurable driving isn't always slow, it can be fast too. Shan2nu
	() Thanks

19th March 2005, 19:33	#9
vivaid BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 71 Thanked: 3 Times	well shan... I guess you dint get the essence of my response.... nowhere do i mention that pleasurable driving needs to be slow driving.... the intention is to understand the threshold which separates thrill driving and pleasure driving.... Taking cues from ur response .... if 120 on the hubli ankola road is thrilling for you... then i would probably classify pleasure driving for u at probably 100.. when u would have been a lil more relaxed.... unless 100 is again on the boring side for u in a nut- shell..... "Cruise mode".. might be a better word.... albeit in the colloquial sense of the word.... and yes.. if its the thrill that gives you the pleasure... well.. then.... nothing more to add!!! cheers....
	() Thanks

2nd November 2005, 16:01	#11
IndianDawg BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Mumbai, India Posts: 95 Thanked: Once View My Garage	Driving pleasure? SPEED and only SPEED. definately driving safe but when the empty lane arrives i accelerate and dont bother how much kmph i touch but speed that makes you feel very fast and driving perfectly , safely that gives me pleasure not touching 140 kmph or anything but driving very fast but should be safely and perfection should be there that makes me feel that i am a very good driver overall
	() Thanks

2nd November 2005, 20:23	#12
ananthkamath Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mangalore Posts: 1,209 Thanked: 80 Times View My Garage	My definition of driving pleasure: (In order of importance) A1) Suspension Response: Most important factor. Turn-in should be crisp & aggressive with no body roll; Mid-corner predictability should good. 1) Steering Response : any input on the wheel must translate into instant output from the front wheels. 2) Gearbox Feel: Must be direct and positive; especially the dog leg shifts like 2-3 & 4-5. 3) Throttle Response: Must be good; in other words in-gear acceleration is much more important in the real world rather than 0-100 or 0-160. 4) Brake Modulation: Must have good bite at high speeds with progression being more important at low speeds. 5) Ergonomics: As someone said, everything must fall to hand easily; the relationship between pedals-wheel-gear lever must be comfortable. 6) Seat: Must offer excellent side support while cornering and good lumbar & thigh support. (which is why I am making my own seats)
	() Thanks

2nd November 2005, 21:38	#14
The Wolf Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 1,118 Thanked: 71 Times	Driving Pleasure= Ease of driving(in complete controll of the car) + Feel of the car(confidence and snagfree disposure) and behaviour( what image the car renders you to the outside world) *Behaviour: Might not be applicable to drivers above 45yrs in most case...
	() Thanks

2nd November 2005, 21:39	#15
msprabhakar BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 266 Thanked: 88 Times	1. An even road and steady traffic 2. A quiet cabin with 92.5 FM on, preferably with Jaggu & Tarana on "Good morning, Mumbai" show!
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