How to handle this fraud?

nirmalts · 14th October 2008, 23:21

One of my friends has been cheated by his ex-employer. He is in a tough situation now. Would like to ask you guys on advise on how he could possibly handle this.

He has been working with a software firm in Bangalore from 2004-06. After that he joined another firm and worked until 2008. The first employer was a startup and they never gave him an appointment letter and kept on delaying it giving one reason or the other. When he resigned in 2006, they gave him an experience letter for 2005-06 only. He did not think it is a big issue and ignored it at that time. Now in 2008 he got an offer from a reputed company. He had given in CV his experience with previous both employers. The investigation agency of this company contacted the first employer and they denied that he has been working with them during 2004-05. The agency treated this as a case of fraud and he lost the good offer. He is now jobless and in a tough situation. The ex-employer is still not willing to giving his experience letter for the first year saying they cannot legally show that they employed people during this time. If he doesnt show the experience of 2004-05, he will have the explain why he has a gap between his academics and first job.

As proof only thing he has is bank statements of salary transfer. The transfer is from a private account to his account but the remarks says "<company name> Salary".

Is there any point taking a legal route in this case? Is there a possibility of immediate actions in such cases?

Please advice

Thanks,

Nirmal

yzfrj · 14th October 2008, 23:52

That is bad, Jobless now when the market is on a downward slope.
Poor guy.

He should have got something on paper, salary credited (bank statement) can be treated as proof but it really depends on the company and the policy they have in place.

A salary slip would have been better.
But I don't think the bank statement will hold good with most companies.
You can try, but for this this fact should have been mentioned up front.
Else they (company) will think you (potential candidate) is trying to hide something or putting in "fake" experience (lot of people do this, I really don't know why).

I'm not sure about the legal route, but even if there is that will take sometime.

My suggestion will be, assuming your friend is on good terms with the HR of the ex-employer have a personal chat and explain the situation and get a letter from them saying that he was on probation/apprenticeship for the initial term.

Also keep some reference from that company (ex-team members).
Keep them posted on the situation as well.

No one will want try to spoil a guy's career (unless the HR and PM are really evil like my ex-employer, I know a guy who got terminated reason being he took leave as his father was admitted in hospital due to a heart attack)

HotChillyPepper · 15th October 2008, 00:04

Thats really sad....
I hope he must be having a PF account right from beginning of his employment. With the PF account number he can have a statement from his PF operator. In PF statement, the Company who has paid the amount will be mentioned. Along with a detailed Bank statement, he can approach the last company who has offered/hired him. Be frank and tell them the story. I believe anyone working in a private firm can understand the situation. If not then he can file a case and get the damage paid by them( but will take years ).
First of all he should keep in touch with his present HR. He should tell them that all details I have furnished on resume is real and I need a months time to prove that. Ask their assistance on the same. I dont think any HR would like to sack an innocent guy and definitely the will help him.

I know a similar case happened with one guy, he has followed the above mentioned way, and the ex-employer them self settled the case outside court ( He had filed a case against the VP HR of that company ). They called up the present employer of that guy and clarified all details.

Lalvaz · 15th October 2008, 00:26

Well, IMO the bank statements should help bolster his claims. Showing those to the HR dept and explaining everything should be a good first step to resolving this vexed issue. However, he must have other materials, such as appraisal letters, training materials, or emails from that period which could help him as well.

mmmjgm · 15th October 2008, 00:40

PF account credits & Form 16 (mandatory by law to provide by every employer deducting tax/having TAN account).

He can also plead to the new employer stating that he was employed by as a startup he never got his appointment/offer letter initially.

Beyond pleading he's not able to do a lot. 3rd party verification agencies also leave a lot to be desired.

PF account can clear 99% of doubts.

Cheers
M M

subscrive · 15th October 2008, 06:28

PF account entries and Form 16.

mjothi · 15th October 2008, 06:54

Yes, PF & Form 16 will be rescue. But I doubt if this "startup" guys have any proper record for the 2004-05, since the post says "for some reason" they can legally show people employed in that year.

Its bad luck. Ask him to check if he has any correspondence with the company or the client he was working for during that period.

Good luck.

ak916 · 15th October 2008, 08:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lalvaz

Well, IMO the bank statements should help bolster his claims. Showing those to the HR dept and explaining everything should be a good first step to resolving this vexed issue. However, he must have other materials, such as appraisal letters, training materials, or emails from that period which could help him as well.

100% agree with the above suggestion. I have been in hiring and recruitment and I will buy it, IF I can find reason. All companies understand that we dont live in an ideal world!

appuchan · 15th October 2008, 09:26

Produce proof of employment such as...

Salary slips
PF statement
Bank statement
Form 16/IT return
Welcome mail/letter/pack when he joined the company
Appraisal letter
Other mail correspondence from his superiors
Written letter from his ex-boss/HR manager
Any other letter he might have obtained from them for address proof,salary certificate etc (for loans, credit cards, telephone/cell connection...)
...etc

SLK · 15th October 2008, 09:31

And, if need be he should have this fact that "his ex-employer does not want to give a experience letter for that period because he was not legally allowed to show people employed in that legal entity" documented and ready to be presented along with bank statements, other evidences, etc.

HappyWheels · 15th October 2008, 09:46

What about getting some of your ex-collegues as "witness" to the fact that you were working there to the new company?

As mentioned above, the new company HR would be more than willing to give a patient hearing to what your friend has to say. Especially when someone is dealing with experience in startups.

kalpeshc · 15th October 2008, 10:38

Maybe he can request the ex-employer to give him a letter saying that he was hired as an independent consultant (and not on the payrolls). The ex-company definitely may have a reason for not giving him a letter identifying him as an employee in 04-05. But they may agree to the fact that he was an independent consultant whose services were hired in 04-05.

BaCkSeAtDrIVeR · 15th October 2008, 11:59

The ex-employer cannot "show" your friend as an employee, but they surely could have given proper info to the "investigating agency"??

The proper way out would to be file a case for defamation, cheating and fraud.

GTO · 15th October 2008, 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaCkSeAtDrIVeR

The proper way out would to be file a case for defamation, cheating and fraud.

Whoa, watch it cowboy! No potential employer will look kindly upon an employee who has sued his ex-organisation.

kutlee · 15th October 2008, 17:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTO

Whoa, watch it cowboy! No potential employer will look kindly upon an employee who has sued his ex-organisation.

Is the reverse OK?? just a thought.

i think your friend can scramble his emails, documents (any travel docs), PF statements, salary accounts, offer letter emails, photos anything related and try and convince the new employer to reconsider the offer. There is nothing much that can be done since the employer simply won't take the risk as there are enough in the market (may be i am wrong) unless they are very interested in a specific case.
suing vueing etc not going to work atleast in getting the new job. All the best for a job.
Or use this opportunity to find another stream (even a flood releif participation) and may be really helpful in getting in to a good b-school. There are too many other options available..watch out... take a break..kit kat..

14th October 2008, 23:21	#1
nirmalts BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Stuttgart, Germ Posts: 252 Thanked: 7 Times View My Garage	How to handle this fraud? One of my friends has been cheated by his ex-employer. He is in a tough situation now. Would like to ask you guys on advise on how he could possibly handle this. He has been working with a software firm in Bangalore from 2004-06. After that he joined another firm and worked until 2008. The first employer was a startup and they never gave him an appointment letter and kept on delaying it giving one reason or the other. When he resigned in 2006, they gave him an experience letter for 2005-06 only. He did not think it is a big issue and ignored it at that time. Now in 2008 he got an offer from a reputed company. He had given in CV his experience with previous both employers. The investigation agency of this company contacted the first employer and they denied that he has been working with them during 2004-05. The agency treated this as a case of fraud and he lost the good offer. He is now jobless and in a tough situation. The ex-employer is still not willing to giving his experience letter for the first year saying they cannot legally show that they employed people during this time. If he doesnt show the experience of 2004-05, he will have the explain why he has a gap between his academics and first job. As proof only thing he has is bank statements of salary transfer. The transfer is from a private account to his account but the remarks says "<company name> Salary". Is there any point taking a legal route in this case? Is there a possibility of immediate actions in such cases? Please advice Thanks, Nirmal
	() Thanks

14th October 2008, 23:52	#2
yzfrj BHPian Join Date: May 2008 Location: who cares Posts: 787 Thanked: 142 Times	That is bad, Jobless now when the market is on a downward slope. Poor guy. He should have got something on paper, salary credited (bank statement) can be treated as proof but it really depends on the company and the policy they have in place. A salary slip would have been better. But I don't think the bank statement will hold good with most companies. You can try, but for this this fact should have been mentioned up front. Else they (company) will think you (potential candidate) is trying to hide something or putting in "fake" experience (lot of people do this, I really don't know why). I'm not sure about the legal route, but even if there is that will take sometime. My suggestion will be, assuming your friend is on good terms with the HR of the ex-employer have a personal chat and explain the situation and get a letter from them saying that he was on probation/apprenticeship for the initial term. Also keep some reference from that company (ex-team members). Keep them posted on the situation as well. No one will want try to spoil a guy's career (unless the HR and PM are really evil like my ex-employer, I know a guy who got terminated reason being he took leave as his father was admitted in hospital due to a heart attack)
	() Thanks

15th October 2008, 00:04	#3
HotChillyPepper BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bang_a_lore Posts: 628 Thanked: 291 Times View My Garage	Thats really sad.... I hope he must be having a PF account right from beginning of his employment. With the PF account number he can have a statement from his PF operator. In PF statement, the Company who has paid the amount will be mentioned. Along with a detailed Bank statement, he can approach the last company who has offered/hired him. Be frank and tell them the story. I believe anyone working in a private firm can understand the situation. If not then he can file a case and get the damage paid by them( but will take years ). First of all he should keep in touch with his present HR. He should tell them that all details I have furnished on resume is real and I need a months time to prove that. Ask their assistance on the same. I dont think any HR would like to sack an innocent guy and definitely the will help him. I know a similar case happened with one guy, he has followed the above mentioned way, and the ex-employer them self settled the case outside court ( He had filed a case against the VP HR of that company ). They called up the present employer of that guy and clarified all details. Last edited by HotChillyPepper : 15th October 2008 at 00:13.
	() Thanks

15th October 2008, 00:26	#4
Lalvaz Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,423 Thanked: 2,261 Times	Well, IMO the bank statements should help bolster his claims. Showing those to the HR dept and explaining everything should be a good first step to resolving this vexed issue. However, he must have other materials, such as appraisal letters, training materials, or emails from that period which could help him as well.
	() Thanks

15th October 2008, 00:40	#5
mmmjgm BHPian Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: BOM, PNQ, DXB Posts: 398 Thanked: 30 Times	PF account credits & Form 16 (mandatory by law to provide by every employer deducting tax/having TAN account). He can also plead to the new employer stating that he was employed by as a startup he never got his appointment/offer letter initially. Beyond pleading he's not able to do a lot. 3rd party verification agencies also leave a lot to be desired. PF account can clear 99% of doubts. Cheers M M
	() Thanks

15th October 2008, 06:28	#6
subscrive BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pune Posts: 258 Thanked: 30 Times View My Garage	PF account entries and Form 16.
	() Thanks

15th October 2008, 06:54	#7
mjothi Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 3,290 Thanked: 232 Times View My Garage	Yes, PF & Form 16 will be rescue. But I doubt if this "startup" guys have any proper record for the 2004-05, since the post says "for some reason" they can legally show people employed in that year. Its bad luck. Ask him to check if he has any correspondence with the company or the client he was working for during that period. Good luck.
	() Thanks

15th October 2008, 09:26	#9
appuchan BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Bangy Posts: 645 Thanked: 27 Times	Produce proof of employment such as... Salary slips PF statement Bank statement Form 16/IT return Welcome mail/letter/pack when he joined the company Appraisal letter Other mail correspondence from his superiors Written letter from his ex-boss/HR manager Any other letter he might have obtained from them for address proof,salary certificate etc (for loans, credit cards, telephone/cell connection...) ...etc
	() Thanks

15th October 2008, 09:31	#10
SLK Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: DL3C>HR26 Posts: 1,684 Thanked: 1,190 Times	And, if need be he should have this fact that "his ex-employer does not want to give a experience letter for that period because he was not legally allowed to show people employed in that legal entity" documented and ready to be presented along with bank statements, other evidences, etc.
	() Thanks

15th October 2008, 09:46	#11
HappyWheels Senior - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 4,143 Thanked: 566 Times	What about getting some of your ex-collegues as "witness" to the fact that you were working there to the new company? As mentioned above, the new company HR would be more than willing to give a patient hearing to what your friend has to say. Especially when someone is dealing with experience in startups.
	() Thanks

15th October 2008, 10:38	#12
kalpeshc BHPian Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 537 Thanked: 141 Times	Maybe he can request the ex-employer to give him a letter saying that he was hired as an independent consultant (and not on the payrolls). The ex-company definitely may have a reason for not giving him a letter identifying him as an employee in 04-05. But they may agree to the fact that he was an independent consultant whose services were hired in 04-05.
	() Thanks

15th October 2008, 11:59	#13
BaCkSeAtDrIVeR Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kochi Posts: 2,541 Thanked: 755 Times	The ex-employer cannot "show" your friend as an employee, but they surely could have given proper info to the "investigating agency"?? The proper way out would to be file a case for defamation, cheating and fraud.
	() Thanks