[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by hrag

The problem is with the perception that an "onsite" assignment is like taking an elevator to success while "offshore" assignments are like having to build your own staircase to growth and then climb it. While others at the top pour boiling oil and throw stones down at you .

Exactly, thats what his manager said too. He was coaxing him to go for the onsite, that it would be a huge leap in his career and will open newer avenues to well go for more onsite. LOL.

He had all the rights to not go and he did just that with valid reasons.

Everyone wants to go onsite and if you say no you are the untouchable, the minority like you said. For some it is the joy of adding pictures to their online profile's.

Originally Posted by mmmjgm

I remember a case where an employee of IBM (first name Gaurav) was asked to pull down a blog against IIPM or resign, he resigned.

There are worser cases, i came across. Probably for another thread.

IBM thru its subsidiary rocked, fresher promoted in four weeks. Chamatkar/Ya ? The zenith of bad taste to the remainder of the promoted employee's colleagues.

Tell me about it. IBM is a place of extremes. Both good and bad.


Note from the Team-BHP Support Team : Please use the "edit" button if posting within 15 minutes of the first post, instead of creating another back-to-back post

Also use "Multi Quote" option for quoting Multiple posts.

[sbasak]

Why does X sign the agreement / bond in the first place?

Long time back in TCS, whenever people used to go abroad, EVERYTIME they had to sign a bond. After sometime, they changed the procedure where one had to sign an agreement bond only when going abroad first time. For subsequent onsite visit, there was no further signing of bond. The way initial bond was written that it might conclude that on your second onsite visit onward, you don't need to follow the bond rule.

as HR manager may be just a few years older to me but he somehow believed that he owns TCS and thought himself to be all important and refused to receive the resignation

Exactly same this happened with me. In most comapnies, HR guys serve technical people. In TCS, HR rules the company.

Now I think that I shall contact TCS Head Office at Bombay directly!

My project manager in typical PM fashion refused to send a mail stating that he can release me and wrote a mail instead that he consider me important resource

What a co-incident! My account manager did exactly the same!

This is EXACTLY what they try to blackmail you with - bad references!

I was naive enough to mention in which company I was joining. The TCS HR literally told me that they would contact my new employer and would tell them how bad employee I was! Fortunately my new employer never asked for reference letter from TCS.

TCS also doesn't allow anyone to change immigration status at onsite. They don't provide employer's letter for Green Card [USA] or Permanent Residency [UK] even if employees are eligible for that.

I had quite enjoyable work experience in TCS. All my colleagues were very nice. But the HR was horrible. In fact, HR is the Achilles Hill of TCS.

[mmmjgm]

Originally Posted by sbasak

Long time back in TCS, whenever people used to go abroad, EVERYTIME they had to sign a bond. After sometime, they changed the procedure where one had to sign an agreement bond only when going abroad first time. For subsequent onsite visit, there was no further signing of bond. The way initial bond was written that it might conclude that on your second onsite visit onward, you don't need to follow the bond rule.

Now I think that I shall contact TCS Head Office at Bombay directly!

What a co-incident! My account manager did exactly the same!

I was naive enough to mention in which company I was joining. The TCS HR literally told me that they would contact my new employer and would tell them how bad employee I was! Fortunately my new employer never asked for reference letter from TCS.

TCS also doesn't allow anyone to change immigration status at onsite. They don't provide employer's letter for Green Card [USA] or Permanent Residency [UK] even if employees are eligible for that.
.

Bonds are not legal, training or no training, check my previous posts in the same thread.

What year was this in ? (signing of a bond each time you went onsite)

FYI - we too signed a bond, but we had management socializing with us onsite, they said its toilet paper. Post the team's return couple of people tested the toilet paper theory and voila it worked !

Some senior must have proposed the bond, every one did the "yes sir" thingy post that, just like the pointy haired people in Lehman Bros, Citibanks, RBS etc did when it was decision time to invest in Sub Prime Mortgage bonds.

Well actually speaking proper man management and a formal career path for all employees is the best way to manage people.

Surprising how a company can manipulate immigration procedures to their benefit, highly illegal, FYI - when in doubt in the USA please open the yellow pages, the first section which runs into hundreds of pages "Attorney" has the unique ability to provide surprising results.

Cheers & God Bless.

M

[ntomer]

Originally Posted by mmmjgm

I remember a case where an employee of IBM (first name Gaurav) was asked to pull down a blog against IIPM or resign, he resigned.

Gaurav Sabnis wasn't asked to resign; he left IBM on his own to save it from the embarrassment IIPM could have caused it.

In his own words -

I have resigned from IBM. The decision is entirely my own and I was not asked by IBM to resign, nor was I pressured in any manner by any executive from IBM. I took the decision in view of some really bizarre threats that were apparently made by IIPM to IBM.

Link - Vantage point: An Update

\N

[kb100]

There was this survey done where selected employees of the top 500 companies were asked to rate the various departments of their organisation as ones contributing or noncontribiting to the companies growth.

The result was quite interesting!

Over 93% rated HR as a usless entity! Only 7% thought they added any value!!

Personally, in my experience, most ppl manning HR functions have an HR degree and very little else! They have very low EQ coupled to not having the slightest inkling how to manage people, and generally are the most hated people in any organisation!

I blame this on our educational system- while it imparts the knowledge , absolutely no attempt is made at imparting skills! Hell education is such a BIG business that no attempt is made even to check aptitude before allowing these ppl to take their electives/ specilizations! Therefore we keep churning out an alarming number of misfits!

I teach a lot of these MBA kids.. It's interesting
To hear WHY they chose their specialization- ESP HR!! :-)

[sammyboy]

Originally Posted by kb100

There was this survey done where selected employees of the top 500 companies were asked to rate the various departments of their organisation as ones contributing or noncontribiting to the companies growth.

The result was quite interesting!

Over 93% rated HR as a usless entity! Only 7% thought they added any value!!

Personally, in my experience, most ppl manning HR functions have an HR degree and very little else! They have very low EQ coupled to not having the slightest inkling how to manage people, and generally are the most hated people in any organisation!

I blame this on our educational system- while it imparts the knowledge , absolutely no attempt is made at imparting skills! Hell education is such a BIG business that no attempt is made even to check aptitude before allowing these ppl to take their electives/ specilizations! Therefore we keep churning out an alarming number of misfits!

I teach a lot of these MBA kids.. It's interesting
To hear WHY they chose their specialization- ESP HR!! :-)

I know what you mean bro, after spending about 6 years in BPO and IT trg depts (and other experience) I got an offer from a large organisation to manage their IT training dept. as a part of the HR team. Now I didnt have a HR degree but knew more about trg than the complete team together so took up the challenge. Had ppl from top business schools along with me and within a very short period of time I started understanding that all they knew was theory and big words, a very very small percentage were actually bothered enough to try and make a difference. It was completely clerical work and people were just another statistic. I couldnt take it for more than 6 months. My shortest stint ever but I know each day felt longer than a year.
One day just went and gave everyone a piece of my mind and put down my papers, no job in hand nothing just quit it was so frustrating.

Edit : My PF has still not been released after a year of applying.

[kuttapan]

After reading all this, I feel I need to put down my experience. I used to work with SAP Labs in India, and PF was not forthcoming even after 7 months of resignation. Send a mail to Payroll head and he personally follows up with Hewitt(to whom this stuff is outsourced to) and the VOILA! the PF arrives soon. Superannuation etc was also late, but a mail to HR elicited wonderful response.

This is what I like about SAP Labs, an employee can get himself heard, no matter what. I like the German way of managing companies, if SAP is an example. Nobody - your manager or the HR can play games with you as long as you do your work diligently and is in the clear. You do something wrong and you can find yourself out of the door in minutes too(as one of my colleagues found out) - Again, German efficiency - Clinical and precise.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by kb100

Over 93% rated HR as a usless entity! Only 7% thought they added any value!! Personally, in my experience, most ppl manning HR functions have an HR degree and very little else!

TCS hires most of their top HR people from the military. Besides, I found one interesting info during my exit interview. Since the HR chap exit-interviewing me was lot junior to me, he didn't try any tricks. Instead we had a relaxed talk and he told me that TCS is the best place for HR people. In the HR industry, TCS HR was the best paid and most empowered.

During my 6 years, there was one HR person who was very impressive and was a pleasure to deal with. Since we both were of similar age, we had great rapport with each other. His name was D P Nambiar and I believe he still works with TCS. Other than him I can't recall anybody who would instill any confidence in TCS HR. The ones in abroad branches were considered no better than vampires, they were ruthless in their dealings wth employees.

Originally Posted by amitk26

I submitted my resignation but there was one Mr. Novnil Bhattacharya as HR manager may be just a few years older to me but he somehow believed that he owns TCS and thought himself to be all important and refused to receive the resignation.

I think they have a standing order to refuse every resignation. I submitted my resignation directly to my immediate boss, the RM of Bangalore branch R Ramanan, later he became head of CMC. After few minutes of chat he approved the resignation. When I submitted the same to the HR head that evening, his first reaction was refusal. When I asked whether he can override RM's recommendation, he was dumb enough to call the RM's office to check whether the RM had really approved the resignation.

Originally Posted by mmmjgm

Tata companies (i've audited a few of them - the flagship ones) are very very ethical in their dealings. I really do not know how TCS has the impression of being a bully in the market.

Until the late 90s, you can safely conclude TCS was being very unethical towards the employees. I don't know after that since I moved out, and so did FCK. But in the 90s they kept their nose clean while dealing with governments. And that happened after the bloody nose they received in early 90s when the US news show 60 Minutes ripped them apart.

Originally Posted by mmmjgm

Bonds are not legal, training or no training, check my previous posts in the same thread.

What year was this in ? (signing of a bond each time you went onsite)

This was the practice in the 90s. TCS used to publish photographs of bond breaking employees on local newspapers claiming that the person is absconding, owes money to the company, etc., basically doing character assassination of such employees. Fighting an army of lawyers from TCS was not really an option for most ex-employees.

[amitk26]

Originally Posted by kuttapan

After reading all this, I feel I need to put down my experience. I used to work with SAP Labs in India, and PF was not forthcoming even after 7 months of resignation. Send a mail to Payroll head and he personally follows up with Hewitt(to whom this stuff is outsourced to) and the VOILA! the PF arrives soon. Superannuation etc was also late, but a mail to HR elicited wonderful response.

This is what I like about SAP Labs, an employee can get himself heard, no matter what. I like the German way of managing companies, if SAP is an example. Nobody - your manager or the HR can play games with you as long as you do your work diligently and is in the clear. You do something wrong and you can find yourself out of the door in minutes too(as one of my colleagues found out) - Again, German efficiency - Clinical and precise.

Its not German or American it's fund manager Hewitt associates same people were doing for Motorola as well and took 11 mths when I shifted from there

[kuttapan]

Originally Posted by amitk26

Its not German or American it's fund manager Hewitt associates same people were doing for Motorola as well and took 11 mths when I shifted from there

Is that what you understood after reading my post? All I was saying was at SAP, one could easily followup and elicit a response from HR, even after having severed ties with the company. Gotcha?

[Wheeliej]

Hi all,

Many people have already said so, so my post is just a re-iteration.

What I didnt understand is whether you want to withdraw your PF or transfer it to your new employer.

Nobody can with-hold PF settlement/transfer. Check your pay-slip, your PF no. will be mentioned clearly on that. That is the account in which your funds are held by the PF Commissioner. See if you can get a PF consultant to apply for the refund. If it is just a transfer your new company will process the transfer.

Write to the PF Commissioner (alongwith a copy of the letters exchanged with TCS) that you have requested for PF settlement/transfer from TCS and that the same has not been

Before that do a simple exercise of sending a letter by registered post to TCS once again asking for PF settlement / transfer. We are very dependent on emails but for government work we do need to have some old-world communication.

w.r.t unethical HR practices, you can also write to the Labour Commissioner's office on lco@kar.nic (for Karnataka)

btw, in these times of recession, if anyone loses his / her job and is out of a job for 2 months or more, they can apply for a refund of their PF moneys. Here too your old company can help in the process. Once an application has been made the refund must come in 60 days else the PF Commissioner's salary will be with-held.

Cheers.

[condor]

Spitfire : The HR there sucks. Once out of the firm they dont care about the ex-employee.
Spitfire : Oh and the company is IBM.

@Spitfire,
I am not really sure if the above two statements are related.

Pls name a few (large) companies that show full / sufficient care & concern to an ex-employee. Esp in the case of an ex-employee who is trying to get something completed by HR of his prev company and does not have a personal aquaintance /relationship with the concerned people in that HR.

There are companies that dont seem to care for existing employees, forget ex-employees.

Btw, from what I understand IBM's an ocean, even in India. If that's the case, even an employee may sometimes feel a little less responded to - since he will not be able to talk to a person as much as he talks to a process.

[Spitfire]

Originally Posted by condor

@Spitfire,
I am not really sure if the above two statements are related.

Yes they are.

Pls name a few (large) companies that show full / sufficient care & concern to an ex-employee.

Only 2 other companies i have worked can be called "large" - DELL and Accenture. I have worked in the above 2 firms and i have had no concerns with them regarding any HR related issues.

Esp in the case of an ex-employee who is trying to get something completed by HR of his prev company and does not have a personal aquaintance /relationship with the concerned people in that HR.

We are talking about some big companies here right? How long does it take to accomplish any of the above queries for an ex - employee? I worked in SAP HR implementation - i know what software they use and how long it takes to pull up information or reply to queries.

Also "large" companies have equally "large" HR teams. A HR team of a company having 200 employees compared to 2 lakh will surely be different.

Accenture and DELL never had an issue with my queries or transfers. The longest they took was 48 hours for some money they owed back to me.

There are companies that dont seem to care for existing employees, forget ex-employees.

Agree, but i guess its the people who make the company and thats our grouse.

Btw, from what I understand IBM's an ocean, even in India. If that's the case, even an employee may sometimes feel a little less responded to - since he will not be able to talk to a person as much as he talks to a process.

Large ocean yes, with some very innovative policies and processes created for the benefit of its employees. The processes there are quite strong and thorough. But the weakest link are the employees who are not able to sometimes understand the process nor make decisions. Its always some manager that needs to give the final answer.

[HappyWheels]

With all this discussion , I just realized that I had a PF balance with my previous organization and had asked for transfer of the balance to my current company.

Checked with my finance team and it seems like it was transferred a almost a year back!

But, when I worked there, I recollect following up for the same with the HR for another person who had moved out.

[sam_boy]

Originally Posted by kuttapan

After reading all this, I feel I need to put down my experience. I used to work with SAP Labs in India, and PF was not forthcoming even after 7 months of resignation. Send a mail to Payroll head and he personally follows up with Hewitt(to whom this stuff is outsourced to) and the VOILA! the PF arrives soon. Superannuation etc was also late, but a mail to HR elicited wonderful response.

This is what I like about SAP Labs, an employee can get himself heard, no matter what. I like the German way of managing companies, if SAP is an example. Nobody - your manager or the HR can play games with you as long as you do your work diligently and is in the clear. You do something wrong and you can find yourself out of the door in minutes too(as one of my colleagues found out) - Again, German efficiency - Clinical and precise.

When I resigned from TCS my PF and all the financial parts were settled within a month and had no problems what so ever. Even I got calls from them telling the amount has been transfered. So I would not say they treat ex-employees badly. For me they were good. Now I may be an exception.

Originally Posted by Samurai

TCS hires most of their top HR people from the military. Besides, I found one interesting info during my exit interview. Since the HR chap exit-interviewing me was lot junior to me, he didn't try any tricks. Instead we had a relaxed talk and he told me that TCS is the best place for HR people. In the HR industry, TCS HR was the best paid and most empowered.

During my 6 years, there was one HR person who was very impressive and was a pleasure to deal with. Since we both were of similar age, we had great rapport with each other. His name was D P Nambiar and I believe he still works with TCS. Other than him I can't recall anybody who would instill any confidence in TCS HR. The ones in abroad branches were considered no better than vampires, they were ruthless in their dealings wth employees.

Well Well ... I think TCS admin people are mostly from the Armed Forces but not the HRs ... When I resigned I wrote a mail to my immediate Boss .. He was forcing me for a long term to Belgium and I was denying as I just got married that time and did not want to go for a long term ... so things were not very smooth between us .. He called me for a discussion after I put the papers and agreed to release me within a week as he was scared I will also try to take few team members .. An HR tried to talk to me all those days and tried to convince by giving me so many reasons to stay with them, but I liked the way she spoke to me and dealt with things. I was with Chennai TCS and had a notion that Chennai HRs are much better than anywhere else. I had horrible experiences from Delhi recruitment teams. They treat freshers badly who call to know the status of their interviews.