[johnjacob]

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

I'm sorry but the british never did anything for the natives of India.

It's easy to say........ "If the british weren't here, we wouldn't have had a railway network".

But then again, they never built it for our benefit.

Their so called contribution is nothing compared to the amount of damage they've caused to India.

Hmmm, I've been following this thread for a while, now it's my turn to jump in.

I agree with Shantanu : everything that the British did in India was for motivated by their own benefit. Any benefits or gains that we Indians obtained from their activities were purely incidental.

But this is equaly true for all the kings and conquerors and chieftains who have ruled in India from time immemorial. The mughals, and all the countless other rulers we have had in history, all ruled with the primary of benefiting themselves. Sure, we have had some rulers who are revered today (like Ashoka) but these were exceptions rather than the rule. Hey, if we made Ashoka Prime Minister today, he would probably be voted out in the next election for his autocracy. The only difference between the British and the rulers before them is that the British looted from the Indian public and sent the spoils to the England, whereas the rulers before them looted the Indian public and kept the spoils in India for themselves. Same difference, if you ask me.

And the same is true for the democratically elected leaders today - none of them enter politics to make India a better place, but instead to enjoy the trappings of power and all the associated benefits. The only difference is that politicians today cannot be too blatant or obvious in pursuing power for their own interests since they will be voted out in the next election. And for the same reason they have to atleast APPEAR to be doing something for the common man. The voting public are not fools.

So, the only reason our situation is different today is due to the institution of democracy. And who gets credit for that? The French!

[adya33]

Originally Posted by RX135

Nope, it certainly didn't come as thrown biscuit. It was hard fought battle.

sorry was caught with some work so couldn't reply earlier

ofcourse the freedom wasn't thrown at us. but had it been the first way (making request after request) of M Gandhi then it surley would have been.

it kinda doesn't remind you of earlier post ?

Originally Posted by RX135

Tilak chose ahimsa since it was more apt tool in that situation. There was no better alternative available at that time, so may be you can say it was compulsion.

doesn't this mean M Gandhi was forced to fight for freedom as at that time making request after request was no good option?

Nothing comes for free

& I was under impression that you were a open source supporter.

ok ok i will hold that debate for later on

Originally Posted by johnjacob

So, the only reason our situation is different today is due to the institution of democracy. And who gets credit for that? The French!

just because we (Indians) manage to screw democracy doesn't mean French should be blammed for it.

[v1p3r]

We Indians did not screw up democracy in any way. Other than the US, India is the only large democracy which has functioned perfectly since Independence, barring the days of the Emergency. And compared to India, the American electorate is tiny.

[adya33]

Originally Posted by v1p3r

We Indians did not screw up democracy in any way. Other than the US, India is the only large democracy which has functioned perfectly since Independence, barring the days of the Emergency. And compared to India, the American electorate is tiny.

India largest democrasy : I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

this sentence shows the real problem of this country
POPULATION
western countries know that if we (Indians) take some serious action against population problem & get our foot down then western countries days are numbered (just look what china is doing)

so to keep indian peoples head we are described as "WORLD LARGEST DEMOCRATIC COUNTRY" its just an illusion created by westrn countries

& if you are calling what currently going as perfectly working democracy then why debate further ?

[dadudeonfire]

this is what always happens in every post...started talking about aamir khans mangal pandey..then british did this that then democracy and after this we might start talking about laloo prasaad type people..then rabri devi...then shekhar suman..then laughter challenge..and then what now..please stick to the topic guys

[v1p3r]

Don't you wonder, that despite all our problems, we get together every 5 years to elect someone who doesn't actually run the country into the ground? Or try to take over power for a more permanent term? That the people we elect seem to be, all said and done, rather decent and honest? That you honestly can't think of one really bad Prime Minister? That is the magic of Indian democracy.

You may think that the world's largest democracy tag is just a Western invention. Well, so is democracy itself! You should stop believing that all such tags are Western inventions to keep us happy.

Do you know how China puts its foot down, as you put it? No one is allowed to have more than one child. Any unwanted pregnancies are terminated at state expense, withoutthe consent of the parents. If any pregnancies are successful, the child is snatched away from the parents and sent to a state orphanage.

Have you ever been asked how many brothers or sisters you have? This is one question no child in China is familiar with. If freedom is the price of progress, I'd rather remain backward.

[adya33]

That the people we elect seem to be, all said and done, rather decent and honest?

if being decent & honest means having fights in paralments, being mannerless, taking advantage of any & every opportunity
then our politicians are ROLE MODELS for being DECENT & HONEST

That you honestly can't think of one really bad Prime Minister? That is the magic of Indian democracy.

I can name few, but I won't go into that for now, as I don't have any interest in shifting this topic to another subject again.

You may think that the world's largest democracy tag is just a Western invention. Well, so is democracy itself!

I am not arguing about which tag comes from where
but rather trying to show you that how westerns are making fool of us, & here we indian are shouting YESSS WE ARE THE WORLD LARGEST DEMOCRACY, get real mate we suck

Do you know how China puts its foot down, as you put it? No one is allowed to have more than one child. Any unwanted pregnancies are terminated at state expense, withoutthe consent of the parents. If any pregnancies are successful, the child is snatched away from the parents and sent to a state orphanage

I am very familier with China & their culture. Yes there is only one child allowed. & generally having second child makes life very very difficult, the families SOCIAL SECURITY number is deleted & they are also taxed haevily.
end result: they are wayyy ahead of us
that is one of the reason why scientists in China are researching for a medicine to have twins,
so can you see Chinese people accepted the rule quetly & are working to find a solution of it thats why they are years ahead of us. & here still we are having debates, bandha over helmet compultion rule.

Have you ever been asked how many brothers or sisters you have? This is one question no child in China is familiar with. If freedom is the price of progress, I'd rather remain backward.

freedom?
define freedom

[v1p3r]

Freedom is the ability to disagree with the governmet in public. It is the ability to boot them out if you don't like what they do. The ability to be the only one to decide how large or small your family is going to be.

By decent and honest politicians, I was referring to the PMs. Not to Laloo Yadav.

"Get real mate we suck"? Man, you seem to have a large sense of inferiority as far as our nation goes.

[adya33]

"Get real mate we suck"? Man, you seem to have a large sense of inferiority as far as our nation goes.

or may be I have sence of reality.

By decent and honest politicians, I was referring to the PMs. Not to Laloo Yadav.

I never took any names, & yes I was talking about PMs

The ability to be the only one to decide how large or small your family is going to be.

[v1p3r]

Obviously, you don't have any siblings, so the whole idea of family size gets you rolling on the floor in laughter.

I have nothing more to say. I am just a blinded-by-the-sunshine optimistic patriot. You are better informed, and certainly more wise to the ways of the world. You win.

[Surprise]

The historical record is limited.

http://www.indianexpress.com/full_st...ntent_id=72790

http://iecolumnists.expressindia.com...ntent_id=76883

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Surprise

The historical record is limited.

That's true indeed. Mangal Pandey's only real achievement is a dubious one. By his action he prematurely detonated the very carefully planned mutiny by a coalition of kings or commanders like Nana Saheb, Tantia Tope, Bahadur Shah Zafar, Laxmi Bai, etc. Instead of raising in unison across the country on the D-day, different parts of the country raised at different times and the mutiny failed miserably. We don't know whether it would have succeeded otherwise, but it would have had much better chance.

[Aditya]

I don't know about how good a movie Mangal Pandey is, but, I'm just back from Iqbal and I can tell you guys, it's brilliantly done. It's a "must see". Highly recommended by Aditya!

[Conan]

A bit off topic,
Adya, India is the only country where one billion people vote and the result of the entire nation is declared in 4 days flat. Can you imagine the logistics involved in such an acheivement?
Heck we can teach developed world a thing or two about democracy.
Relatively small country like phillipines has to wait for 1.5 months for a result.
If that is not a good democracy then wht is?

Now coming back to Mangal Pandey the movie, I feel we should have more such movies. It serves as an inspiration for the younger generation. No matter if the real story is contorted/dramatised. Such mythological, legendary heros, with a semblence of truth, are needed, rather than lousy love songs, stupid fight scenes, braindead comedies and dumbest storylines ever conceiveable.

Conan

[typeOnegative]

Originally Posted by Conan

A bit off topic,
Adya, India is the only country where one billion people vote and the result of the entire nation is declared in 4 days flat. Can you imagine the logistics involved in such an acheivement?
Heck we can teach developed world a thing or two about democracy.
Relatively small country like phillipines has to wait for 1.5 months for a result.
If that is not a good democracy then wht is?

Why do you think that results are required fast? So that the looting can start earlier. Jokes aside, there is more empowerment in other democracies. The stakes being high it pays to be cautious. But yes, whatever be the reason it is a phenomenal achievement.

Originally Posted by Conan

Now coming back to Mangal Pandey the movie, I feel we should have more such movies. It serves as an inspiration for the younger generation. No matter if the real story is contorted/dramatised. Such mythological, legendary heros, with a semblence of truth, are needed, rather than lousy love songs, stupid fight scenes, braindead comedies and dumbest storylines ever conceiveable.

Now this I totally agree with. But why mythological or legendary heroes. There are tonnes of ordinary Indians who may be greater than Mangal Pandey if we just look at their struggles. As I mentioned some where else, I was totally disappointed that Swades failed.