[praful]

Originally Posted by GoBabyGo

Do you think it is a good idea for her to move to Germany?

She could explore doing a masters in Germany, along with pursuing a German language course that could make her more attractive in the local job market as opposed to being a foreign worker looking for employment with limited (and potentially not any specialized) experience, which would increase her chances of being hired.

[GoBabyGo]

Originally Posted by praful

She could explore doing a masters in Germany, along with pursuing a German language course that could make her more attractive in the local job market as opposed to being a foreign worker looking for employment with limited (and potentially not any specialized) experience, which would increase her chances of being hired.

Thanks praful - She has joined a German language class starting this week. Pursuing a Master's degree is not on the cards at the moment, as she is more interested in working there. While I agree with your suggestion that doing a Master's in Germany would be a better option, she is not inclined to study for another two years to obtain a degree. As of now, I believe working in Germany for another two to three years and then enrolling in an Executive Master's program would be a more suitable. German universities do offer Executive MBA programs for candidates with 4 to 5 years of relevant work experience.

[shifu]

Originally Posted by GoBabyGo

Do you think it is a good idea for her to move to Germany? I believe Germany has a stable economy and is a safe & prosperous country.

....
I would appreciate your thoughts.

Until few months back I used to work for a German automaker here in India. My perspectives come from working there and spending quite some time in Germany in 2024.

- Learning German is a MUST. One can survive without that, but when you speak German an invisible wall between you and the local population disappears. They are very proud about their language, and when you show that you have made efforts in learning German, they truly appreciate it. This would be a big plus in a field like marketing that will potentially involve meeting people and understanding the culture there.

- You mentioned she has done B Tech in CSE, and is now working in Marketing. While this might have worked here in India (how?), I doubt if her Technology degree will be helpful in securing a job in Marketing in Germany. Only having experience in Marketing might not be enough for her to land a job in Marketing in Germany.

- Lastly, there are considerable headwinds for the German economy in the near future. Will they get better, or deteriorate further only time will tell. But with AfD gaining strength in Germany, I doubt if they will be a destination of choice for legal (or illegal!) immigrants.

My son, still in his early teens, started learning German as a hobby during Covid years. Given that the education system in Germany is quite good and economical, I also encouraged him keeping long term prospects in mind. But over the last few years, my confidence has dented a bit.

Lets hope for the best, and good luck to her!

[NiInJa]

Originally Posted by BackInTheFold

Offering up a 360 (full circle) view:
This is a bit of a poignant thread for me since I’m a “chronic returnee”. I

Thanks for posting this. I have a question to you and all people who have repatriated back to India after a longish stint with kids.

Context:
I have moved to the U.K. for some time with a clear intention of returning to India as soon as my dad hits 70, that is three years from now and by that time my kid will be in 4th standard as per Indian education system, which I feel is a good time for reentry as studies start getting serious from 5th onwards (I am convinced beyond doubt that Indian primary school education is the best).

I have major concern around how my kid will cope up with sudden increase in load of studies and an environment of frequent tests/exams and judgements when he comes back to India. Right now, the education system here in Scotland way too different compared to India (which is not to say it is 'bad', it is just different). Kids are encouraged to learn at their own pace. Introverted kids are not asked to be pushed out of their 'zone' and there is a general 'relaxed' attitude towards studies, which does not mean a kid does not learn anything. There is no feeling of 'pressure' that is all.

Also, Since he is my only kid, I see the imminent separation from his cousins might make him sad. They are too close, they go to the toilets together . I am not sure of the duration (both his cousins are in the UK, that was my primary reason of shifting here)

How have your kids managed with this change? And how did you deal with it ? Thanks in advance for taking the time to post your replies

[GoBabyGo]

Originally Posted by shifu

But with AfD gaining strength in Germany, I doubt if they will be a destination of choice for legal (or illegal!) immigrants.

Thank you for your insights and real world perspective on Germany. AfD is not easy in Europe, looking at the strong economy of Germany. UK is also not doing that great. Language barrier is the biggest hurdle for the other countries of Europe. Germany is still a big country, if we look at the other countries of Europe.

Regarding marketing jobs for B.Tech (CSE) graduates, there are technical roles that require marketing skills, and I believe such opportunities exist in Germany as well—though I may be mistaken. Let me research this further and get back.

[dileepcm]

Originally Posted by GoBabyGo

Do you think it is a good idea for her to move to Germany?

Have you thought about Netherlands?
Having lived here for some 14 years now (working in Supply chain IT), I think you should definitely add it to your shortlist. Here are a few reasons why:

1. It’s much more English and expat-friendly. Seriously, everyone here speaks English (no exaggeration!).
2. The English-based job market is fairly active, especially in IT, its relatively easier to find a job.
3. You’ll have access to a lot of international companies.
4. You won’t have to deal with some of the typical expat issues, like racism, for example.

Now, I know you want to keep things balanced, so here are a few things to keep in mind:

1. Long-term settlement is becoming increasingly difficult.
2. Getting a job offer with sponsorship isn’t easy, but it’s definitely possible. I know people who have done it.
3. Once you manage to find a job, finding a house to rent or to buy is equally difficult.
4. Comparatively everything is more expensive.

LinkedIn is your best friend for a start. Good luck!

[Theyota]

Originally Posted by GoBabyGo

our 22 year old daughter, a B.Tech graduate in Computer Science (CSE), is currently working in the private sector in Noida in a relatively small company. She has been in a marketing role for the past 1.5 years.

She is interested in relocating abroad for work, and I have advised her to learn German over the next 6 to 9 months with the goal of applying for Germany's Opportunity Card.

Do you think it is a good idea for her to move to Germany? I believe Germany has a stable economy and is a safe & prosperous country.

I will start by saying a direct no! It is not a good idea given her background. As other members have tried to tell you in a soft round about way, a person with no fluent (C1) German language skills will find it difficult in the current German market to find a job in marketing, even if its tech marketing.

There are some non German speakers in marketing, they are mostly in the back end of marketing like strategy and product planning. Most are either internal company transfers from overseas branches or recruits from top b-schools/consulting firms for strategy roles.

The best chances for people who go to Germany on Job Seeker visas and are not fluent in the language are for the ones, with great coding skills, core AI/ML skills, core Engineering skills, core basic Sciences skills, etc. The smaller companies and start ups in tech industry are typically the main recruiters for job seeker visa holders.

While Germany is a strong economy, its economy has consistently under-performed since 2023 and hiring is frozen temporarily in many large companies. Although Germany suffers from skills and manpower shortage, German companies are conservative when it comes to hiring non fluent foreigners locally for white collar jobs.

It also does not help that Job Seeker visas and Student visas are seeing rampant misuse. There are shady private universities that are no more then visa enablers for thousands of not so qualified students wasting time. I see housewives leaving kids with grand parents in India and enrolling in an MBA in unknown college where many of the courses conducted are online by folks who are sitting in a 3rd country. Many of them are only using these colleges as a way to immigrate by hook or crook. Unfortunately there are also genuine but gullible students who took loans to enroll in these useless universities and were scammed by agents.

If someone wants to come for higher education in a good university which are mostly public universities and cost little to nothing, for someone who wants to do doctorate or work as a post doctoral researcher in basic sciences or engineering, Germany is still one of the best places.

[dearmaddy]

Hi All,

I am hoping to get some views on my options now to emigrate to a western nation.

I did B Tech Computer science and made a mistake of falling for the MBA trap instead of the IT job that I got at that time. Consequently I am now with 15 years of finance experience related to banking in India.

I am still single and don't find life here peaceful not do I have a close community. I want to escape the long work hours, traffic, pollution and utter disregard for civility on Indian roads not to mention corruption.

Would members here be kind enough to suggest what options I have to migrate to a western country to settle down. I have some savings but don't wish to bomb it all for a masters education abroad as the money is all I have to show for years of hard work.

Thanks for any ideas.
DM

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by dearmaddy

.

I am still single and don't find life here peaceful not do I have a close community. I want to escape the long work hours, traffic, pollution and utter disregard for civility on Indian roads not to mention corruption.

In the country of your birth you are given a community with unconditional love of parents and affection of close relatives and friends. If you don’t have this at 43, can you build this afresh in a new city/country? Clean air or traffic will not give you this.

As an immigrant, this void is often filled with new friends in western countries. This takes a lot of effort, time and energy to fill.

If one is penniless, jobless, young and hungry, I would say get out there and give it a shot. If you have a few million, then buy the citizenship of some country and give that a shot. If you’re middle class don’t let go of the job by not valuing what you have in your hands. Every country has its challenges, but we romanticize the west too much. Westerners are friendly, but true friendship is hard to form.

I am certainly not discouraging anyone from moving to a new country, but the key motivation to move should be in the right place. A migration can’t fix all issues. If you want a change, and a bucket full of big new issues, migrate and figure it out.

[BackInTheFold]

Originally Posted by NiInJa

Thanks for posting this. I have a question to you and all people who have repatriated back to India after a longish stint with kids.

Context:
I have moved to the U.K. for some time with a clear intention of returning to India as soon as my dad hits 70, that is three years from now and by that time my kid will be in 4th standard as per Indian education system, which I feel is a good time for reentry as studies start getting serious from 5th onwards (I am convinced beyond doubt that Indian primary school education is the best).

I have major concern around how my kid will cope up with sudden increase in load of studies and an environment of frequent tests/exams and judgements when he comes back to India. Right now, the education system here in Scotland way too different compared to India (which is not to say it is 'bad', it is just different). Kids are encouraged to learn at their own pace. Introverted kids are not asked to be pushed out of their 'zone' and there is a general 'relaxed' attitude towards studies, which does not mean a kid does not learn anything. There is no feeling of 'pressure' that is all.

Also, Since he is my only kid, I see the imminent separation from his cousins might make him sad. They are too close, they go to the toilets together . I am not sure of the duration (both his cousins are in the UK, that was my primary reason of shifting here)

How have your kids managed with this change? And how did you deal with it ? Thanks in advance for taking the time to post your replies

My son moved abroad to attend Grade 8 and will now return to attend the Grade 11 equivalent in the IB program. Given the difference in ages of our children, I’m not certain that my son’s experience would be transferable to yours.

However, I’ll leave you with a few countervailing points to consider while you make this tough decision:
- In general, such moves make children more adaptable and resilient
- There will always be a period of adjustment after any such move. Younger and older kids adjust quicker - early adolescents in middle school or Grade 9 often need more time but will eventually settle down
- I’m sure that there will be ICSE or international (IGCSE or IB MYP) schools that will fit your ethos. Grade 5 would be middle school and not primary. You’d need to do a bit if research to identify options that could be a good mutual fit
- For an only child, forming tight familial ties with cousins in the absence of siblings can be invaluable. If they cannot grow up together, could they spend a lot of quality time together reasonably frequently?

Good luck!

[dileepcm]

Originally Posted by dearmaddy

Hi All,

I am now with 15 years of finance experience related to banking in India.
I want to escape the long work hours, traffic, pollution and utter disregard for civility on Indian roads not to mention corruption.

Thanks for any ideas.
DM

I’m not sure if your finance domain experience from India will be a strong draw for jobs in the Western market. Out of all the Western European countries, I can’t think of any natural opportunities. With the exception of the UK, the local language is usually a must for jobs in these areas - Finance, Marketing, Sales, Law, Healthcare, etc.

But here’s another idea that might be worth considering. You’re single, you have a lot of experience in India, and I’m sure the Indian market will definitely value your skills. Why not try moving to a place a bit away from the main cities? You could find a place with more fresh air, less traffic, and better weather. If your work could be fully remote, I think you could find a nice little place up the hills somewhere and build your own little paradise where you could live for a fraction of what you would need in a mega city.

[ashivas89]

Originally Posted by Theyota

I will start by saying a direct no....

I endorse this post 100%.

I have a master's degree from Germany. I work for a German automotive company (11 years and counting). I have lived in Germany for 3 years as a student and I travel there on work assignments often and have stayed there over several months at a stretch (cumulative stay of over 2 years).

If one is not a native speaker of the language, it can be immensely challenging to find a job in roles that face customers (be it B2B or B2C).

Technical and IT roles may be in demand but that is in the best of times. The current job scene however is very bleak. My native German friends say so.

Also, another thing about settling in Europe is that people strangely want to return to India after a while.

Most of my friends who have settled down in mainland Europe want to come back to India at some point. A few of them are already returning.

The ones who have settled down in the US have no such plans and are very happy.

Go figure.

Someone suggested NL as an option. I would suggest that over DE.

Apologies to the OP (Bhpian GoBabyGo) for the pessimistic post.

[vishnurp99]

Originally Posted by ashivas89

Most of my friends who have settled down in mainland Europe want to come back to India at some point. A few of them are already returning.
The ones who have settled down in the US have no such plans and are very happy.

In Europe , you need to learn the local language to a fairly high degree of proficiency to have decent career growth & also integrate locally. This is not easy since most Indians start learning these languages only once they arrive in the country. So it's not surprising that some of these folks move back.
In West European countries like Germany, Netherlands, there is also quite a lot of competition from folks from East European countries. Since they are EU citizens, things are easier for them in many ways.
Add in huge taxes & the rise of right wing - Europe is not really that attractive for most folks.

[carhead]

Another angle is the latent racism, which is more prevalent than outright right-wing thought. In line with the intolerance rising across society (across the all strata & nations) immigrants are nowadays approached with suspicion. There is a tendency to treat newcomers as a potential threat. One needs to be smart, mature and prepared to handle these instances.

My objective is not to raise alarm. Or asking all to stay cooped in your home country.

We need to live by and commit to the choices we make.

Emigration is definitely for improvement in life. It has and will be a defining action of humans.

My two cents. Cheers.