[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by vishnurp99

In Europe, the law enforcement & immigration agencies have the right to ask for your residence permit anytime - I think. .

It Europe it varies country by country. In general, if you are not committing an offense or doing anything suspicious, in many European countries, police and/or immigration can not ask for identification, let alone a residence permit.

In Germany you can be excused for not caring your documents and if you have them at home, the police can take you home and inspect your documents.

In Sweden, to my knowledge, there is no explicit law on the obligation of identification! So you can simply refuse.

Jeroen

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Surprisingly a similar law exists in India also but I don't think its strictly enforced.

Yes, it is! Foreigners have to register at FRO/FRRO for stays of over 180 days. (Or... I think you can do it online now). IIIRC, people on eg employment visas have to register within something like 14 days.

Exempt from this are tourists, who may not stay longer than 180 days (or less, according to visa) and holders of OCI. When it still existed, even PIO-card holders had to register.

Originally Posted by ninjatalli

I would say it’ll probably come down to a mix of facial looks, body language, skin color, their (local) accents and the utter confidence on how they respond to the officials.

If you look, act, and talk local-Indian, who's going to even think otherwise.

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Samurai

https://indianexpress.com/article/wo...ation-9940548/

This reminds me of cold-war era fictions I used to read in the 80s. Police behind the iron-curtain nations would always ask for papers from the people walking in the streets.

I have never carried my passport while living in USA unless I was heading to the airport on an international trip. But those were times 20+ years ago.

How does a US citizen prove himself to be a citizen if he/she isn't carrying any ID?

1. Almost everyone normally carries an ID. Because outside of downtown metro areas the vast majority moving from point A to point B would be driving anyway and need their operator's license with them.

2. Concrete proofs aside, if cops are asking questions (as is typical) about where a person lives, where they're going/ coming from, etc, on a local level they may be able to ascertain enough by the answers, the local/regional/other accent, etc.

If they had some reason to dig deeper, they of course can do that by various means.

Every police cruiser has a laptop in there, and I think it's easy enough for them to access info/ records to check out your answers when needed.

-Eric.

[Janus]

Originally Posted by Samurai

This reminds me of cold-war era fictions I used to read in the 80s. Police behind the iron-curtain nations would always ask for papers from the people walking in the streets.

I have never carried my passport while living in USA unless I was heading to the airport on an international trip. But those were times 20+ years ago.

How does a US citizen prove himself to be a citizen if he/she isn't carrying any ID?

India has a similar provision to register with FRRO if a non-citizen is staying for more than 180 days, and also the new Immigration bill has given even more powers to the Government. Read through the below link also watch the debate in parliament about passage of this and the concerns raised by various MP's.

https://prsindia.org/billtrack/the-i...ners-bill-2025

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Surprisingly a similar law exists in India also but I don't think its strictly enforced. I remember my uncles who had become US citizens many decades ago registering themselves at the local police station in Lucknow.

Originally Posted by Janus

India has a similar provision to register with FRRO if a non-citizen is staying for more than 180 days, and also the new Immigration bill has given even more powers to the Government.

I am well-versed with this since I raised an US born son in India since 2+ decades. Registering with FFRO is different than carrying passport all the time.

My son didn't have to produce his papers for police or carry his passport or PIO card, or even the OCI once he got that. Therefore, US requiring all foreigners to carry passport/visa all the time sounds way more draconian.

Now, even US citizens are being mistakenly tagged...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdyN2mwOgW8

And their phones are being searched...

https://youtu.be/mO8_Q5lTAVY

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by Samurai

My son didn't have to produce his papers for police or carry his passport or PIO card, or even the OCI once he got that.

Indeed: we (I'm a British citizen with OCI) do not have to carry anything. I've been through late-night police checks, for instance and nationality has never been an issue.

The only reason, apart from foreign travel (I carry it for domestic travel too: hotels are supposed to log/report foreign guests) to carry OCI is for claiming some of its benefits, like entry to some places/sites which charge a huge foreigner markup, at local prices. Those who don't look foreign, of course, just walk in anyway.

Those, eg tourists and those required to register but don't, are not very likely to be chased down, unless they draw attention to themselves. But they are likely to find themselves in serious trouble if and when they try to leave India.

Now, even US citizens are being mistakenly tagged...

I've never been to America. I'd certainly like to, but it hasn't happened. When in UK, foreign trips prioritised India (or staying in UK to spend time with family and friends) and now they prioritise very visits to my mother country. Do I still want to visit USA? Yes, but I wouldn't.

[Samurai]

Even naturalized citizens are not spared... intentionally.

https://youtu.be/YWuTdSGJHaU

[WhyMe]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Even naturalized citizens are not spared...

But his wife and friend Elon are immigrants too. Well that logic is kinda endless because every American is descendant of an immigrant, like his own grandfather
But what is the end goal of this extra scrutiny ? So many of our relatives are now settled in USA and elsewhere in the world, all in IT field.

Unrelated but I wonder is this comparable to the scrutiny after 9/11 attacks. But that time the folks of a particular religion were targeted in the name of national security. Now it only seems like Fascism behind the scenes.

[SideView]

How many of you would take a jump if spouse got a H-1B but you don't have any offers in hand (and were doing good/well paid in India and have some savings to fall back on for an year or so).

Would you risk it?

[Simha.k]

Originally Posted by SideView

How many of you would take a jump if spouse got a H-1B but you don't have any offers in hand (and were doing good/well paid in India and have some savings to fall back on for an year or so).

Would you risk it?

We pulled off a similar stunt many years ago. Although not US, but a European country. I will never recommend you do it if you are doing well for yourself in India. I would never recommend you join your wife in the US until you have a work visa for yourself. Or, if you are willing to sacrifice your career, ego and be willing to a house husband and dont mind being subject to occasional taunts and ridicules by wife/friends/family, pls go ahead. Sorry for sounding harsh, but it is the bitter truth. I am assuming you don't have kids. Have you thought about how you are going to spend time home alone when your wife is away at work? Boredom can kill you, trust me. Ever more in colder regions of Northern hemisphere. Joblessness, loneliness, boredom, cold climate all combined together is a deadly cocktail. It is downright depressing in the cold months.

When money dries up, you'll start seeing the real face of everyone around you when you may have to depend on them even for minute things. God forbid if you don't find an employer willing to sponsor your visa, and imagine you did, but unluckily you don't get picked in the lottery, what then? Are you both willing to return to India if you don't find a job within a year? You quit your current job, wind up many operations in India and move abroad and come back in a year because you can't find a job? A complete waste of time, money, resource and energy.

Tread with caution

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by Samurai

Even naturalized citizens are not spared... intentionally.

I cross the border (Vancouver, Canada) almost twice a month or at least once a month to eat dinner and come back. I'm a foodie so I cannot resist.

I'm sometimes in Canada just for a few hours (Leave home at 4pm and back home by 11pm) for a nice fancy meal.

Not once. Repeat, Not once did I face any issue with Immigration on either side as we cross the border in less than a minute.

The latest visit being a couple of weeks ago.

Few more recent example :

My wife came back last week after 3-months in India. She cleared immigration in 30 seconds (using MPC).

One of my friend/neighbour came back home last week from vacation (London/Warsaw/Delhi) then back home.

Another friend (and a BHPian) who is on a H1B visa came back last week from Delhi and landed in Vancouver and rented a car to drive back home in Seattle.

Another friend. She flew to Detroit and crossed over to Windsor, Canada and stayed for a week and came back into US easily.

Everyone entered the country with ease.

Don't believe everything you see in the news. Folks (including GC/Citizens) who are getting in trouble are the ones with some history or background.

Originally Posted by SideView

How many of you would take a jump if spouse got a H-1B but you don't have any offers in hand (and were doing good/well paid in India and have some savings to fall back on for an year or so).

Would you risk it?

Nope. Folks are getting laid off here right left and center. Jobs are still there but, only for the niche skilled and unique roles.

Citizens and GC's themselves are not getting jobs so sponsoring H1B visa is out of question. I know 2-friends who are citizen/green card holders who are sitting at home from as long as 2-years (yup, that's right. 2 years no job) and eating into their savings. It's a good thing they are financially well off.

There is too much supply in market than demand. This will not change for next 2-years.

Originally Posted by Simha.k

Tread with caution

Good advice. Moving to US/EU is worth only if you have a "confirmed" job in-hand.

Trying your luck after landing days are gone.

[V.Narayan]

Originally Posted by mobike008

I cross the border (Vancouver, Canada) almost twice a month or at least once a month ...

Not once. Repeat, Not once did I face any issue with Immigration on either side as we cross the border in less than a minute.

Don't believe everything you see in the news. Folks (including GC/Citizens) who are getting in trouble are the ones with some history or background.

Thank you for sharing your more positive experiences. I'm reasonably sure the ones getting into trouble at Passport Control have some issue but...but... across the major countries of the world if your papers are not in order at passport control you are sent back within 24 hours. The U.S. under the current administration is locking visitors up for weeks without access to a lawyer, their family or the phones. And this has happened often enough - here even half a dozen instances is often enough.

[aby]

Originally Posted by SideView

How many of you would take a jump if spouse got a H-1B but you don't have any offers in hand (and were doing good/well paid in India and have some savings to fall back on for an year or so).

Would you risk it?

It is a personal choice.

As someone who moved to US a decade ago, I can say it sure is not easy. You should be willing to take a career risk, job downgrade and prepare for the possibility of not finding a job for extended period of time. It is a function of your risk appetite and your stage in life.

First of all, you need to find a potential employer willing to sponsor you for a visa. In today's economy and political conditions that's challenging to say the least. Even if you find such an employer, getting selected in H1B lottery is a matter of luck - a 20% to 33% chance.

Then there is the matter of permanent residency (Green Card). You need to understand that barring congressional action the path to employment based Green Card is closed for Indian citizens. So if you have a kid who is not US citizen, then bringing them to US means they will probably have to self-deport once they turn 21.

Finally, you need to have a plan B in case of things not working out for an extended period of time. If you decide to come back to India, will you be able to revive you career from the point you left.

If you are confident of overcoming the obstacles - go for it.

[mobike008]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

Thank you for sharing your more positive experiences. I'm reasonably sure the ones getting into trouble at Passport Control have some issue but...but... across the major countries of the world if your papers are not in order at passport control you are sent back within 24 hours.

Well, I can't comment about other countries but, I can state about U.S.

I know tons of people who are my colleagues, friends who travel quite a bit outside of the US. I myself travel out of US at least twice in a year (not counting my dinner trips to Canada ) and lot of domestic travel too. All my information is first-hand.

None of the Indians that I know have experienced any issues at Immigration when travelling out of the country.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The U.S. under the current administration is locking visitors up for weeks without access to a lawyer, their family or the phones. And this has happened often enough - here even half a dozen instances is often enough.

Do you know these people or it's just hearsay?

There are Indian visitors who might be questioned and worse case scenario deported but, it's special cases like

1. A green card holder who stayed out of the US for more than 6-months.

2. Indian vistors (parents) who visit U.S with a one-way ticket (this is a big no) and they are not being allowed entry to U.S

Other than that, I don't think US is creating trouble for folks who have the right intentions, history or documents.

My mom is arriving to U.S in a couple of weeks, will keep you posted about her experience.

I repeat, DO NOT believe everything you hear in news as it's crap, especially for majority of Indians who have a clean record and such people have nothing to worry about travelling in and out of the country.

[v1p3r]

https://www.livemint.com/news/trends...767769935.html

As we (not so) slowly descend into something worse than a banana republic, this is a great example of how we live in India. No matter what taxes you pay, what you studied, or how hard you work, some drunk guys can nearly murder you and get out on bail the next day.

Important to note that this guy is not uneducated, underprivileged, or otherwise disadvantaged as many of our fellow citizens tend to be. For all you know, he may even belong to an 'influential' family, or 'know' people. But it's difficult to put any of this to use when someone is using the full force of a baseball bat on your cranium.

This is the bubble that people like us live in, and we're seeing it burst in the headlines.

Also, helmets save lives.