[NiInJa]

Originally Posted by ArjunPadmakumar

As someone who is 28 and has seen my entire peer group move to EU, CA, USA, Japan, GCC, Australasia and South East Asia I feel absolutely devastated on my choice to stay back in India. Unless you are
1.rich
2.absolutely stellar in Academics
3.In the Government
4.flourishing field like IT

you are totally done in here

Just a word of caution, not just India, but to flourish anywhere in the world, you will have to be better than others at a few things. I've seen my peers move to other countries, the average Joes are, at best, promising a better life for their kids, while the smart ones are making it big abroad. Some who were average Joes did lot of hard-work to become exceptional in their field. So while your decision to move out is good, do know that it is not the only thing needed for succeeding outside India. Struggle is always there, in some form or the other.

For all the experiences you mentioned, I can counter it with examples in my friend group who have made it really big starting from Zero in India (and hence put confidence in India's success story), but that is not the point.

The best part of moving out of India after spending a good amount of adult time there is that it makes you ready to deal with any challenges (except knife attacks and mugging when walking on empty streets ). When you go abroad and start living in peaceful environments, you will laugh at the kind of first-world problems people have, how small deviations in their usual routines will stress them out and lose their minds. The tolerance/perseverance levels of people of India is much much higher, and it will work in your favor. If you have thrived in the chaos of India, the peace and calm of a developed country will at times unsettle you, which is a good problem to have.

Best of luck for your future. It only gets better from here.

P.S. Just a note for people looking to migrate: Also consider living for some time in developing South-East Asian countries like Vietnam and Indonesia. The IT sector (especially app development) is booming there just the way it was booming in India 10 year's ago when the app market had just started consolidating to become super-apps of today. Most companies have their HQs in Singapore and if you have good coding/management skills, you will get paid in top Singapore dollar in Vietnam/Indonesia, this along with a similar income disparity of India, you can live a lavish life there, more lavish than living in UK or Europe. (Based on a true story of a close friend of mine who is living the best life in Indonesia)

[V.Narayan]

If the current U.S. Administration continues down its path on immigration, visas, green cards etc I wonder how long will it be before migrating to USA becomes unattractive in the main. It will always remain attractive to some but I ask on the whole. I wonder when these policies will help us with a reverse brain drain.

[Samurai]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

I wonder when these policies will help us with a reverse brain drain.

I don't believe there is a brain drain in the first place. We shouldn't really use that term to be frank.

If people come back to India, it will increase the supply of engineers. It will also depress the wages due to increase in supply. At one time, having international exposure used to matter. Now it matters lot less thanks to web-sessions. None of my team have lived abroad. But they deal with international clients on a daily basis without any trouble.

If there is a brain drain in India, it is between the courses. Just sticking to engineering, the best students are going to computer science and AI, while traditional fields like civil, electrical and mechanical engineering branches are starved of the best talents.

[amitoj]

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

If the current U.S. Administration continues down its path on immigration, visas, green cards etc I wonder how long will it be before migrating to USA becomes unattractive in the main.

Other countries are already taking advantage of this situation.

Countries boost recruitment of American scientists amid cuts to scientific funding

I am hearing of PhD students wrapping up their thesis in 3 months instead of the usual year and more and professors are also stressed due to funding cuts and reluctantly pushing their students to somehow finish the work.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by amitoj

Other countries are already taking advantage of this situation.

I am hearing of PhD students wrapping up their thesis in 3 months instead of the usual year and more and professors are also stressed due to funding cuts and reluctantly pushing their students to somehow finish the work.

True that. Its happening with experienced folks as well. And countries are only happy to take back people skilled in niche/emerging technologies.

In my company, already one ML expert is moving back to China with her husband,who also works in areas of ML.

[dragracer567]

According to this Times of India article, Indian students in the US on F-1 visas have had their visa cancelled and asked to leave the country (i.e self-deport) for crimes such as shoplifting, driving under the influence and petty traffic offenses. To be fair, I don't agree with the article that states the former two as petty crimes. Here in the Gulf, the former two are serious offences, how exactly do you 'forget' to scan items worth $144 at Walmart? But deporting for traffic offences, even driving 10 mph above the speed limit of 70 mph, is quite abhorrent unless the speeds are seriously over the speed limit. Also, reopening old cases that has already been closed and punishments served is unconstitutional in any country with a rule of law.

Recently, multiple students have had their visas (even green cards) cancelled over student activism. Offcourse, this is something India has done in the past as well and which I personally (quite ironically) feel is an attempt to stifle free speech though never been a fan of excessive campus activism.

[WhyMe]

Many BHPians live in USA, many have become proud citizens or holding green card. I'm eager to know how they forsee the undergoing transformation in American society vis-a-vis transformation in Indian society.
Many commentators say American 'empire' is on its last phase of decline, but the counter opinion is that it's just undergoing a course correction and cultural blips are fleeting on history's grand arc.
Similary many say India is on its historical rise with few counter opinions.

Keeping aside the acute Trump phenomenon and keeping aside other sought after destinations (Canada, UK, Germany, Australia, etc. etc.), I personally think American dream will always be a hot cake among Indians, both for education and work.
Do you agree ?

[narayans80]

Originally Posted by dragracer567

Indian students in the US on F-1 visas have had their visa cancelled and asked to leave the country

I don't get it. Why would you want to chase out those who bring money into the country? Its not like you stop admitting international students, Americans are going to have a new found interest in their education.

[m8002?]

Originally Posted by narayans80

I don't get it. Why would you want to chase out those who bring money into the country? Its not like you stop admitting international students, Americans are going to have a new found interest in their education.

I guess they are only deporting those students who are protesting the current govt's policies on the street or social media. Others are good to stay. Also, its not country specific.

But I also read that the option to work after studies is being scrutinised. That could be a bit hit for many,

[Samurai]

https://indianexpress.com/article/wo...ation-9940548/

Under the new rule, all non-citizens residing in the US for over 30 days—including visa holders, green card recipients, and work permit holders—must register and carry documentation proving their legal status at all times. Non-compliance could result in fines of up to $5,000 or jail terms of up to 30 days.

This reminds me of cold-war era fictions I used to read in the 80s. Police behind the iron-curtain nations would always ask for papers from the people walking in the streets.

I have never carried my passport while living in USA unless I was heading to the airport on an international trip. But those were times 20+ years ago.

How does a US citizen prove himself to be a citizen if he/she isn't carrying any ID?

[Foxbat]

Originally Posted by Samurai

https://indianexpress.com/article/wo...ation-9940548/

This reminds me of cold-war era fictions I used to read in the 80s. Police behind the iron-curtain nations would always ask for papers from the people walking in the streets.

I have never carried my passport while living in USA unless I was heading to the airport on an international trip. But those were times 20+ years ago.

How does a US citizen prove himself to be a citizen if he/she isn't carrying any ID?

Surprisingly a similar law exists in India also but I don't think its strictly enforced. I remember my uncles who had become US citizens many decades ago registering themselves at the local police station in Lucknow.

The extant Acts dealing with entry, stay and exit of foreign nationals in the country are: (i) The
Passport (Entry into India) Act, 1920; (ii) The Foreigners Act, 1946; and (iii) The Registration of
Foreigners Act, 1939.

All foreigners (including foreigners of Indian origin) visiting India on long term (more
than 180 days) Student Visa, Medical Visa, Research Visa, Employment Visa,
Missionary Visa and Project Visa are required to get themselves registered with the
Foreigners Regional Registration Officer (FRRO)/ Foreigners Registration Officer (FRO)
concerned having jurisdiction over the place where the foreigner intends to stay, within
14 days of arrival.

https://www.mha.gov.in/PDF_Other/Ann...I_01022018.pdf

[ninjatalli]

Originally Posted by Samurai

How does a US citizen prove himself to be a citizen if he/she isn't carrying any ID?

I would say it’ll probably come down to a mix of facial looks, body language, skin color, their (local) accents and the utter confidence on how they respond to the officials.

One could possibly take a reference from how TSA supposedly pick out ‘random’ individuals for checks at airports

[GutsyGibbon]

Originally Posted by Samurai

How does a US citizen prove himself to be a citizen if he/she isn't carrying any ID?

DMV database has immigration data that can be cross checked for immigration enforcement. When I ride/drive close to the border, I am always checked at immigration check post. Interaction is always brief. “Good morning sir, are you a US citizen “?
I say yes, and they always say “have a good day”. They never ask me for an ID. I guess they can read into things based on confidence, body language, circumstantial data. Just my guess

[dragracer567]

Originally Posted by Samurai

This reminds me of cold-war era fictions I used to read in the 80s. Police behind the iron-curtain nations would always ask for papers from the people walking in the streets.

I have never carried my passport while living in USA unless I was heading to the airport on an international trip. But those were times 20+ years ago.

Here in the Gulf, I just still remember growing up in Kuwait, we were required to have our ID (called the civil ID) on us at all times, else you get picked up and taken to the police station. Infact, even if you go downstairs inside your own apartment building and don't have your ID on you, the cops will just pick you up, no explanation or even the opportunity to show the ID upstairs. I still remember my mother having panic attacks when she left for work and realizes that she forgot her ID as it sometimes ended up with my dad. Thinking back, it was a dystopian nightmare. Other Gulf countries are thankfully much more lenient and these days, you can show your ID on your mobile phone for example but checks are rare except in shady areas. In the UAE, there wasn't even a proper ID till the late 2000s, most people just carried their visa copies (if ever), it was so liberating after moving there from Kuwait. But even in Dubai, the cops do break into rooms in the middle of the night and ask for ID in shady areas primarily those with African and Bangladeshi workers.

Originally Posted by Foxbat

Surprisingly a similar law exists in India also but I don't think its strictly enforced. I remember my uncles who had become US citizens many decades ago registering themselves at the local police station in Lucknow.

All foreigners (including foreigners of Indian origin) visiting India on long term (more
than 180 days) Student Visa, Medical Visa, Research Visa, Employment Visa,
Missionary Visa and Project Visa are required to get themselves registered with the
Foreigners Regional Registration Officer (FRRO)/ Foreigners Registration Officer (FRO)
concerned having jurisdiction over the place where the foreigner intends to stay, within
14 days of arrival.

Ah yes, I remember my dad telling me about how he used to take an Indonesian colleague who came for an internship to the police station on his bike for registration.

The 180 day registration is pretty standard everywhere these day, even in the schengen area, if you intend to stay for more than 180 days, it's considered a long-term visit and you have to get registered at the local townhall, get ID etc. Offcourse, getting to register is another story, in Belgium where I lived, appointments were quick but in Italy, the appointments took upto a year by the time of which, most people left!

[vishnurp99]

In Europe, the law enforcement & immigration agencies have the right to ask for your residence permit anytime - I think. Essentially you need to have a registered address.

I have been asked to show mine two times once in Sweden & in Germany in the last two years. I don't think racism had anything to do with it because one of the officers who stopped me was of Indian-origin.

While in the US on an H1 many years back, I used to always carry my passport when travelling out of town on road trips etc because I was under the impression that the mentioned law already existed. This was especially true after the subprime-mortgage crisis in the USA because there was some anti-immigrant sentiment at that time.