[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by GrammarNazi

For the N'th time, if they just move from lifetime road tax system to congestion charge system all over the country's metro cities, it'll solve the problem. (Refund the road tax as transferable credit to current car owners).
.

Why, it has not been proven very effective in London? Since, only Milan and Stockholm have followed. Its net effect is difficult to measure, admittedly.

On the first day the effect is very noticeable but it wears of over time. I don’t see or experience any noticeable effect in Stockholm traffic. In London travel times across London has still increased, although emission levels, compared to base line have come down. But that is probably also largely due to newer cars with cleaner cars on the London roads during the last decade.

So it is not the whole grail for this whole car problem by any stretch of the imagination I would think.

Jeroen

[asingh1977]

Originally Posted by promit

My place of work is in Cyber City. I left half an hour earlier in the morning yesterday (at 8). I was thinking I may ditch my car at a metro station and Rapid Metro it depending on what the scene looks like.
Yesterday was no different from a regular day in terms of traffic etc. DLF parking was very much operational. Ultimately saw so many cars on the road, I just drove down to work. I believe the only difference was they were not allowing people to halt or park by the road or in the smaller parking lots around Cyber City.
Good initiative, wish people would participate. It was far from car free! Still have some time to go before we can manage without cars here in Gurgaon.

Originally Posted by Jeroen

I work in Cybercity as well and am lucky enough to have a parking place under our office. I did not notice any fewer cars on the road. Remarkably, this morning in the Times of India a very positive story on this car free day on the front page. But in the daily supplement Delhi Times it is called a failure. Go figure.
Jeroen

I also work in Cyber City. Have been here since 2008. The traffic situation is quite sad and sordid. No matter how many experiments they try and change the circular roundabouts, exiting and entering during the prime hours is a harrowing experience. When it was initiated and later on activated, they never planned the traffic density and calculated how so many cars will exit. I remember when the "3 - Pillars" were also an exit point. It used to be so bad. Cyber City is the worst place someone has to be compelled to go to daily, it is such a grind.

Regarding "car-free" day. I absolutely saw no difference on the roads. Just that they were not allowing parking near HUDA and cops were swinging their batons more than they should.

[mvadg]

Originally Posted by phamilyman

...
The one malaise Gurgaon has really imported is our car addiction coupled with absent quality last-mile connectivity (like America). Call it a western claptrap but we need more buses on all possible routes just like it happens in European cities, e.g Germany. I'm afraid Gurgaon peak hour traffic has gone beyond the level where just discipline will work - discipline now is only a stopgap arrangement. The only long term solution is much more high quality public transport.



As an aside, Here's a blog on the subject by a friend with some dated information, but whose an excellent thinker nevertheless:
http://noenthuda.com/blog/2015/09/23...ocial-capital/

...
You might wonder why there might be traffic jams on days that are supposedly “Car Free”. I don’t know the precise effect this can be classified under, but it’s somewhere in a linear combination of Prisoner’s Dilemma and Tragedy of the Commons and correlation, all led by a lack of social capital.

...


The problem stems with a lack of social capital in Indian cities (based on anecdotal experience (my own data point from 2008-09), I would posit it is lower in Gurgaon than in other Indian cities)...

While designing policies, it’s important to be realistic and keep in mind ease of implementation. So if the reality is low social capital, any policy that requires voluntary giving up by people is only going to have a marginal impact.

Coming back to traffic, I’m increasingly convinced (I’ve held this conviction since 2006, and it has only grown stronger over time) that the only way to make people switch to public transport is to lead with supply – flood the streets with buses, which among other things actually increase the cost of private transport. Once there is sufficient density of buses, these buses can be given their own lanes which further pushes up the cost of driving. Then we can look at further measures such as prohibitive parking costs and congestion pricing.

We can have these notional “no car days” and “bus days” and “no honking days” but it is unlikely that any of them will have anything more than a token effect.

Originally Posted by GrammarNazi

I'm surprised if people are surprised of the negative reactions. Its attempts to seriously infringe citizens rights by coercion through some sort of social pressure.

...
Edit : IMHO By masking it as a "Public Initiative", they're just turning us against each other & shifting the focus away from the authorities' apathy from trying to understand the seriousness of the issue.

P.S. : Just my 2 cents.

I agree with GrammarNazi and Phamilyman above; but I'm not for the congestion charge right now for reasons given by Phamilyman.

If you've ever tried using the 'public transport' system in Bangalore on even the so called 'Bus Days', you'd realize the futility of asking the babus and politicians to do a good job. [No need to comment on the attitude of the employees of BMTC, I guess]

You are asking the system to punish the public to make them behave in a certain way, I am no behavioral economist, but, I suggest we also look at punishing the other side: The Authorities, who get away with some half-brained ideas while causing a lot of pain to the general public.

The other issue with the 'government' is: the people calling the shots are not qualified in any way to make decisions such as changing the behavior of a group. AND, they will not acknowledge their limitations nor will they hire experts to work out an optimal solution.

Another issue that you've pointed out is that they are pushing this so called 'public initiative' for reasons best known to them. In the guise of freeing us from pollution and congestion, they are simply harassing us - may be that IS their real goal! The reactions to the HSR-Layout, (Bangalore) Car Free Day leads me to strongly suspect that was their intention all along.

I am all for getting rid of cars from the congested cities, but they need to come up with realistic solutions.

[prashant_dv]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Just a small correction: bicycles do not have the right of way at any crossing or turning. There are traffic rules that govern that and bicycles need to adhere to that.

Jeroen

Hello Jeroen,

Yes, I agree and thank you for correcting me. I actually meant to mention about the places where people exit and enter residential areas to the main roads where we do wait for cyclists to pass through. Where-as in major crossings and others, they should follow the rules and wait for the green signal to cross.

Cheers,
Prashant D

[rohitnp]

My 5 cents. I live in Kerala and low-floor a/c buses were introduced here in the past few of years which run inside certain cities and also between cities and towns, as opposed to just being exclusively urban transport. I have rarely seen any of them run nearly empty. They are almost always full despite being almost twice as expensive as non-ac buses. Agreed that here, we are nowhere as crowded as Gurgaon. But from my experience in Bengaluru, which uses a lot of these buses(mostly always crowded) and from here, I do think that yes, people would use an a/c bus service instead of their cars, provided they were reasonably charged and on the right kind of routes at convenient timings. Since starting bus services is way cheaper than building or extending a metro, I think it would be a worthwhile investment to especially target the car crowd. They shouldn't being targeting the normal commuters who already either travel by buses or by two-wheelers, only under the logic that they would find it too expensive compared to their current options.

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by rohitnp

My 5 cents. I live in Kerala and low-floor a/c buses were introduced here in the past few of years which run inside certain cities and also between cities and towns, as opposed to just being exclusively urban transport. I have rarely seen any of them run nearly empty. They are almost always full despite being almost twice as expensive as non-ac buses. Agreed that here, we are nowhere as crowded as Gurgaon. But from my experience in Bengaluru, which uses a lot of these buses(mostly always crowded) and from here, I do think that yes, people would use an a/c bus service instead of their cars, provided they were reasonably charged and on the right kind of routes at convenient timings.

Buddy there are enough low floor AC buses in NCR already. And they are all half the times swaying to one side thanks to over crowding. Same is for the metro. Jam packed at all times. There problem is difference in population which is only increasing with everyday influx and migration of more people into Delhi. Combine this with absolute disregard for traffic rules and you are staring at all day long jams.

[rohitnp]

Originally Posted by drmohitg

Buddy there are enough low floor AC buses in NCR already. And they are all half the times swaying to one side thanks to over crowding. Same is for the metro. Jam packed at all times. There problem is difference in population which is only increasing with everyday influx and migration of more people into Delhi. Combine this with absolute disregard for traffic rules and you are staring at all day long jams.

I can imagine! Which is what makes me think that maybe there is another way to target the car crowd. Maybe different routes compared to normal buses, different stops, charges higher than main route buses but lower than fuel expenses or on par. Just wondering!

[drmohitg]

Originally Posted by rohitnp

I can imagine! Which is what makes me think that maybe there is another way to target the car crowd. Maybe different routes compared to normal buses, different stops, charges higher than main route buses but lower than fuel expenses or on par. Just wondering!

I doubt any of it will work. One the weather is not helpful at all. Second there is always the question of image and society perception which is a major factor up north. Lastly the distances in Delhi are huge compared to other metros. Also the last mile connectivity and the perceived inconvenience and safety hazards make it almost a no go.

[AceKnocks]

Yay! for the efforts put in by all the parties involved.

We must have these car-free days compulsory in the metros especially atleast once in a month. People are surely realizing how important it is to save our city from pollution, de-congest the city and also use public transport to its true worth.

On another note, this is my first post in the forum. It feels great to be among so many motor enthusiasts. I have never seen people talking about intricate details about a car/bike so much so that it bowls me over!

Cheers everyone.

[interest]

I have been following the comments on a daily basis and have seen all the major suggestions like- forcing people to use public transport, banning ownership of more than one car, congestion charge, promoting use of cycles, walking etc. I think all these first world ideas are fine as ideas but somewhere they lack a practical understanding of the Indian context. Lets face it- given the extreme summer and winter, cycling/ walking to office is NOT an option. If one has to cycle to office in the extreme heat and humidity, I dont think he/she would look presentable enough to attend a meeting covered with sweat and grime (leave alone the risk of falling prey to sun stroke). If we really want to make our roads congestion free, one has to realise that an alternate mode of transport needs to be available which is comfortable and reliable. I suggest the following approach-

Increase the fares of Delhi metro (not airport express) by 30%-50% and at the same time hike the parking rates of parking lots near high traffic areas (office complexes etc.)- Currently, the regular delhi metro suffers from excessive overcrowding which makes commuting by it a harrowing experience. Anyone who shells out Rs. 6000 to 8000 on petrol each month will not want to travel by publlic transport if it is uncomfortable. If the metro fares are increased, it will become more appealing to the car owners in terms of comfort (many people who cant afford higher fares would move to buses) as well as pricing (assuming even after the fare increase, they will end up spending Rs 3000-4000 on the metro fare instead of the Rs. 8000 on the petrol).

Increase the number of buses (AC as well as non- AC)- Increasing the metro fares appears anti- poor on the face but it is not. The higher revenue collection from the increased metro fares as well as higher parking charges should be used to provide more buses (AC as well as non AC). By moving a lot of car owners to the metro, the traffic density on the roads would have come down quite a bit. This would allow buses to move more swiftly on the roads thereby making them quite attractive. So while the poor people are forced to move to buses from metro, their concerns have been validly addressed by proving them a quicker, cheaper and reasonably comfortable mode of transport (in AC and non AC buses).


Keep strict watch on autorickshaws and taxis- Autorickshaws and taxis whould be under constant vigil to ensure that they comply with the laws (dont say no to commuters, dont overcharge, are well maintained and comply with road traffic rules). This would help in providing a reliable last mile connectivity to people using metro and buses thereby allowing them to shun cars without much discomfort.


Road and traffic planning- Roads should be planned in such a manner that their width remains constant so that random bottlenecks are not created. Religious processions, strikes, demonstrations etc. should not be allowed during peak hours.


Enforecement of traffic rules- This is a must, More often the reason behind a traffic jam is a moron driving on the wrong side or taking a turn from a place where no turn is allowed. I have constantly reported cases of cab drivers driving on the wrong side in cyber city but the Gurgaon traffic police has still not paid any heed to my complaint.


I am sure if these suggestions are followed, a lot of traffic problems will be sorted out quickly. We will not need to resort to propoganda like car free days etc. Lets not forget that in following the carrot and stick approach for reducing the number of private cars, the carrot (better alternative transport) has to come before the stick (ban on private cars).

[alpha1]

Well the problem of Gurgaon is kind of same what is experienced in Bangalore.
My comments on the Bangalore thread hold here too:

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post3798140
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/street...ml#post3798757

It looks like people are the same everywhere across the globe
Always trying to blame someone else, but not willing to accept own faults (and the consequences of the decisions)

[Peterf]

I think the people forgot that every tuesday is now a car free day.

Lot of traffic jam today, even more than the normal car days.

[hybridpetrol]

Originally Posted by Peterf

I think the people forgot that every tuesday is now a car free day.

Lot of traffic jam today, even more than the normal car days.

Anything that is issued in public interest as a request will be totally ignored. Only when enforced as law, with traffic police constantly catching people and writing out fines, the same will be followed.
The Government has been running campaigns on public interest for "Wear helmets for safety" for several years, with very less people subscribing to that idea. A lot of opposition such as sweat, hair loss came up.

Now, in Tamil nadu, situation is totally opposite, with majority wears helmet, because the Government made wearing helmet mandatory. If not followed, traffic police would catch them and confiscate the license! So unless there is some enforcement, the money spent on campaigns just goes in drain, no one will bother about it.