[lina]

In India, every single good highway is tolled. Is this the case in all countries? I have driven around in the USA a bit and never paid any tolls. Same with few places in Europe.

[superbad]

This is akin to laying a new tar road, only to start digging it soon after in order to lay a new concrete road.

[gopa99]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Obviously, everybody knows the Russians are the world leaders in toll booth free lanes and they can teach anybody a thing or two on how to securely empty a private persons bank account using GPS and a little black box mounted in your vehicle.

Jeroen

Good to see your opinion. So what would be the privacy risks in this case? I am assuming we all have google spying on us all the time through the little box in our pockets, so how is this going to be any different?

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by lina

In India, every single good highway is tolled. Is ihis the case in all countries? I have driven around in the USA a bit and never paid any tolls. same with few places in Europe

There are certainly toll lanes in the USA. E.g. Dallas has lots of them. It is usually called fast tag lane.

But the rest of world including Europe is full of toll roads. All main motorways in France are toll roads, in some countries you need to display a special sticker to be allowed to drive there, and you pay for the sticker too. E.g. Austria, Switzerland.
Japan is full of toll motorways.

UK has several toll bridges and tunnels. Even here in tiny the Netherlands we still have a toll tunnel. UK has a congestion charge to get into London, which is just a toll

Countries such as the Netherlands have road tax. It is based on what kind of car you drive, type of fuel, emissions and weight. I can’t drive on any public road without having paid my road tax for each car. And everybody does, because you will be caught very quickly and automatically. On top of that I need to pay the toll going into the tunnel. It is serious money too. We pay about Euro 750 for our Fiesta and almost Euro 1100 for my Jaguar per year!

The big difference between these GPS system over traditional toll roads and even road tax is you can be very flexible in how you charge for every stretch of road in the country. Not just motorway. You can have different tariffs for motorway, and even on the motorway different tariffs for using it during rush hour, day or night hours. You can have different rates for a city compared to a village.

The idea being you can influence how people use their cars. And of course in principle it allows a fairer base than a flat toll fee or flat road tax.

Next to tolls more and more cities here in Europe are introducing emission zones and you will need to pay to get in, some cars are not allowed at all. But it is essentially a toll. When driving through Europe these days your car front window will be covered in stickers for all the tolls and emission zones you are likely to encounter.

So a uniform GPS system might get rid of all this sticker nonsense too.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by gopa99

Good to see your opinion. So what would be the privacy risks in this case? I am assuming we all have google spying on us all the time through the little box in our pockets, so how is this going to be any different?

It is another device that will track your whereabouts. And you can’t switch it off. When you turn the ignition this GPS toll thingy powers on. And there is going to be an automatic deduction made from your bank account too.

Here in the Netherlands that is one thing. Extremely heavily regulated and without wanting to boast, but we have one of the most sophisticated banking system in the world. And anything taken out of my account I disagree I can revert immediately too.

I am not entirely sure this level of robustness, foolproof ness and fairness will be implemented or even possible in India. No offense.

When it comes to the Russians, or the Chinese for that matter, I would not trust them any further I can throw them. Especially when they are tinkering with electronics that can monitor me.

I would never ever let Russians or Chinese anywhere near a countries infrastructure, be that telecoms, banking etc.

The whole world is clamping down on security in the IT and Telecom space and officially and or Unofficially there is no space for parties that originate and or are controlled by states such as Russia.

And you guys bring them in to automatically deduct toll payments from citizens bank aucounts based on their monitored whereabouts?

Who ever thought that one up needs a reality check and needs to check what is happening in other democracies around the world on these matters.

Jeroen

[ShivrajG]

Who will jump in front of my vehicle if I don't have the related wallet recharged ?

When this government came I thought people like Gadkari and others are different in a better way but when they try implement shams like these I understand its better to be non-political.

I heard they were going to make RTO's centralized what happened to that project?
They couldn't even implement FastTag efficiently

[humyum]

They can't' make roads which are a basic necessity pothole free. After every rainy season, we have to chart a map and figure out where to head in India where roads might be relatively okay to not destroy the car.

They wanted us to have fast-tag, the infrastructure for which is glitchy, not present everywhere and plagued with thieves who want to double charge us. There are millions who have still not even moved to fast tag inspite of multiple deadline extensions.

Lastly like Aarogya Setu, I would not want this government GPS tracking my moments, so for me atleast, this is a no go as I don't trust them.

[arindam30]

I see some hits and some misses.

There is a plan to automatically deduct toll based on automatic number-plate reading
pilot-run-for-first-gantry-based-toll-system-on-delhi-meerut-e-way
This sounds more realistic, no privacy chaos, no new fitment in each-ear etc.

The GPS based toll seems too ambitious.

In general, for the overall Toll/highway scenario from my travel experience

Good

• Massive upgrade in infrastructure on several highways across the country in the last 4-5 years.
• Forcing Fastag. Previously there was enormous under-reporting by toll-operators (black-money)
• Plan for several regional expressways with tight completion time in next 2-3 years.

Bad / Improvement areas

• Need strict enforcement/mechanism for no-good-road = no-toll.
• Better Fastag experience. The tag readers are extremely inconsistent across plazas in Punjab / Rajasthan / UP / Bihar/ Bengal etc. Varies from few seconds to 20-30 seconds, resulting in long-long queues.
• 'Number-plate reading' based toll, if done, can be a game-changer.

[kimmig]

Originally Posted by jkrishnakj

More a rant than anything else !

Moreover, locals do not pay any tolls, whereas they use the road day in and day out and are also beneficiaries of the economic activities that precede (land acquisition, labor contracts etc which are also paid from the Taxes we pay) / succeed (restaurants, shops etc) the road construction.

[kimmig]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

There are certainly toll lanes in the USA. E.g. Dallas has lots of them. It is usually called fast tag lane.

Completely agree. US has had touchless Toll collection at 85 MPH, that's like 136 KMPH for ages now. No reason why we should be straddled with turtle speed Fasttag or a GPS based privacy busting toll collection system.

A combination of optical and contactless smart card technology should easily be able to do this. These days they have already started sending speeding tickets based on surveillance footage so they have access to the technology.

[sarav100]

The first thing people want road ministry to do is to implement a mechanism to ensure non FasTag users are actually charged double toll if they enter FasTag lane.

Here in Punjab, Haryana and J&K practice of non FasTag users entering FasTag lanes is rampant and toll booth operators do nothing about it. They charge them regular one way toll via cash even in FasTag lane too instead of charging double toll amount. I'm talking about exclusive FasTag lanes, not the hybrid ones. It is as if toll operator wants people to make use of cash method and not adopt to FasTag, by depriving FasTag users of their privileges.

Forget GPS technology, road ministry/NHAI please work to make sure toll booth operators actually charge double toll from cash payment users in FasTag lanes. That would be really helpful.

Off topic: Just for information of everyone, all toll taxes are currently free in Punjab and will continue to remain so till farmers - government negotiation don't resolve.

[DicKy]

Love Gadkari for being bullish on road constructions and new infrastructures.
At the same time, he ends up being bullish for the wrong things. Like the time he threatened to bulldoze manufacturers if they don't turn fully EV by 2030(2035?)

Sorry, but this GPS linked stuff is just Orwellian level overkill. Next what? The moment the motor starts, toll meter starts running?
Just ensure the Fastag is properly implemented without any glitches.
And where is the opposition when you need them. Rabidly barking up the wrong trees, when it comes to screwing motorists or the middle class, they are eerily silent. Maybe cause after the next election they will enjoy the revenue.

Rant mode ON
Vehemently oppose tolling on highways.
Please don't bring arguments like "You pay for what you use" OR "There is no free lunch"
By all means toll access controlled roads or expressways. Fine, it is justified.

But to collect tolls on what are essentially the basic road infrastructure needed, is not justified.
Add to that there is no end date for toll collection in most projects.
It starts from 'recovering construction costs' to 'recovering operation costs' to 'recovering for inflation/interest costs' to 'cost of maintaining the roads' to 'toll collection done to reduce congestion'

Like, where does the road tax and fuel taxes go?
Rant mode OFF

[saion666]

Why cant they fix the roads first first. Most of the so called tolled roads are not worthy enough to pay a toll for. Now after the fasttag fiasco,this new thing is being implemented.
Why is this toll collection even needed when we are paying so many taxes, another ploy to extract our hard earned money.

[Sree73]

Just a stupid thought from my end.

India consume approx 150 Billion litres of Diesel & Petrol together annually.
The toll tax collection estimated this year is 34000 Crores. (340 Billion Rupees)

Anyway, we are paying through the nose for fuel. Let Govt inrtoduce a toll tax of Rs. 2 per litre of Diesel & Petrol. Annual collection will be 30000 Crores.(300 Billion Rupees)

All these issues of running tolls and it's associated cost will be zero and Govt will make better efficiency through this move.

Now, do not beat me for this stupid thought. ☺️
We are anyway already paying close to 50 rupees or so on each litre as taxes.

[catchjyoti]

Always on GPS in my car is something that I will not be very comfortable with. This means the government can track my car anytime it wants. I know we have a tracker in our pockets too (cellphone), but I can turn on the airplane mode if I do not want to be tracked. Even in case of the Aarogya Setu app, I can turn off internet and bluetooth while I am not using the app.