Is Bull bar the culprit?

Daewood · 13th May 2010, 15:01

Saw this picture in yesterday's newspaper of an accident in a TN Highway.
This Qualis had banged into a tree and killed 4 out of it's 6 occupants.
Guess the ones who survived were the last row occupants.

If you have a look at the picture, you will notice that
even the headlights are intact. Protected by the bull bar
but i guess the entire impact got transferred to the chasis
and hence the vehicle folded up.

If that is the reason isn't it time the government took notice
and banned 'bull bars'?

pradkumar · 13th May 2010, 15:09

My car has been hit from behind by a Sumo with bull bars. It was the bull bars that did maximum damage not denying that Sumos are inherently strongly built.

I thought about writing to the RTO and insurance companies about banning mettalic bull bars. However, what can you do in this country when a vehicle manufacturer like GM shows that the Tavera has metal bumpers and trumpets it as a virtue on their website (read between the lines: save 50% on plastic depreciation cost for insurance claims).

Pradeep

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daewood

Saw this picture in yesterday's newspaper of an accident in a TN Highway.
This Qualis had banged into a tree and killed 4 out of it's 6 occupants.
Guess the ones who survived were the last row occupants.

If you have a look at the picture, you will notice that
even the headlights are intact. Protected by the bull bar
but i guess the entire impact got transferred to the chasis
and hence the vehicle folded up.

If that is the reason isn't it time the government took notice
and banned 'bull bars'?

Sheel · 13th May 2010, 15:10

Do you really feel that the 4-5K bull bars saved the front?

^scan the local news paper, it should have details on how the Qualis 'flipped' and turned turtle

benzinblut · 13th May 2010, 15:21

Looking at the pictre, I feel that this is not a head-on impact witht the tree. It looks like the car turn turtled and hit the tree only in the middle part of the roof. This has caused the central part of the qualis to badly cave in. In fact, I think that the car did not hit have any head-on collision with anything. The picture clearly shows that the only little space left in the car after impact is the 3rd row and so the occupants escaped alive.

Looking at the damage, the impact seems to be quite high. In a frontal impact, the bull bars would have been badly bent and I dont konw how much protection they could've offered.

I think the bull bar has not been hit at all and its not the culprit in this case. But bull bars do hamper the impact taking capability of the car against what its designed for and may also damage the chassis. Many manufacturers discourage its usage.

Daewood · 13th May 2010, 15:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheel

Do you really feel that the 4-5K bull bras saved the front?

^scan the local news paper, it should have details on how the Qualis 'flipped' and turned turtle

4 dead, 2 hurt as vehicle hits tree

this is the original news link

narayan · 13th May 2010, 15:29

no way bull bar can cause that. comon ! you must be joking to think that a chassis got folded up because a bull bar transmitted the forces

look at the picture and you will see that the car for sure would have slid on its side and hit a tree at the middle. the car has then been rolled over on 4 wheels

Jaggu · 13th May 2010, 15:31

Don't think its the bull bar and it doesn't look like a head on impact.

MARCUS_520i · 13th May 2010, 15:45

By the looks of it, I think the Qualis lost control, thereby going sideways, hitting the tree and the tree falling over on the LHS, thus leading to all the damage. Just my POV.

sandeepmdas · 13th May 2010, 15:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by narayan

no way bull bar can cause that. comon ! you must be joking to think that a chassis got folded up because a bull bar transmitted the forces

Totally agree, how can a bull bar transfer that much of impact force- like transmitting electricity- without damaging itself?

As mentioned by Jaggu, this is not a head-on crash. The car has got suffered structural damage in those parts which were at the receiving end.

rjstyles69 · 13th May 2010, 15:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jaggu

Don't think its the bull bar and it doesn't look like a head on impact.

Exactly, more like a T-boned effect than a head on collision.

Daewood · 13th May 2010, 15:55

if the Qualis had skid sideways and crashed into the tree,
the entire width of the car's top would have been bent/damaged,
as Highway tress are usually big in diameter.

but what we see is a deep narrow fold at the central part,
IMO only a cement elecric pole can create such a
narrow point of contact.

shankar.balan · 13th May 2010, 16:01

this is an eye opener indeed

even my Scorpio's bull bar is bolted to the chassis - are we saying this is inherently reducing whatever safety there is in the Scorpio?
expert comments would be much appreciated.

claxtoncorreya · 13th May 2010, 16:08

might be off topic, but i stumbled upon this pdf i was searching on whether bull bar nullify the effect of having crumple zones. thought i should be sharing this.

its an australian gov website link

there was no mention of direct transfer of energy from bull bar to chassis. but it was interesting to read that it might effect proper functioning of air bags and also effect pedestrian safety.

Sudipto-S-Team · 13th May 2010, 16:13

The bumper is supposed to protect the chasis of the vehicle. Bull bars protect that cheaper but more visible bumper by transfering the impact force to the much more expensive and critical chasis which remains hidden. This is simply ridiculous and only the very stupid use it for effects.
However, whether this particular accident turned fatal due to bull bar is not something I would like to hazard a guess on.

Jaggu · 13th May 2010, 16:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by shankar.balan

this is an eye opener indeed

even my Scorpio's bull bar is bolted to the chassis - are we saying this is inherently reducing whatever safety there is in the Scorpio?
expert comments would be much appreciated.

Yes and No, if its a solid set up bolted/welded heavily to the chassis then Yes. But thats not the case with the flimsy ones we have in our markets, which most often bend or snap off at the clamp on impact. Some custom built ones can be troublesome though.

Yes they are a hazard to pedestrians and in my personal opinion, would like to see it banned.

The term itself is enough to clear any doubts, they are meant for cattle farms not for streets. If people are not prepared for the normal street nicks and dents OR want to bully smaller vehicles (which is the case with most of call center cabs), i think we the so called "educated lot" should raise awareness against them.

13th May 2010, 15:01	#1
Daewood BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 940 Thanked: 234 Times	Is Bull bar the culprit? Saw this picture in yesterday's newspaper of an accident in a TN Highway. This Qualis had banged into a tree and killed 4 out of it's 6 occupants. Guess the ones who survived were the last row occupants. If you have a look at the picture, you will notice that even the headlights are intact. Protected by the bull bar but i guess the entire impact got transferred to the chasis and hence the vehicle folded up. If that is the reason isn't it time the government took notice and banned 'bull bars'? Attached Thumbnails
	(3) Thanks

13th May 2010, 15:10	#3
Sheel Team-BHP Support Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Purnea (Bihar) Posts: 9,588 Thanked: 14,404 Times View My Garage	Do you really feel that the 4-5K bull bars saved the front? ^scan the local news paper, it should have details on how the Qualis 'flipped' and turned turtle Last edited by GTO : 7th January 2013 at 13:46. Reason: As requested
	() Thanks

13th May 2010, 15:21	#4
benzinblut BHPian Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: New Bombay Posts: 516 Thanked: 878 Times View My Garage	Looking at the pictre, I feel that this is not a head-on impact witht the tree. It looks like the car turn turtled and hit the tree only in the middle part of the roof. This has caused the central part of the qualis to badly cave in. In fact, I think that the car did not hit have any head-on collision with anything. The picture clearly shows that the only little space left in the car after impact is the 3rd row and so the occupants escaped alive. Looking at the damage, the impact seems to be quite high. In a frontal impact, the bull bars would have been badly bent and I dont konw how much protection they could've offered. I think the bull bar has not been hit at all and its not the culprit in this case. But bull bars do hamper the impact taking capability of the car against what its designed for and may also damage the chassis. Many manufacturers discourage its usage. Last edited by benzinblut : 13th May 2010 at 15:22.
	() Thanks

13th May 2010, 15:29	#6
narayan Senior - BHPian Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Singapore Posts: 3,114 Thanked: 2,372 Times View My Garage	no way bull bar can cause that. comon ! you must be joking to think that a chassis got folded up because a bull bar transmitted the forces look at the picture and you will see that the car for sure would have slid on its side and hit a tree at the middle. the car has then been rolled over on 4 wheels
	(1) Thanks

13th May 2010, 15:31	#7
Jaggu Team-BHP Support Join Date: May 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 20,215 Thanked: 15,907 Times	Don't think its the bull bar and it doesn't look like a head on impact.
	() Thanks

13th May 2010, 15:45	#8
MARCUS_520i BHPian Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Mumbai Posts: 524 Thanked: 166 Times	By the looks of it, I think the Qualis lost control, thereby going sideways, hitting the tree and the tree falling over on the LHS, thus leading to all the damage. Just my POV.
	() Thanks

13th May 2010, 15:55	#11
Daewood BHPian Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Chennai Posts: 940 Thanked: 234 Times	if the Qualis had skid sideways and crashed into the tree, the entire width of the car's top would have been bent/damaged, as Highway tress are usually big in diameter. but what we see is a deep narrow fold at the central part, IMO only a cement elecric pole can create such a narrow point of contact. Last edited by Daewood : 13th May 2010 at 15:57.
	() Thanks

13th May 2010, 16:01	#12
shankar.balan BANNED Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Bangalore Posts: 11,368 Thanked: 23,150 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/2 (8)	this is an eye opener indeed even my Scorpio's bull bar is bolted to the chassis - are we saying this is inherently reducing whatever safety there is in the Scorpio? expert comments would be much appreciated.
	() Thanks

13th May 2010, 16:08	#13
claxtoncorreya BHPian Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Bangalore Posts: 27 Thanked: 2 Times	about bull bars might be off topic, but i stumbled upon this pdf i was searching on whether bull bar nullify the effect of having crumple zones. thought i should be sharing this. its an australian gov website link there was no mention of direct transfer of energy from bull bar to chassis. but it was interesting to read that it might effect proper functioning of air bags and also effect pedestrian safety.
	() Thanks

13th May 2010, 16:13	#14
Sudipto-S-Team Senior - BHPian Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Kolkata Posts: 1,320 Thanked: 290 Times View My Garage	The bumper is supposed to protect the chasis of the vehicle. Bull bars protect that cheaper but more visible bumper by transfering the impact force to the much more expensive and critical chasis which remains hidden. This is simply ridiculous and only the very stupid use it for effects. However, whether this particular accident turned fatal due to bull bar is not something I would like to hazard a guess on.
	() Thanks