[UB_007]

My proposal to you would be to find a good GLS400 (Used car) and motivate its owner to upgrade his or her drive to GL63 AMG, and make an offer you wish to get for your car .
I see some benefits here
- The GLS 400 owner is happy that he or she got an upgrade with a good deal, compared to new GL63
- You will be happy as you got the desired price for your GL63.
- You get GLS400 for half the new car price and save the balance money from the deal.
- Finally, you are not hit much by the depreciation when you want to later sell your GLS400.

Of course a new car always feels good but also leaves a big hole in the pocket and one must be ready for it.
Specially with the premium cars huge depreciation is inevitable.

-UB

[ACM]

1) All things considered I felt the offer by the Dealer was on expected lines. This is generally the case even for much cheaper vehicles.

2) As you are aware if you do sell directly you could sell for a higher price but it too will be hard.

3) Changing to higher profile tyres with a lower rim size may help in taking care of the stiff ride to some extent.

4) You point w.r.t dealer and brand support is clearly understood. But not entirely agreed with.

The pain is also understood but is also sort off expected.

[abeerbagul]

I have quite a lot of experience buying vehicles pre owned, most of them from this forum itself.
Lets analyze whether the offer of 65 lakhs by the Mercedes dealer was fair or not from a business point of view.

You have advertised this car in our classifieds for 1.05 crore. Link here:
http://classifieds.team-bhp.com/buy-...GL-Class.html/

In the ad, you have not given your mobile number or email id. That means you are not comfortable being contacted by random people. Extremely few people are going to connect with you by clicking the message button. Also you have not given your member id, so the buyer does not know if you are a tbhp member, which lowers trust on the seller.

Even if there is a genuine buyer, he will give an initial offer of at least 20% below your asking price. The sale process will include multiple test drives, where you will have to make time out of your busy schedule.
Also the buyer might want a fitness report from the dealer, so you will either have to get one yourself or let the buyer take the vehicle to the dealer for a scan and checkup.
This means logistics, time and trust.

Also you will have to deal with the ego of potential buyers, at this price point. It is not possible to decide at first meeting which buyer actually has the money to purchase. Fancy looking people are broke while simple looking people can have a lot of money.

Considering all this, you might end up selling the vehicle at 85 lakhs at best. A savvy buyer might find out your thread on team-bhp and read that the dealer is offering you only 65 lakhs, so you really do not have a Plan B at this time. This knowledge will be used by him during negotiation.

So all considered, you will get 20 lakhs more if you sell to a private party. Now this amount is nothing to be sneezed at, but relative to your purchase price of 2 crore, this is just 10% of your vehicle acquisition cost.

Personally I would not go to all this trouble to sell the vehicle to a private party just to get 10% more.

[Sahil]

Originally Posted by ACM

3) Changing to higher profile tyres with a lower rim size may help in taking care of the stiff ride to some extent.

Do you think maybe he should also change the badge to GL350d as it may help take care of the low FE perception

Come on! He’s just trying to sell the car for what it is not degrade it to make it appealing to a person who knows nothing about AMGs. I’m sure there will be takers who appreciate and acknowledge that they are getting one of the fastest SUVs around for half the price or lesser. Like I said, it’s just about getting the word out there and be patient for the right buyers to come along.

Also, I don’t think the process of selling to an indiviual is as painful as it’s being made out to be. In my experience, you need to filter out the ones that don’t seem interested and the ones that are interested will make up their mind pretty much on the spot. I have sold most of my cars this way.

[ACM]

Originally Posted by Sahil

Do you think maybe he should also change the badge to GL350d as it may help take care of the low FE perception

Come on! He’s just trying to sell the car for what it is not degrade it to make it appealing to a person who knows nothing about AMGs.

I think you didn't get the point.

The idea of change in tyres and rims was to enable him to continue using the AMG rather than shifting to GLS 400. Basically to solve the issue that was causing him to sell.

[Shivjeet]

I thank everyone for their responses. Everyone has a different view point about the matter at hand, which is fine as that's how they've interpreted it, or maybe its the case as I may not have made myself clear enough. Which is why I'll attach two more screenshots from the Mercedes Benz India website, and I'd request everyone to go through it.

It clearly shows the kind of "false" confidence, the brand is trying to build in the consumers. It is this, that I'm upset about/criticising and I was hoping people would share their experiences and criticism on the same. I know I would get a much better value if I sell it on my own, but I still had hopes from MBIL. The points about dealer profitability might be valid, but if you see it from a consumer point of view, you look at the dealership as a Mercedes Benz sale outlet and not care about the dealer's ways of doing business. You would expect every programme that Mercedes offers in the country, to be applicable/honoured and would want to take benefit of that. Also MB would expect the dealer to honour them as well.

It needs to be noted, that even the low quote I was offered was not something the dealer was ready to give instant credit (to be used in the new car) for, even though the quote was anyways unacceptable. I have also got to know now, that even high selling diesel models aren't taken in by dealers for a trade in. They sell the old car outside of the trade in programme through used car dealers, which also means not passing on the certified warranty (incase the car is eligible for it) to the new owner because the sale never happen through the programme.

After all, for how long are we going to get cheated like this? It needs to stop and that is exactly the issue I wanted people to discuss, and not tell me that I should look the other way. Posting this thread does not benefit me in any way, and the sole reason was to criticise these malpractices and double standards of car manufacturers (ML63 case). Please understand that if I were looking for advice on "how to sell my car", I would've posted in the appropriate section of the forum.

Going forward, the 2 cr spent on the vehicle was a personal choice. So telling me that I should've researched the market trends regarding re-sale of petrol vehicles, I believe does not add value to the core issue of this thread. I have also wrote before that this is the first time we were looking to sell a vehicle due to unexpected reasons, which means that they're usually driven till they're as good as scrap before being discarded (approximately a 10-15 years cycle) and not so early in their life. So re-sale value due to unacceptability of petrol vehicles in the country, doesn't really matter much and isn't given importance at the time of such purchases. Even if the GL63 doesn't sell at a good price, it'll not be as bad for us as it'll still be used quite a bit but maybe not as much as it would be by a new owner.

For those who are wondering why we were looking at the GLS 400 to be the replacement, which is obviously a downgrade, is because we were looking at another comfortable petrol SUV which could be used for a decade without limitations. The stiff suspension of the GL63 has its limitations and can't be used for long trips outside the city with old family members accompanying you. So it practically becomes a full size performance SUV that you prefer not taking on long routes and like using only in the city. Such limitations should only be applicable to a sports car. Since we had expectations for the trade-in system to be honoured and were looking for a smooth transaction, we thought of the GLS 400 as its a car from the same manufacturer. If it wasn't the case, we would've obviously sold the car on our own, which wouldn't be as smooth and would acquire a different car from the sale proceeds.

Not honouring trade in transactions defeats the whole purpose of having the programme in the first place, and it should be officially shut down so that new buyers aren't misguided and have zero hopes from it at the time of re-sale. Knowing all of this MBIL refuses to step in to support which is completely unacceptable. Maybe it doesn't affect most of us as we're now used to such scams, so we prefer to look the other way and encourage everyone to do so.

Lastly, I would like to apologise, as my previous post wasn't taken well by many. I also apologise for the repetitive writing behaviour of this post, but I really have no option . I hope there's no more confusions.

[Turbanator]

that even high selling diesel models aren't taken in by dealers for a trade in

Agree, and this is true across brands in luxury segment particularly, BMW Dealers gave us an offer of 38-40 Lac for our 2-Year-old 730-D with a 3 Year BSI pack if we buy a new 730 at his price. I could sell the same car at a much higher price and got a lower price from a different dealer on the new 730-D.

But, I must add this happens globally, when my brother tried to sell his 2-Year-old Lexus LX 460, dealer will not offer more than 40 K whereas he got offers beyond 50 K at kijiji ( like OLX)

As a customer, while trading in, we expect the dealer to make most of his money on a new car and some reasonable amount on the old car he picks from us, but it does not work like that, maybe old car sales and new car sales are independent cost centres & owners want even more profits on old sale business. If we see the prices of BMW or Mercedes Old Certified cars and the value they put to our cars, margins can be as high as 50 %.

I am glad you have mentioned about your grievances in more details now and as others have suggested, best will be to sell on your own, keep the word in your circle about your plans, at the end we need just one buyer!

The stiff suspension of the GL63 has its limitations and can't be used for long trips outside the city with old family members accompanying you.

I have not ridden GL so won't have an accurate assessment, but maybe you can consider downsizing tyres, I did on mine X6 from 20 inches to 19 inches and it made a lot of difference. Also, you or others may even laugh at, but my mother prefers our Petrol Innova over any other car including 7 or X5 So when you buy a new car this time, take your grandparents along and let them chose a car, you may be surprised at their selection altogether.

[Sahil]

Turbanator - Just out of curiosity what did you land up selling your 2 year old 730d for finally when the dealer was offering just 40?

Also, german car dealers typically make around 3%+ incentives(which vary depending on the brand). However on used cars like you mentioned they expect to make 50% margin. This huge disparity is the root cause of rip off trade in values. The parent company doesn’t not get involved at all in trade in’s and it’s at the dealers discretion as though it’s a completely independent business. The brands should get involved and ensure the margins are not left this high so customers get a fair buy back price.

[quickdraw]

Originally Posted by Shivjeet

They sell the old car outside of the trade in programme through used car dealers, which also means not passing on the certified warranty (incase the car is eligible for it) to the new owner because the sale never happen through the programme.

Hey Shivjeet,

Really bummed to read about how your dealer and Mercedes India has been treating you. I think Mercedes has been acting like this because they are leading the sales charts, funny that in the entire country of a billion people they barely must be selling the same amount of cars as a city dealer in the USA. They need to realise the brand perception is moot here if they desert the people who are willing to bet crores on their products doubt they will worry much about a plebian with his 'regular' Merc.

Before buying the Mini, a CLA45 AMG was on my shortlist. But people who own Mercs especially AMG's recommended me that I steer away because of the massive cost of ownership and bad service/support. I have to second the information about these cars getting sold via 3rd parties after you've traded them in. Very shady, but the dealer said this is because the dealers 'buy' these cars from them and not that they are given to be offloaded, can never be sure. This coupled with the impractical nature of the car pushed me away from getting my first AMG. Thankfully there are ample options in NCR to get 3rd party support on sale or service of European cars and hopefully, you can find it a new home.

Originally Posted by Sahil

Also, german car dealers typically make around 3%+ incentives(which vary depending on the brand).

No way, how can they sustain a business like that on 3% margin?

[Nikhilb2008]

Originally Posted by quickdraw

No way, how can they sustain a business like that on 3% margin?

Service.

Not just Mercedes Benz, but all dealerships around the world make very small margins on the sale of new cars.

They have huge margins on spares, accessories and service.

This is the CORE of the profit of a dealership.

The turnover from car sales is good to cover your fixed costs like rent, salaries, etc. Profit though comes only from service.

[Shivjeet]

Guys, with some research and assistance of the dealer, we have found a solution to one of the major reasons why the car was being sold. The main reason we didn't need the GL63 anymore, was because of the fact that it has a really harsh suspension setup which older folks started complaining about over the years. Do note that it's harsh, and not just stiff.

Online research lead to reading about owners of the G63 AMGs (G Wagon) switching to the G550/500's suspension setup, which made it really comfortable and liveable. We had a look at the G63 before deciding to buy the GL63 instead, and trust me, the G63 rides like a rock. Evidently, there are more number of G63's so there are bound to be more number of owners dissatisfied with the suspension, as all buyers don't intend to use the G's off-road capabilities.

Those who went ahead with this switch, used the dampers (shock absorbers) from the G550. These successful conversions lead us to think, if a similar conversion could be done with the GL63. We started with comparing the dimensions of the dampers in our GL63 and that of the GLS400, which turned out to have the exact same exterior structure. The only difference was the rigidity in the movement, so we went just ahead by taking the risk upon ourselves and got the front two dampers installed at first. A consequent road test gave amazing results, and the AMG has now started to waft a bit.

What is surprising is that the car showed no errors whatsoever, and it works like a charm. Now we're just waiting for one of the rear dampers to arrive, as there was only one rear damper left in stock. The install should be complete within a few days, after which we'll start enjoying this beast a lot more than before. This means that the car is not on sale anymore, so those getting a kick out of this thread can calm down.

Some of you suggested that I should look at a different profile of tires, which seems like a good solution but that'll make a difference of maybe about 5% at max. But this conversion which is going to cost about 6-7 lakhs, is going to help us keep this beast till its last days. By the way, the dealer and his team has been really kind in helping us with this conversion and we really appreciate it. We have kept all pros and cons in our mind before going ahead with this.

[GT3]

Originally Posted by Shivjeet

This means that the car is not on sale anymore, so those getting a kick out of this thread can calm down.

While I am happy that you found a solution to use your GL63. Also kudos to the dealer in supporting this mod. But you made an ignorant statement. Nobody on this forum is getting kicks out your ordeal and also the Moderators will not allow such conduct. I kindly request you to remove such ideas from you mind as it would help you have a healthy conversation on this forum.

[Shivjeet]

Originally Posted by GT3

While I am happy that you found a solution to use your GL63. Also kudos to the dealer in supporting this mod. But you made an ignorant statement. Nobody on this forum is getting kicks out your ordeal and also the Moderators will not allow such conduct. I kindly request you to remove such ideas from you mind as it would help you have a healthy conversation on this forum.

It obviously has a basis, so I'm not being ignorant. It's on the basis of the sarcastic messages I was getting on my classifieds ad, pursuant to the link being shared here by a member. I hope you know that team bhp threads are not just used by members, but have an unregistered audience as well, who have been sending me messages. It'll be great if you don't assume things. Thanks

[ringoism]

Originally Posted by Shivjeet

The car had cost us Rs. 1.95 cr on road and the Dealer/MBIL are offering absurd quotes of only about Rs. 65 lakhs (that too if and when they find a buyer) for this vehicle which is only 3 years old, done 19,000 km with valid extended warranty and is in immaculate condition.

Originally Posted by GTO

Sorry to hear, but frankly, the higher you go...the harder you fall. This is the rule with expensive cars.

3. The company's purchase price will always be low as they have to refurbish it and hold onto the inventory until someone comes along to buy it. Plus, the GL63 AMG isn't exactly a hot selling item.

Any 2 crore vehicle will sink in the used market. The more expensive the car, the bigger the depreciation loss.

My advice: Keep your SUV. No point selling it so early and taking a massive depreciation hit.

Yeah, great that you found a solution. I'd say that in my experience, tyre profiles can make much more than a 5% difference however, and you might want to think about it going forward if you want to further enhance comfort.

As for the rest, for future reference re: premium used car values: It's painful, but it's all "Supply and demand", baby.

"We no longer needed a high-performance SUV" - question being (respectfully), did you ever really "need" one... And might it be that like you, very few others presently feel the need for one, either. Realistically, it's good to consider such things seriously before shelling out a couple crores... or depending on one's economic situation, even a couple lakhs.

AMG's are truly wonderful cars and I'd love to drive one, but resale, as you are discovering, is probably not a strong point - they are very much a niche-market vehicle, not everybody's cup of tea, and you have to remember that depreciation, from the company's perspective, has to be measured on a monthly basis.

A buddy in Knoxville, TN who runs a European car specialty shop had this C55 AMG sitting on his used-car lot for many months last year losing value - pristine car but couldn't find a buyer at a mere 5lakhs!



He was having trouble selling a beautiful M3 (V8) at that same time, as well. He owns an Aston Martin (Vantage) and had a Ferrari and various Porsche/BMW under repair when I was there - which is to say he's working around high end and exotics day in / day out and understands the market - but he had been getting burned on these and some much more expensive deals, and was keen on getting out of the resale side of the business altogether.

Just saying, seeing it from the other's side, the company would be assuming quite a lot of risk by taking one of these in and hoping to sell it at even a marginal profit. It is definitely a buyer's market for these sorts of cars.

Personal example: I once had a BMW 7-series for which someone had paid around $50,000 new - their flagship at the time; Some years down the road I was able to pick it up - in really nice condition - for $7,000, incidentally the same market value by then as a nice 3-series of the same year. The top-tier cars have traditionally been expensive to maintain (the 7-series had twelve on-board electronic control units, any one of which could cost $1,000 to replace), and once the warranty period wanes, very few people want to get involved. The truly rich can afford to buy a new one, the not-so-rich are going to find them a real drain on the purse. So they sit in dealer lots, or sell for a small fraction of their original price.

As GTO has indicated, this is probably just the reality in almost any case.

-Eric

[Sahil]

Congrats Shivjeet, that’s a great solution worked out. I’m glad the dealer thought out of the box and went out of their usual protocol to execute this. Kudos to the dealership.
Which dealership was this?

Originally Posted by quickdraw

No way, how can they sustain a business like that on 3% margin?

They make most of their money on service. Wherein there is neglible or no discount with much higher margins.
It’s kind of like the way printers are sold to you are lower margins but they make a heafty margin on cartridges and other consumables.
As mentioned, the dealers make a good amount in target incentives. I have very often got the dealer to shed their entire margin on the car and they have agreed to do so because they know there is a cushion beyond this which will be a payout in incentives.
Hence month end, quarter end and year end are the best times to buy a car as dealers have targets to meet and are willing to bend extra to clock in their numbers to be eligible for the big prize money.