[RoadTiger]

My search for my next car in the less than INR 25 lakh OTR range (upto 22 lakh ex-showroom)- Would love to get inputs from fellow Team-BHPians

Requirements :

1) 5+2 seater used most of the time by family of 4
We're a family of 4 - with 2 kids, both <12 years. We already have a refined sedan that works well for in-city driving. This vehicle would be the 2nd in the garage, for some in-city driving - but predominantly for outstation driving.

Parents dont live with us and dont typically do long road trips with us. Ocassionally we may have parents in the car with us for 10-20 kms trips in city. Hence, third row of seats rarely to be used by adults

We like to travel long distances upwards of 500+ kms in a day. So third row expected to be a place where 1 kid can doze off, especially because we frequently start early in the morning for long trips.

Boot space with all 3 rows up expect to take in 2 cabin bags (this ends up making Safari/ XUV700 a no-go) This is because that's the typical luggage we travel with for 3-5 day trips and if the boot cant take 2 small trolley bags (inflight cabin size) then the third row would need to be split - leaving seating space -and not sleeping space in 3rd row

2) Comfort & refinement
Comfort for first and second rows for long distances is very important - good seats, ventilation, reclining, creature comforts, airy sunroof, good music system - important

Refinement (engine & cabin) & Low NVH important - We've had long rides in body-on-frame vehicles like Innova and while they offer robustness, we dont like the in-cabin movement (getting tossed around) and lack of refinement (noise from engine, vibrating gear lever etc)

We drive mostly on national highways (4-lane) and occasionally on state highways. Rarely do any off-roading unless the road to reach a hotel/farm house needs some basic driving on kuccha roads. So think a monocoque should do just fine.

Comfortable ride quality at medium to high speeds - to keep out road imperfections - is important too.

Low in-cabin noise, refined driving experience is very high on the priority list.


3) Engine & Safety
Me and my wife like to drive mostly in the 90-100 kmph range on highways, occassionally upping to 110 max, if roads allow that. We're not enthusiastic drivers (0-100 in x seconds is totally meaningless), we drive with a light foot - like to cruise at steady speeds - relaxed driving style. Looking for engines that have enough grunt to cruise happily all day long, without feeling strained. Also, a tall 6th gear would be helpful to have 100 kmph at 2000 rpm or so (max)- to have an engine spinning in a relaxed manner

Mileage is an additional parameter - prefer real-world mileage of 14-15+ on highways, to avoid fuel cost being a deterrent to travel long/ insane distances. Hence, preference for diesel (in addition to the joys the torquey diesel engines bring to the table)

Given the travel patterns, we're looking for all the standard safety equipment (6 airbags, ESC, hill hold, TPMS, parking sensors, reverse camera etc) - as well as solid build quality/ sheet metal thickness - to manage in case of an accident at 90-100 kmph speeds on highways.

Also, a car that has low probability of any unexpected breakdowns viz. niggles, leakages, part failure etc if serviced well

We keep cars typically for 10 years - so not really bothered about re-sale values. However, should be easy to maintain - service once in a year, reliable parts, serviceability in most B-category towns helpful

Shortlist :

Given all the above, have ruled out the Crysta (refinement) - and the Safari (boot space) even though they are both very capable vehicles.

Choice narrowed down to :
1. MG Hector Plus Diesel - Refined, Diesel from Fiat is nice, ticks most boxes, long term reliability unknown, boot space barely adequate, cushy ride, small inconveniences like no sun-shades for second row, no physical buttons for functions like AC controls etc
2. XUV Diesel - lack of reclining 2 row/ captain seats and boot space an issue. Niggles in early batches as well as loooooong waiting period a concern
3. Alcazar - Nice car overall, incl. refinement. However, front styling an issue - and feels somewhat cramped esp in third row. Choice of 1.5 Diesel also a question for relaxed cruising
4. Kia Carens - same as Alcazar largely, somewhat better interior, boot space and styling (vs Alcazar), very practical, questions on how relaxed can the 1.5 D be over long distances, good ride quality - Yet to test drive
5. Jeep Meridian - Could be a potential choice, but expect it to be in the 35-40 L OTR range - at which price not sure about the value for money quotient. Plus Jeep isnt exactly known globally for reliability. But could consider - budget not a showstopper - if all other boxes ticked. Yet to be launched - perhaps post June

Love to hear perspectives. Thanks in advance

[poloman]

Surprised to see 'refinement' as prime decision making factor for a 7 seater highway cruiser. I have requirement for a 7 seater and test driven some of the cars you have mentioned. Personally, I feel other cars cannot hold a candle to Innova in terms of comfort and space.

[Iyencar]

The only real option here is the Carens. However, Kia's kept mum on the crash worthiness. If the boot of the Safari is not enough then neither will those of the XUV 700, Hector and Alcazar. Doubt a Jeep Meridian will fulfill your criteria of B-Town serviceability.
Despite what manufacturers are trying to convince us of, the only real 7 seaters are in the category of the Innova and above. All the rest have 2 seats stuck in the booth with half a forearm of boot space (Carens is the only recent exception).
Since budget is not an option and you have a sedan for city driving, the Carnival might fit the bill. Else perhaps a used Endeavour 2.2 considering your driving style and your highway driving requirements.

[RoadTiger]

Originally Posted by Iyencar

The only real option here is the Carens. However, Kia's kept mum on the crash worthiness. If the boot of the Safari is not enough then neither will those of the XUV 700, Hector and Alcazar. Doubt a Jeep Meridian will fulfill your criteria of B-Town serviceability.
Despite what manufacturers are trying to convince us of, the only real 7 seaters are in the category of the Innova and above. All the rest have 2 seats stuck in to booth with half a forearm of boot space (Carens is the only recent exception).
Since budget is not an option and you have a sedan for city driving, the Carnival might fit the bill. Else perhaps a used Endeavour 2.2 considering your driving style and your highway driving requirements.

Thanks, yes, the Carnival is a contender (while stretching the budget) but need to assess once the facelifted one arrives on our shores (hopefully soon). Yet to test drive one.

The Safari's boot at 70-odd litres is a joke - most others are at least 150 litres plus (not sure about XUV700) - ok enough to accomodate 1-2 cabin-sized bags

[One]

Originally Posted by RoadTiger

Shortlist :
4. Kia Carens - same as Alcazar largely, somewhat better interior, boot space and styling (vs Alcazar), very practical, questions on how relaxed can the 1.5 D be over long distances

Love to hear perspectives. Thanks in advance

Can comment on Carens diesel from your list as I drove it recently for quite a bit.

Originally Posted by RoadTiger

Low in-cabin noise, refined driving experience is very high on the priority list.

In cabin noise is good by old diesel truck standards like Innova but not so much as newer ones.

Originally Posted by RoadTiger

...in addition to the joys the torquey diesel engines bring to the table

This is not the Carens. You can refer to my comments here (Kia Carens Review)

Originally Posted by RoadTiger

Given the travel patterns, we're looking for all the standard safety equipment (6 airbags, ESC, hill hold, TPMS, parking sensors, reverse camera etc) - as well as solid build quality/ sheet metal thickness - to manage in case of an accident at 90-100 kmph speeds on highways.

Can't comment on safety aspects like build quality till something officially gets tested but on quality aspects, it lacks a certain finesse. For example the headrest in second row does not get affixed to the base. So when you tumble the seat, the headrest sometimes just gets extended, and hits the first row chair. Another example is when you manually tumble the second row seat, it literally hits the floor with force and rebounds back. My comments on some of these aspects here (Kia Carens Review)

Originally Posted by RoadTiger

We keep cars typically for 10 years - so not really bothered about re-sale values. However, should be easy to maintain - service once in a year, reliable parts, serviceability in most B-category towns helpful

I don't know about this car lasting 10 years but the interiors & mechanisms don't seem durable enough as mentioned above.

Summary is the diesel in Carens is not the engine to buy and I don't think one should consider this as a robust 10 year car. Otherwise space management / utility wise (ingress/egress) it is probably the best combination available today.

The Carnival is one not shortlisted by you so am assuming maybe it doesn't fit some of your criteria (also is an overkill if three rows are not regularly used).

The Innova 2.4 is fairly refined from NVH and comfort perspective so slightly surprised , you may want to look at it afresh with proper tyre pressure (assuming you are fine with the shape)

Let us know what you eventually end up with

[Rajeevraj]

From what you have said, the only real need for a 7 seater seems to be for your kids to sleep in the back one in each row. Since you have called out safety as a priority, it would be wrong to not point out that having unbelted kids in a sleeping position on highway drives is not really a safe thing to do, especially in a vehicle with 6 airbags.

If that is the only need for a 7 seater, would it not be better to look for a spacious 5 seater where the kids will be more comfortable? Also, you are going to keep the car for 10 years and your kids will grow up soon and will anyway no longer be able to use the rear seats for sleeping.

[RoadTiger]

Originally Posted by Rajeevraj

From what you have said, the only real need for a 7 seater seems to be for your kids to sleep in the back one in each row. Since you have called out safety as a priority, it would be wrong to not point out that having unbelted kids in a sleeping position on highway drives is not really a safe thing to do, especially in a vehicle with 6 airbags.

If that is the only need for a 7 seater, would it not be better to look for a spacious 5 seater where the kids will be more comfortable? Also, you are going to keep the car for 10 years and your kids will grow up soon and will anyway no longer be able to use the rear seats for sleeping.

Agree - thanks. The 3rd row of seats is not seen as a necessity - but will end up providing flexibility for those ocassional times when there is a need to ferry around more than 4 (e.g. friends of kids, parents etc)

Agree that a kid sleeping in the last row may not be safest idea. Also, as they grow up - we're thinking the captain seats potentially can provide an alternate place to sleep for the kids

[Kosfactor]

Do you really need a diesel? On occasional highway trips the cost difference cannot be recovered in a reasonable amount of time , plus the DFP in BS6 diesels need good amount of running to keep clear.

You do get better NVH and lower maintenance costs from a petrol which I think you should consider.

[RoadTiger]

Originally Posted by Kosfactor

Do you really need a diesel? On occasional highway trips the cost difference cannot be recovered in a reasonable amount of time , plus the DFP in BS6 diesels need good amount of running to keep clear.

You do get better NVH and lower maintenance costs from a petrol which I think you should consider.

Agree that a petrol may be worth considering esp for NVH - however, typically my highway runs log about 10K kms a year - That said, fairly open to petrol as well. Thanks

Originally Posted by One

Summary is the diesel in Carens is not the engine to buy and I don't think one should consider this as a robust 10 year car. Otherwise space management / utility wise (ingress/egress) it is probably the best combination available today.

Thanks. Yet to test drive the Carens - but seems like the Seltos diesel AT was highly praised in the official review and by Bhpians that own one - for its driveability, refinement (for a diesel) - and didnt seem to indicate lack of power.

Now I know the Carens is a 7-seater with somewhat higher kerb weight (i would guess may be 60-80 kgs more) - but wondering how that could dramatically affect the desirability of the diesel and cause it to strain so much. May be Carens is very conservatively tuned - for better FE

[pratyaksh]

Monocoque 5+2 seater, my choice would be the Skoda Kodiaq. Better than running a BS6 Diesel which might not be worthwhile for your running. 9 airbags, semi decent last row, great engine+gearbox combo, AWD (you don't need a 4*4) but the AWD will get you out of any sticky situation, expanding Skoda dealerships is Tier 2 and 3 towns is a relief.
You'll have to wait till 2023 to get your hands on this one though.
Happy hunting!

[heydj]

Only two cars come to my mind looking at your requirement. XL6 and Innova Crysta. Not perfect but as far as 3 row cars go these are more spacious then the others.

Safety is a concern in XL6 but hopefully updated version will be better. Rest as others suggested spacious 5 seater is next best option. However even I don't know if there is any as I found XUV 700 in second row had less space with first row seats fully pushed back.

[Bhargav7]

You may add the upcoming Tucson 7 seater to the list. It fulfills all your criteria to the dot. Expected some time in the next two quarters.

[JediKnight]

If you are ok with a market flopped model with a threat of getting discontinued Marazzo fulfills your requirements to the T.

Is super comfy and refined. Sound insulation is very good. The 1.5 D has terrific midrange and is a superlative cruiser in the 80-120 Kmph range. Not to mention the superb build and 4 star 12.85 GNCAP safety rating.

[yesyeswe]

You have mentioned captain seats for comfort, ventilated seats you would like to have, you liked the fiat's 2.0 engine in Hector, you want good fuel economy on highway, moreover 3rd row whenever needed or folded to keep luggage.

If you put all these filters while searching only TATA Safari XZA+ 6 seater comes up.
It is the only car in the segment which has ventilated seats in the 2nd row in the captain seats variant. The seats have staged setup where the 2nd row gets view of the road ahead too.

You get fiat 2.0 engine with an excellent Hyundai torque converter unit, all the reviewers on our forum have pointed that the power train is excellent with very good power and a decent fuel economy on highways.

Even though there's no boot with the 3rd row up but I have seen videos where people have put up roof carriers on top and so you can carry luggage too. The 3rd row is fairly comfortable too.

The car has decent set of features apart from the slow infotainment unit but the JBL sound system is good with subwoofer. There's even a very big panoramic sunroof too! Your kids, even you would love it.

The car is a looker(my personal opinion) and even the driving dynamics are good on the highways(everyone's opinion). The platform is land rover derived, I don't know how that much helps.

See there's not a perfect car, you have to compromise some to get some, we Indians prefer to get everything that is there and some more too so take test drives and see what you like. I would have definitely gone with the Safari.

Or forget everything and get a Innova!

[RoadTiger]

Originally Posted by Bhargav7

You may add the upcoming Tucson 7 seater to the list. It fulfills all your criteria to the dot. Expected some time in the next two quarters.

I didnt realize Tucson had a 7-seater avatar that was coming to India. Is the 7-seater confirmed ? Definitely would like to assess. High on refinement and comfort in current/ previous generations

Originally Posted by JediKnight

If you are ok with a market flopped model with a threat of getting discontinued Marazzo fulfills your requirements to the T.

Is super comfy and refined. Sound insulation is very good. The 1.5 D has terrific midrange and is a superlative cruiser in the 80-120 Kmph range. Not to mention the superb build and 4 star 12.85 GNCAP safety rating.

Ah that's certainly a practical car. But very difficult to live with its (dated?) looks and taxi image. I think M&M screwed up on the styling & marketing.

Originally Posted by yesyeswe

You have mentioned captain seats for comfort, ventilated seats you would like to have, you liked the fiat's 2.0 engine in Hector, you want good fuel economy on highway, moreover 3rd row whenever needed or folded to keep luggage.

If you put all these filters while searching only TATA Safari XZA+ 6 seater comes up.
It is the only car in the segment which has ventilated seats in the 2nd row in the captain seats variant. The seats have staged setup where the 2nd row gets view of the road ahead too.

You get fiat 2.0 engine with an excellent Hyundai torque converter unit, all the reviewers on our forum have pointed that the power train is excellent with very good power and a decent fuel economy on highways.

Even though there's no boot with the 3rd row up but I have seen videos where people have put up roof carriers on top and so you can carry luggage too. The 3rd row is fairly comfortable too.

The car has decent set of features apart from the slow infotainment unit but the JBL sound system is good with subwoofer. There's even a very big panoramic sunroof too! Your kids, even you would love it.

The car is a looker(my personal opinion) and even the driving dynamics are good on the highways(everyone's opinion). The platform is land rover derived, I don't know how that much helps.

See there's not a perfect car, you have to compromise some to get some, we Indians prefer to get everything that is there and some more too so take test drives and see what you like. I would have definitely gone with the Safari.

Or forget everything and get a Innova!

The Safari certainly has my heart - Drooled over how the Harrier looks and the Safari is no different - Am a Tata fanboy (not Tata Motors necessarily - but Tata as a group) and the LR platform is something.

However, the test drive was slightly underwhelming - liked the engine, though for some reason seemed slightly less refined that in the Hector plus, the AC blower was noisy (could've been a one-off) and the interior fit & finish was average (didnt seem special). The non-existent boot was an issue. The sales experience was the worst of the lot - very little interest in servicing the customer (even though I wouldnt see that as a deal-breaker while buying a product that I hope to use for a decade) The high speed ride was good, confidence inspiring. The 3rd row was spacious

As you suggest, perhaps another test drive is warranted.