[cruising_rapid]

1. If back seat comfort and long term reliability are your non-negotiable criteria then I would humbly suggest you to have a re-look at Innova crysta even in the used car market, as its comfort and long term reliability is legendary to say the least. It's True Blue fill it, shut it and forget it car. I got to experiance it in Yr 2018 and started appreciating it's fine Japanese qualities only after that. I am sure Innova's underpinnings are still rock solid. QDR(Quality, Durability and Reliability) isn't just a marketing formula for Toyota, these qualities actually exist in its products.

2. Also please stay away from VW Skoda group as with them failure of major components like gearbox, EGR, injectors is not a question of if but rather a question of when. I am sharing it with you with my personal experience of having owned a Rapid diesel for more than 6 years.

3. Kia Karens also looks VFM and it can meet all your needs including 6 airbags while fitting in your budget. It should be your 2nd choice if Innova can't be accommodated due to budget constraints. But since it's a new product, so long term reliability can't really be commented upon.

[One]

Am wondering if buying a new/used petrol GX Innova or used Fortuner pre facelift will be an option:
- I would probably look to modify second and third rows to incorporate a seat and a bed and storage (these two rows of seats won't have airbags in them
- Have extra space which mostly will be needed
- Ability to pick and slide into the backrow to sit vs push and bend into the backrow to sit.

Let us know what you eventually end up with.

[RedMaw]

Thank you everyone for your suggestions. I could not reply individually but I did take your suggestions and test drove Carens.

My wife and I visited the KIA showroom last Sunday and had an extensive look at Carens. Although Carens seems to be an extended Seltos, we believe it’s an extended Sonet. Seltos ingress and seating position is higher than Carens. For example, my wife hit her head while entering Carens, right after entering Seltos. She expected the same level of ingress but carens sits a bit lower on par with Sonet. Comparing build quality, Carens seems to be matching Sonet and not Seltos. Seltos doors had good heft and Caren’s door seems very thin. Even with added seats and extended frame, the weight of Carens is not much higher than Seltos (as per SA). When prodded further the SA said, Carens was built with mileage in mind, so the weight will be only marginally higher. Other than build concerns, Carens seems to be tick all boxes with planted ride and noiseless cabin. My wife was not convinced of build quality at all. At my insistence, We halfheartedly booked a 1.5 Prestige model at ~12 Lakh on road (had to forgo Auto box to save some amount). Waiting period is 5 months but SA promised delivery in 3 but we might end up canceling it, if my wife Veto's it.

We took a ride in MG hector of my acquaintance, and my wife felt it as bouncy on highways but very comfortable within the city. I think due to very soft suspension it was bouncy on highways. So we have rejected Hector.

Innova is the one car that ticks all boxed and is readily available in the used car market albeit with the highest prices. We have driven and ridden Innova many times as T board but somehow we could not bring ourselves to look at it as a personal car. But I did look at a couple of used Innova Crystas 2016/2017 models and they quote around 16-18 Lakhs depending on mileage. I and my wife have to sit down and have a chat regarding Innova before deciding further.

My wife wanted to book Creta as well but I am hesitant due to the impending arrival of facelift. Here the SA said, facelift will come in 3 months but he can’t guarantee. Does anyone who when is the facelift coming?

I had long thought about modifications, jolted down a couple of points

• Modifying a car takes time and money. As such, it makes sense to keep the car forever once modified.
• To keep a car forever, reliability has to be paramount and spare parts have to be easily available.
• With regards to point 2, it makes sense to purchase a new car.

Is my thought process correct? Does it make sense to buy a new car? For example at 23L Innova GX far exceeds my CTC. But if I am keeping it for 10-15 years will it be worth it to extend beyond my budget and take the plunge. Apologies for my indecisiveness.

[RedMaw]

I went ahead and cancelled the KIA Carens booking. First it was builld quality which my wife was very apprehensive about and then the hike and now better built Creta getting 3 stars has questioned the safety of Carens. Now we are back to square 1. I am not sure whether higher end Creta might have better safety rating since it has 6 airbags and ESP etc. My wife and I discussed about booking XUV700 and parking the car outside, but the variant we are interested in costs around 25 Lakhs which is 1.5 times more than my CTC. Should I spend that much for a safe car? Any thoughts?

[RedMaw]

I have booked MG Hector Sharp CVT. Its almost 6 L more than our initial budget but it ticks most boxes. We are yet to do test drive and parking check but based on reviews here, I went ahead and booked it. That's how much I trust the people here. Without 3rd row and with huge boot space I am thinking it will be easier to modify in future if needed. Dealer is ready to deliver in 1.5 months but I have asked for updated version, so the wait continues.

[manpreetsj]

Originally Posted by RedMaw

I have booked MG Hector Sharp CVT. Its almost 6 L more than our initial budget but it ticks most boxes. We are yet to do test drive and parking check but based on reviews here, I went ahead and booked it. That's how much I trust the people here. Without 3rd row and with huge boot space I am thinking it will be easier to modify in future if needed. Dealer is ready to deliver in 1.5 months but I have asked for updated version, so the wait continues.

Congratulations! After reading your requirements, Hector came in my mind straight away! I personally prefer to stay away from Hyundai and Kia for poor built quality, that too at 15 lakhs+ price point. I have been in search of my next car and after multiple TDs and getting feedback from fellow members on Jeep Compass vs Hector thread, I went ahead and booked Hector Sharp CVT. Same as you, I will wait for facelift, which I believe should come out by August basis historical release timelines (Hector launched in June 2019, Hector Shine variant introduced in Aug 21. Similarly, Gloster Savvy variant was introduced in July 21). These pre festive months probably are used by MG and other car manufacturers to gain more bookings.

[RedMaw]

Originally Posted by manpreetsj

Congratulations! After reading your requirements, Hector came in my mind straight away! I personally prefer to stay away from Hyundai and Kia for poor built quality, that too at 15 lakhs+ price point.....

Actually, Creta ticks all boxes, but somehow I cannot convince myself to buy it at 20.5L. We are still in oscillation because earlier we had a ride in our acquaintances Hector and we found it to be bouncy but comfortable. So we are yet to fully commit on Hector as we await for an extended test drive. My wife has motion sickness so we have to test it out in Hector.

[RedMaw]

My car search seems to be never ending. After waiting for 2 months just for Hector test drive, me and my SO were beyond pissed at the lack of service from MG dealer FPL vehicles. I was chasing them for TD every week and I was given either false promises or useless reasons for non-availability of TD vehicle. I escalated upto the CRM level without any resolution. I am a patient guy and I avoid escalations or antagonizing people but I have my limit. Last week, we were on the edge of our patience and started looking at other options. Obvious choice was booking a Creta and through some contacts I was promised delivery within 1 month. But, I was not ready to buy Creta at ~21L. We had a re-look at the rejected cars and decided to drop indoor parking criteria and park the new car outside. This brought back the XUV700 AX5 version and Toyota Innova Petrol G AT into consideration and we included the new Hyryder as well. My SO rejected Innova again because of the MUV stance and lack of 6 airbags. We rejected Hyryder due to unknown vehicle, reduced boot size and lack of width. This left us with only one option of XUV700.

XUV700 Revisited

I called the Mahindra SA and asked them for a call back to discuss XUV700 but he offered to bring TD vehicle to home and discuss during TD itself. I agreed and true to his word, he was at my home within an hour with a diesel manual AX7L model. Compared to MG experience, this was a pleasant surprise. My SO and I had a good look at XUV700 and we were impressed by the lack of size. That was not a typo, I know XUV700 has large dimension and offers good interior space but from outside it did not show its true size. XUV700 looks like civilized brother of XUV500. My SO liked the back seat and generous under thigh support but I felt the under thigh support was lacking in middle seat. There was enough leg space in middle but the biggest issue was middle row was not sliding , I mean at 26L you will be expecting these things. How much did they save by not adding runners for middle seat. Me at 5'9" and 105 Kgs, was able to sit in last row with reduced comfort. I can sit for couple of hours max in last row and its best suited for thin built ladies or kids only. Last row of Carens was the best of all 7 seaters I have tried so far. Another drawback was boot space or lack of boot space when all 7 seats are up. SA confirmed we can hardly fit couple of laptop bags. Build felt solid and heavy but build quality still needs to be improved. Door did not have a solid thud like European cars. Where did all the 2000Kgs went Mahindra?

We went for TD and outright I liked the welcome retract function. I had to climb in the drive seat and was at home within minutes in a comfortable driving position. Diesel clutch was heavy for my liking but I was not bothered due to choice of going for Petrol AT. Manual was too distracting for my liking and I could not concentrate on the drive or features of car. Steering was light and I had to devote some effort to make sure nobody was hit due to the large size of vehicle. High seating was a boon and blind view monitor was a distraction. Vehicle felt solid and low speed ride was good but not great. I could feel some bumps on the road. On highways, vehicle was very planted and I could not feel any swaying motion. Steering weighed up but it was not enough and tackling high speed curves were not confident inspiring. Highway ride was very good at front and middle seat. Some how the cabin was both good and bad? I mean some parts of cabin felt low quality and should not be present in this car at this price range and some parts felt premium. Astor was the most premium cabin I was ever in and it costs 6L less. XUV700 does not have auto dimming IRVM, no ambient lighting and no ventilated seats all of which Hector has. I am guessing these are reserved for updates. After TD, we had a chat with SA and felt that at 23L AX5 has very few features and at 26L AX7 was out of our extended budget.

Hector TD

After this experience, waiting for Hector TD seemed pointless, so I went ahead and cancelled my booking of Hector on Saturday. SA was very polite but offered no apology for not providing TD. I felt that MG advisers took professionalism to extreme and came out as non-caring and apathetic. I left a 1 star review in google maps and when MG corporate called to check why I cancelled my booking, I told them my situation of not getting a TD for 2 months. Both of these seems to have done the trick and I got a new Hector for TD on Wednesday, within 3 days of cancelling booking. The car had run 4500 Kms and was petrol AT 5 seater. Even though I was sour due to the experience so far, the car was still impressive. It was big and has enough width to accommodate me, my SO and one more person in middle row comfortably. Compared to XUV700, I felt the cabin was modern and premium but my SO disliked the leather. She said it feels like it belongs to a hatchback not in a SUV. Under thigh support was good and I felt Hector offers more space in middle row than XUV700. Shifting to the front, there is no welcome retract like XUV700 but i was able to settle into comfortable position within minutes. I could read the dials very clearly but I disliked the lack of physical buttons in central console.

The ride was smooth and I felt like riding on clouds. Bumps were not transferring to cabin at all. Only at speed breakers there were significant sway but otherwise the ride was good. Hector did not feel solid like XUV700. In highways, one push of the pedal takes the Hector above 100 within seconds. I did not feel the engine was lacking/under powered at all. Steering was light even in highways and tacking curves was ok only. Car felt light on highways and not planted like XUV700. In highways XUV700 feels like driving a tank and Hector feels like driving a car. Ride was still smooth and I did not feel any bounciness. Maybe its the new car but last time I was in hector i felt it was more bouncier in highways. In the back seat, I could feel some sway/bounciness but its normal for a SUV. Somehow I felt low speed ride was a bit harsh in back seat compared to front seat. Overall I liked Hector and I could see myself driving it happily for 10 years.

Finalizing again

The thing with bad experience is, once you experience it, it will be very difficult to over come it. No matter how good you have it after that, the bad experience will steer your course of action. The same happened with Hector for us, even with 2 months of non-stop bad experiences, I felt that Hector was very good. But no matter how good the car is, due to the bad experience so far, all the doubts in back of our mind, the small issues which were ignored previously came back strongly now. We justified that we want a 7 seater even thought we do not need one right now. We justified XUV700 was solid even though Hector also had good built. With XUV700 AX7 model we had to rework our finances and pay 6K extra emi per month for 5 years, we had to wait god knows how many month for our car, we are losing feature and paying up more. XUV700 has so many drawbacks and disadvantageous for us compared to Hector. So as a rational, analytical, go with the brains kind of people, we booked XUV700 AX7 petrol AT model and cancelled our Hector booking. All the bad experiences stopped us from going with Hector even thought it was the right car for us.

I mean what else to do? Book Hector and be at the mercy of dealer? When I went to cancel Hector booking, I expected some push back, negotiations, apology to keep the booking and give me TD but I was offered none and they readily accepted my cancellation. It looked professional but at the same time it looked non-caring. Compared to Mahindra SA, whom I called to check price and wait list, arrived at my home with TD vehicle within an hour, without even me asking for one. Even after leaving 1 star review, MG SAs were more interested in reversing the review than providing service and every call they insinuated I raised a complaint and as a result they are providing this service. I never raised a complaint, MG corporate raised one from their end. But even if I ignore all these bad experience so far, there is still the question of having good relationship for next 10 years. I mean whats to say they wont behave in the same way and ignore me and my car for months together when we need help?

If only our MG SA was more responsive and provided TD as they promised initially, I would have been waiting for a Hector now or even driving one. But here I am happily starting my wait again for XUV700. Even with all its flaws and shortcoming in XUV700, I know for sure my Mahindra SA will not ignore me or provide false promise. At the end of the day peaceful mind is all that matters.

[Arsenic]

I’m extremely sorry to hear about your bad experience with MG. We had a fairly wonky experience with them too, as they never had a TD car that wasn’t a top-spec car, which frustrated my whole family. Eventually however, we chose to go ahead and book the Hector, even after MG gave us a TD in… the Hector Plus! But after almost 10 months, it’s certainly worked out to be a decent decision, although I can 100% understand why you’d go for the XUV instead. Eagerly awaiting the next update of this thread, and hopefully all goes to plan!

[RedMaw]

Thank you. Hector is the perfect car for us and Hector plus with 7 seater would be even better but alas Hector plus petrol top end only comes in 6 seater configuration. Dont know what was MG thinking to not give 7 seater version. Even though we had to settle for XUV700, we are actually happy, even more happier than when we booked Hector. Somehow it worked out well I guess.

[RedMaw]

Originally Posted by RedMaw

I know for sure my Mahindra SA will not ignore me or provide false promise. At the end of the day peaceful mind is all that matters.

Well, to no one's surprise, my car buying saga has taken another turn. My original SA in M&M, who promised delivery by festive season has resigned and the new SA says they cannot honor the committed timeline of previous SA. I was told the official wait time is 66 weeks and they can deliver in half that time, meaning Feb 2023. I wanted to speak to Manager but the new SA was not enthusiastic about it. Since the Manager was "not available", I gave them 10 days time to sort this out but I don't have any confidence on them anymore.

After this saga with M&M, I wanted to buy Petrol Innova but my entire family is against it. Dad wants diesel Innova since Petrol Innova do not fetch resale and diesel is no longer available. Wife is against it due to taxi image and I am also half hearted towards it, due to lack of safety features. Not sure what else I can do here. Its an absolute sellers market and it seems like every car manufacturer is hell bent on taking Indian customers for a ride. I am getting exhausted by this car search.

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by RedMaw

Innova is the one car that ticks all boxed and is readily available in the used car market albeit with the highest prices. We have driven and ridden Innova many times as T board but somehow we could not bring ourselves to look at it as a personal car. But I did look at a couple of used Innova Crystas 2016/2017 models and they quote around 16-18 Lakhs depending on mileage. I and my wife have to sit down and have a chat regarding Innova before deciding further.

Instead of a used Innova, get a used Camry for 12-16L from 2014-16 you’ll save a significant amount upfront and you’ll have a much nicer car than the Innova which won’t feel like a taxi (far fewer Camry taxis visible on the road). Specially if your wife has motion sickness, ladder on frame chassis should be the first to be ruled out. At the very least test drive one and see for yourself.

[ashokcj]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Instead of a used Innova, get a used Camry for 12-16L from 2014-16 you’ll save a significant amount upfront and you’ll have a much nicer car than the Innova which won’t feel like a taxi (far fewer Camry taxis visible on the road). Specially if your wife has motion sickness, ladder on frame chassis should be the first to be ruled out. At the very least test drive one and see for yourself.

The Innova is well known for its ride quality even though body on frame. And that’s one more reason (beyond capacity ) that it’s used quite lot in long distance journeys. But of course Camry could be likely better and comes from a higher segment

[AJ56]

Originally Posted by ashokcj

The Innova is well known for its ride quality even though body on frame. And that’s one more reason (beyond capacity ) that it’s used quite lot in long distance journeys. But of course Camry could be likely better and comes from a higher segment

The reason taxi operators love it is low cost of operation and reliability, whenever I’ve driven/ridden in one the body roll is terrible (almost as bad as Fortuner) and the sound insulation is poor, you can’t fight physics at the end of the day.

[RedMaw]

Originally Posted by AJ56

Instead of a used Innova, get a used Camry for 12-16L

We have a special needs daughter, so we need a walk-in car instead of low hung sedan.

Originally Posted by ashokcj

The Innova is well known for its ride quality even though body on frame. And that’s one more reason (beyond capacity ) that it’s used quite lot in long distance journeys.

We like Innova ride quality. Even my wife prefers Innova to any other taxi while traveling long distances.. But she is against buying it for personal usage

Originally Posted by AJ56

whenever I’ve driven/ridden in one the body roll is terrible (almost as bad as Fortuner)

Any SUV has some body roll but due to my sedate and low speed (<90KMPH) driving style its negated to an extent.


Any ideas to speed up delivery of XUV700. I am afraid to go to TATA safari due to reliability issues..