[stormsearcher]

Hey guys
My friend has a 2003 honda city automatic 1.5. Few months back she had a problem with the gearbox and the honda guys said the gearbox casing is cracked and we need to change it. So they took it for the change and it took them 3 months just to get the casing. Once changed, they returned the car saying its in perfect condition.
I took one spin on it (my friend doesnt know much about cars) and found that it was worse than before. The box was not shifting and the car was bouncing all over the place. (thats another issue, but later)

We made the honda technician come over (whitefield honda) and drive it with us sitting in it. Only after that he admitted it was not right. He took it back. When he came back saying now its fine, its showed the same problem. Which is, until the engine warms up (5-6 kms of driving) the gears dont shift normally. The car goes all the way to 50kmph before it shifts to 2nd gear. And then pulls long on 2nd too before shifting to third. But once it warms up, the shifts, both up and down are smooth.

Does anyone have any idea why this is happening, cause the honda guys have put up their hands saying they have no idea what is wrong with it.
Any views or similar experiences (with solutions :-) ) will be welcome.

[ajmat]

I dont kow enough about the problem but my guesses are:

1: After the case cracked, fluid leaked out or there was some component misalignment or probably both and has accelerated wear.
2: The belts are worn
3: If there is some electronic control unit , the connections are poor or unit defective. Something is tell it to change too late.

I dont know much about CVT's. Some bits and pieces that I found

How to avoid CVT gearbox failures in Honda City, Fit and Jazz (Sri Lankan perspective) « Rayaz on Cars and Gizmos

I try getting the belts replace first

[stormsearcher]

Thanks Ajmat.
Am clueless on Automatics. But the box was working fine even with a crack in it. Its only after the box was changed that this has started. Makes one wonder if the Honda boys messed up in putting it together.
Besides, the problem seems to go away after the engine warms up. Cant explain that either. Neither can they.

[anandpadhye]

May be the gear oil needs to warm up to work fine - can you ask them if they have used recommended AT oil?

2003 Honda City - is this the old classic shaped one or the Dolphin shaped (aka NHC on team-bhp)?

[stormsearcher]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

May be the gear oil needs to warm up to work fine - can you ask them if they have used recommended AT oil?

2003 Honda City - is this the old classic shaped one or the Dolphin shaped (aka NHC on team-bhp)?

This is the old classic shaped one. Not sure which oil they have used. If its a CVT, then i guess they would need to use the right oil. Will check on this.

[ajmat]

Old classic one is not CVT. Your car uses uses transmission fluid. My guess is that it is something to do with the valves. Have you changed fluid?

[stormsearcher]

yeah. Fluid has been changed when they put a new casing to it. Those monkeys have supposedly "road tested" the car for 123 kms. And they cant figure out what the problem is. A new gearbox would be pointless as the cost does not justify it.

[anandpadhye]

Not sure what's the difference between "gear oil" and "transmission fluid". Service guys use these terms interchangeably. The API GL-4 grade transmission fluid I bought for my Tucson (Mobil) had also "Gear Oil" written on it.

Anyways, if the right grade is not used, there can be some difference in behavior - hence I asked.

Could it be related to kick-down mode? (the ECU incorrectly thinks it's a kick-down situation even for regular accelerator input - until things warm up after which correct sense prevails...). Can you ask the service guys to check on this front...checking accelerator cable, butterfly valve, etc.

[stormsearcher]

Originally Posted by anandpadhye

Not sure what's the difference between "gear oil" and "transmission fluid". Service guys use these terms interchangeably. The API GL-4 grade transmission fluid I bought for my Tucson (Mobil) had also "Gear Oil" written on it.

Anyways, if the right grade is not used, there can be some difference in behavior - hence I asked.

Could it be related to kick-down mode? (the ECU incorrectly thinks it's a kick-down situation even for regular accelerator input - until things warm up after which correct sense prevails...). Can you ask the service guys to check on this front...checking accelerator cable, butterfly valve, etc.

Interesting. Didnt think of that. It could be the acc cable not being set properly. Will check on this. Thanks man.

[getanilkhanna]

Originally Posted by stormsearcher

Thanks Ajmat.
Am clueless on Automatics. But the box was working fine even with a crack in it. Its only after the box was changed that this has started. Makes one wonder if the Honda boys messed up in putting it together.
Besides, the problem seems to go away after the engine warms up. Cant explain that either. Neither can they.

The solution to the problem by replacing the casing has caused another problem, once dismantled the plates and other components on the valve body have been exposed to air and grime,its is very unfortunate, but the only solution is to overhaul the transmission, this will also include checking the solenoids on the valve body, please use ATF instead of Gear oil
Voltronic ATF 4K might be the best option available

Please contact me in case you are from Delhi,,,, I might be able to extend support for the overhaul

[stormsearcher]

Originally Posted by getanilkhanna

The solution to the problem by replacing the casing has caused another problem, once dismantled the plates and other components on the valve body have been exposed to air and grime,its is very unfortunate, but the only solution is to overhaul the transmission, this will also include checking the solenoids on the valve body, please use ATF instead of Gear oil
Voltronic ATF 4K might be the best option available

Please contact me in case you are from Delhi,,,, I might be able to extend support for the overhaul

Thanks anil. But the problem has sorted itself out now. I mean, looks lilke the box had to be 'broken in'. We let it run as it was for a while and now the car is smooth as before and the shifts have become even better, almost indiscernible.

[iceman1]

Hi, I own a 2001 OHC Automatic which I bought about 1.5 yrs ago and have been really happy with it. Unforutnately, the Auto gearbox seems to have developed a fault last week and my car is currently out of action.Since there was a similar thread already, i thought its best to post my query here rather the start a seperate thread.

Well the problem is that:-

* the gear shifts have become very jerky and rough.
* Loss in pick up.
* The car seems to go into a kind of limp mode where although the car engine is running including the AC etc, there seems to be no response at all from the gear box no matter how hard i step on the accelarator. This usually happens after the car has run about 5 kms or so. the car doesnt go beyond 25 km/hr when this happens.

Sent the car immediately to Hallmark Honda to have it checked. The service head there is known to me and looks after my cars pretty well.He recommended changing the Transmission fluid which we did. The car seemed to be alrite when i took delivery and some of the noises had dissappeared. So yes the change of Transmission fluid did help but the rest of the problems still persist. I will be sending the car back to them on Monday.

I am trying hard to avoid opening up the tranny as that could be an expensive proposition. Need all the help i can get.

[getanilkhanna]

Originally Posted by iceman1

Hi, I own a 2001 OHC Automatic which I bought about 1.5 yrs ago and have been really happy with it.
==========================
I am trying hard to avoid opening up the tranny as that could be an expensive proposition. Need all the help i can get.

Well it seems that you have a bigger problem than you hoped, normally the ATF change helps in case the vehicle is driven less than 50k, in your case an ATF change only helped a wee bit, I guess you have no choice but opening up the tranny, please do not get it dismantled anywhere, I can help if you are in mumbai or Delhi- the problem is with the valve body solenoids

[iceman1]

Originally Posted by getanilkhanna

Well it seems that you have a bigger problem than you hoped, normally the ATF change helps in case the vehicle is driven less than 50k, in your case an ATF change only helped a wee bit, I guess you have no choice but opening up the tranny, please do not get it dismantled anywhere, I can help if you are in mumbai or Delhi- the problem is with the valve body solenoids

Thank you for your valuable advice. I did speak to your associate Indrajeet who was kind enough to quote a minimum expense of 50K - 60K that too without actually explaining what is actually broken or what i would be paying that amount for !! All i was supposed to do was pay the cash and be ready for paying even more if the job demanded so. Kindly mention hence forth that you have personal business interests involved in your advice.

[getanilkhanna]

Originally Posted by iceman1

Thank you for your valuable advice. I did speak to your associate Indrajeet who was kind enough to quote a minimum expense of 50K - 60K that too without actually explaining what is actually broken or what i would be paying that amount for !! All i was supposed to do was pay the cash and be ready for paying even more if the job demanded so. Kindly mention hence forth that you have personal business interests involved in your advice.

Respected Sir, The automatic gearbox is a concealed unit comprising of drums which house the various clutch and pressure plates, in order to determine the problem the tranny has to be dismantled and in that case scenario, the plates which are constantly submerged in ATF are exposed to air and grime, there is a 90% chance that these plates need to be changed, unfortunately inderjeet was unable to explain this to you, he is not a marketing person and his role is to identify the problem and rectify it, Inderjeet has been working on auto boxes before they even prevailed in this country, I would also like to bring to your attention that I have no business interests with the 12000+ mechanics associated with me across the Indian Nation, I am only trying to help people like you who fail to understand that repairs can be conducted on a component level thereby reducing the cost as compare to a part level wherein the entire gearbox is replaced and comes at an exorbitant cost, I apologise if i have in any way let you down