[RM2488]

Hello all,
This is my first post on Team-BHP. I recently bought a Ford Ikon Flair secondhand, and I've been fixing it up slowly. One of the things I wanted to do was to get the injectors cleaned. The car has an issue- I need to depress the accelerator while starting it, but then it idles well at 700-800 RPM. On rare occasions, it stalls, but ONLY when I'm in neutral, or when I disengage the clutch (the car is in motion in both cases). I wanted to rule out the injectors before I moved on to something else, since it has new air and fuel filters, new plugs, the ignition coil is fine, and the throttle body is clean. The car has done 88K already, so a look at the injectors seems warranted.
Now the issue- the fuel rail is bolted to the manifold by two bolts. The bolts must've been over-torqued the last time they were removed, because when I tried to remove them, the nut (inside the fiber) also rotates counter-clockwise. The mechanic says if I break it open, I'll have to replace the entire intake manifold, and I verified it- it is all one piece to be sure. So is there a way anyone can think of to remove the bolts WITHOUT damaging the fiber?
Thanks in advance,
Rohit Mahajan.
P.S.- My last resort is to clean them by using an injector cleaner in the fuel- I'm not sure how effective it will be, since I won't be able to see the spray patterns of the injectors.

[Catalyst_delhi]

Does not look like an injector issue to me. I will rule this to a few below:

1. Fuel Filter
2. IACV valve bad - easy to clean but not on ROCAM but on the older pushrod
3. Clutch sensor loose or disconnected(on top of clutch pedal)
4. Inertia fuel switch bad( almost 99% sure this is the case) - it is on the left hand below the glove box. It is the switch with the red button. It needs replacing. It has two wires - you can connect it direct without the switch and check if your issues are resolved
5. Fuel pump ( very less chances if the car revs up to 4 k)
6. Neutral cable loose

Try the above if you are sure else leave it to a mechanic , Working with car electricals can be dangerous.
I can give you the ikon service manual +EECV manual but you have to convert it from spanish. Sure helped me a lot.

Good luck

Ismail Ghani

Originally Posted by RM2488

Hello all,
This is my first post on Team-BHP. I recently bought a Ford Ikon Flair secondhand, and I've been fixing it up slowly. One of the things I wanted to do was to get the injectors cleaned. The car has an issue- I need to depress the accelerator while starting it, but then it idles well at 700-800 RPM. On rare occasions, it stalls, but ONLY when I'm in neutral, or when I disengage the clutch (the car is in motion in both cases). I wanted to rule out the injectors before I moved on to something else, since it has new air and fuel filters, new plugs, the ignition coil is fine, and the throttle body is clean. The car has done 88K already, so a look at the injectors seems warranted.
Now the issue- the fuel rail is bolted to the manifold by two bolts. The bolts must've been over-torqued the last time they were removed, because when I tried to remove them, the nut (inside the fiber) also rotates counter-clockwise. The mechanic says if I break it open, I'll have to replace the entire intake manifold, and I verified it- it is all one piece to be sure. So is there a way anyone can think of to remove the bolts WITHOUT damaging the fiber?
Thanks in advance,
Rohit Mahajan.
P.S.- My last resort is to clean them by using an injector cleaner in the fuel- I'm not sure how effective it will be, since I won't be able to see the spray patterns of the injectors.

[RM2488]

Thanks for the prompt reply Ismail.
1. The fuel filter is brand new!
2. It IS a ROCAM engine. What does the IACV valve do exactly? If I'm not wrong, it means "Idle Air Control Valve", and if it were bad, it would make the engine stall every time in neutral\clutch disengaged.
3. Any way to check the clutch sensor? The clutch functions smoothly, but I get the feeling the sensor tells the ECU to vary the RPM somehow.
4. I can wire up the switch no problem. But the issue is, this happens so rarely that it is difficult to know if it fixes the problem.
5. The car revs up to 4K without hiccups, with\without engine load.
6. Again, I think this is related to #3, but I don't know the location.
The service manual would be useful- I'll use Google Translate, it shouldn't be too difficult to get the gist.
Regardless of whether it fixes the stalling issue (which happens rarely), I would like to see the injectors. So that is my #1 priority for now.

[Catalyst_delhi]

Injectors cleaning should be easy. The clutch sensor is mounted on the clutch pedal. In my ikon i can see that the clutch sensor keeps the rev for about 1.5 secs when i change gears. I cannot upload the pdf on teambhp due to large size. i will upload it on rapidshare and post here.

Try the inertia switch , mine was gone as the magnetic ball and socket developed play and the switch could not deliver proper amps.

The idle air control valve would come into picture if the clutch sensor is open and car is not put into gear for 2 seconds. it feeds air needed to idle at close throttle. Also get WD40 and spray into connectors - helped my car a bit.

[RM2488]

I would clean the injectors if I could get them off! The fuel rail is stuck, the bolts were probably over-torqued till the fiber broke. Now they just turn in place.
I will definitely try the inertia switch tomorrow. Any way to test it? As in, does it short out when the car is moving? A multimeter hookup should allow me to test it.
I will also check the clutch sensor, and look for the neutral line.
But regardless, I need a way to remove the fuel rail without smashing the intake manifold. At the moment, they're fused together, and I can't think of a non-invasive way to separate the two.
P.S. I don't think rapidshare allows that anymore. Or maybe that was megaupload. in that case, I'll PM you my email.

[Catalyst_delhi]

Originally Posted by RM2488

I would clean the injectors if I could get them off! The fuel rail is stuck, the bolts were probably over-torqued till the fiber broke. Now they just turn in place.
I will definitely try the inertia switch tomorrow. Any way to test it? As in, does it short out when the car is moving? A multimeter hookup should allow me to test it.
I will also check the clutch sensor, and look for the neutral line.
But regardless, I need a way to remove the fuel rail without smashing the intake manifold. At the moment, they're fused together, and I can't think of a non-invasive way to separate the two.
P.S. I don't think rapidshare allows that anymore. Or maybe that was megaupload. in that case, I'll PM you my email.

The resistance between the first and last pins is 2 ohm or less. Inertia switchs always fail when it is moving and can be good if stationary.

2nd hand fuel rail and intake is around 3k in market. new injectors should be around 4 k for 4.

[RM2488]

Ah, I did some fiddling today.
1. The inertia switch is right above the OBD II connector, right? The one with the big red rubber cap? It did have "1st inertia switch" written on it. So there probably is a second one somewhere. I opened it up completely, and assembled it again. There was nothing wrong with it really... but I don't think it gives an open reading whenever the car is in motion.There's a ball-bearing inside, with a magnet holding it down. It DEFINITELY does not move. Unless you tip the switch over 180 degrees and tap it. This cuts off fuel supply. So I assume it's for situations where the car turns turtle. A side-to-side motion definitely did not trip it. Once tripped, it wont close again until the button is pressed. So that wasn't it.
2. The clutch sensor was also another switch, a spring loaded pressure contact switch. It was in correct working order. But I did this for the first time, depressed the clutch while cranking the engine, and voila! No accelerator required! Is this how an Ikon is supposed to be started?
3. So that leaves the neutral line. Any idea where it is?

As far as possible, I want to avoid a replacement, if it can be fixed easily. I'd like to stick with the intake I have now, which is working well, rather than a second hand intake which cannot be tested until it is put on the engine. But that is probably what I'll have to do. I actually don't exactly know how to check if an intake manifold is alright by visual inspection. The cost isn't an issue, but I'd like to avoid it none the less.
The service manual will help, if you could upload it.

[RM2488]

Now what would you know, I got the Ikon user manual today (Not the service manual), and the starting procedure IS apparently depressing the clutch and cranking it! I've been doing it wrong for the last three weeks!

That still leaves me with a jammed fuel rail though. Any ideas? I figured maybe I could drill out the bolt. But how would I fix a new one then?

[Catalyst_delhi]

Originally Posted by RM2488

Now what would you know, I got the Ikon user manual today (Not the service manual), and the starting procedure IS apparently depressing the clutch and cranking it! I've been doing it wrong for the last three weeks!

That still leaves me with a jammed fuel rail though. Any ideas? I figured maybe I could drill out the bolt. But how would I fix a new one then?

Yes always depress the clutch , Drilling out the bolt is ok but risky, If you are good with DIY then by all means. Did you try reading the codes off your car. IF not then you might want to get an ELM reader.

[ramzsys]

Offtopic, but..

Originally Posted by Catalyst_delhi

service manual

Catalyst, do you have the service manual link? If so, can you pm me?

thanks

[Catalyst_delhi]

Originally Posted by ramzsys

Offtopic, but..



Catalyst, do you have the service manual link? If so, can you pm me?

thanks

Here you go...

Manual FORD EEC-V Zetec ROCAM.pdf - 5.0 MB

The mechanical service manual is over 50MB.Will upload soon

[RM2488]

I'm thinking of developing a reader on an AVR, so that is definitely gonna happen at some point. I don't think the engine is giving a code though. I might be wrong of course.

Staying on topic, I can definitely drill it out. It's the fixing back part that worries me. The way I see it, the fuel injectors have to be placed just right. Of course, not to mention, it has a pressurised fuel rail behind it. One slip and there'll be nicely atomised petrol spewing into a hot engine bay. Doesn't really seem worth it.

On another note, the electrical manual is awesome, and I can't wait for the mechanical one.

MODS: Can't we make exceptions to the file size limit for such cases? It'll give solid redundancy. You could have a PM-for-link system to save on bandwidth and prevent hotlinking. The way I see it, only serious petrolheads would want the manual... which is pretty much what the membership of Team-BHP consists of. But only a fraction of those would own THAT particular car.

[Catalyst_delhi]

Originally Posted by RM2488

I'm thinking of developing a reader on an AVR, so that is definitely gonna happen at some point. I don't think the engine is giving a code though. I might be wrong of course.

Staying on topic, I can definitely drill it out. It's the fixing back part that worries me. The way I see it, the fuel injectors have to be placed just right. Of course, not to mention, it has a pressurised fuel rail behind it. One slip and there'll be nicely atomised petrol spewing into a hot engine bay. Doesn't really seem worth it.

On another note, the electrical manual is awesome, and I can't wait for the mechanical one.

MODS: Can't we make exceptions to the file size limit for such cases? It'll give solid redundancy. You could have a PM-for-link system to save on bandwidth and prevent hotlinking. The way I see it, only serious petrolheads would want the manual... which is pretty much what the membership of Team-BHP consists of. But only a fraction of those would own THAT particular car.

Download Motor 1.6L Zetec Rocam.pdf for free on uploading.com

This is the engine mechanical manual.

[RM2488]

EXCELLENT! This should help out a lot. BTW is this one completely applicable for my 1.3L ROCAM as well? Or are there some differences?

I did try an injector cleaner (fuel additive), and it seems to be working. The engine now runs much smoother, quieter, and has become more rev-happy. Also, it has definitely increased the torque. I am able to pull the engine in higher gears much more easily. I wonder how good it'll perform if I could actually remove the fuel rail to clean the injectors.

[Catalyst_delhi]

Originally Posted by RM2488

EXCELLENT! This should help out a lot. BTW is this one completely applicable for my 1.3L ROCAM as well? Or are there some differences?

I did try an injector cleaner (fuel additive), and it seems to be working. The engine now runs much smoother, quieter, and has become more rev-happy. Also, it has definitely increased the torque. I am able to pull the engine in higher gears much more easily. I wonder how good it'll perform if I could actually remove the fuel rail to clean the injectors.

Yes everything is the same on both motors. Kindly share which additive you use? Try an italian tune up with the additive