converting a FWD to a RWD....POSSIBLE?

twister · 14th April 2006, 23:12

hi!!!
is it possible to convert a Front Wheel Drive system into a Rear Wheel Drive by any sort of modification ??

if yes,then how??n how much wud it cost?? n and will it be fruitful or just a waste of time,money n energy??

PS - im not talking about any particular car,just consider a chassis with an engine mounted in the front,delivering power to the front wheels.

thanx

revharder · 14th April 2006, 23:23

it'll give serious problems in handling and performance.
better not to try this.

2fast4u · 15th April 2006, 00:40

this will be a unique creation as never seen Cross engine with RWD - maybe some exist but i am ignorant on that. practically its gonna be very hard to get the engine turning wheels if its in cross position may have to change to Inline, i suppose.

viper · 15th April 2006, 08:29

Hi,

It is definitely possible but will require extensive modifications depending on what the base car is.

Viper

BUSA · 15th April 2006, 11:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by viper

It is definitely possible but will require extensive modifications depending on what the base car is.

Viper can you please tell us the cost and the time it will take to be done. Lets take the base car as the Octavia RS as thats one machine which can have 400bhp but requires RWD as it torque steers. Also let us know can a FWD be converted to AWD and its cost as well. Again taking base car as Octavia RS.

viper · 15th April 2006, 12:54

Busa,

If and when you do want to get it done give me a call. I do not talk shop on TBHP.

Viper

humyum · 15th April 2006, 13:31

Yes dude..u can convert a front wheel drive to rear wheel drive..take for example a maruti 800...u can change the direction of the engine...nd fix it like the omnis engine is fixed(same engine..different positions)..nd then fix the omnis gear box,propeller shaft,live axle..but u ll need to raise the suspension of the maruti 800..for that..otherwise the propeller shaft will end up touchin speed breakers..nd breakin...

Mpower · 15th April 2006, 19:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by BUSA

Viper can you please tell us the cost and the time it will take to be done. Lets take the base car as the Octavia RS as thats one machine which can have 400bhp but requires RWD as it torque steers. Also let us know can a FWD be converted to AWD and its cost as well. Again taking base car as Octavia RS.

Octy is easiest, just get the HALDEX parts from the GOLF 4 motion, bolt on and drive away.

sbasak · 17th April 2006, 12:42

It is often possible.

You may observed that even FWD cars have transmission tunnels inside the car.

So the tranmission shaft can be carried to rear differential, if required.

However, most probably the cost will not justify it.

twister · 17th April 2006, 22:13

can ne`1 please direct me to some website where i can get full information regarding the same conversion in DETAIL please???

Mpower · 18th April 2006, 04:46

If you have no particular car in mind, then how do you expect to find a detail plan to convert it to RWD.

twister · 18th April 2006, 23:26

@ mpower :- okay,lets take the OHC 1.5 into consideration....remove the whole body structure...every single thing....so now we are left with just the engine , chassis and the wheels...okay? (like,the way all the new busses ,autos n blah blah come) now i want the engine to turn the rear wheels instead of the front ones......for that we have two options

1) remount the engine (90* flip) + put a differential at the bakk ,connect it to the engine wit a long shaft....and make the rear wheels turn

2) place the engine @ the bakk and make it turn the rear wheels like it does the front ones

** is it possible to mount the engine at the bakk by creating new mounting points???

i just want to know the whole concept very CLEARLY in detail...please help

thnx

Rehaan · 19th April 2006, 03:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by twister

......for that we have two options

If you really want to get creative (since you have mentioned option 2), then you could leave the engine as is and have a chain driven rear axle

cya
R

veyron1 · 19th April 2006, 14:59

@twister; NO, it is not possible to convert a OHC to a RWD as you mentioned. the only POSSIBLE way is to mount the engine at the rear- but the expense or cost of doing that might exceed the cost of the car itself, by "x" times- no to mention the mechanical complexity, and the fact that the car could be virtually undriveable under daily conditions.
secondly, the chassis of the OHC is not designed for taking RWD mods- the frame is monocoque, so no "stripping" the body and doing the mods; the entire body IS THE CHASSIS.
thirdly, the tunnels that you see in FWD cars do not have clearance to accomodate a propeller shaft. the tunnel is designed for frame/chassis rigidity, nothing else.
four; twister, if you REALLY wanna wonder about the RWD conversion, try this; the honda cr-v has a transverse mounted engine with part-time 4wd. instead of mounting the engine longitudinally, start wondering about RWD/4wd with transverse mounting, which has a better probability of success. like Mpower mentioned, the vRS can be converted to AWD using the haldex kit- maintaining transverse engine mounting. BUT, i do not see any significant gains from the conversion; the haldex AWD design is heavily dependent upon electronics, isn't it? and the tractional gain would not be significant- unless the distribution can be split upto 80:20, biasing rear. ah, and at least 300 bhp for putting that AWD to use.

Mpower · 20th April 2006, 03:27

Veryron, you're almost there....but you can still pull off a RWD.

So take a CRV, trans bolt it on to the OHC engine, remove the front halfshafts. Lock the front diff, short circuit the visous coupling in the back, and you have a RWD OHC. Of course, you have to fabricate a rear cross member to mount the diff and the lateral arms and relocate the exhuast/cats from the tunnel to make way for the prop shaft. Also need new wheel hubs and uprights in the rear. CRV trans has what is called a PTO.

Option 2 is midengine.......basically you have to cut a BIG hole inthe floor pan where your rear seat and fuel tank reside. You will lose a lot of torsional stiffness! Fab a couple of longitudinal chassis rails that run from the B-pillar to the rear strut tower........so that you can hang the engine, new shifter linkage, new fuel tank location, new rear cross member/engine cradle and you are good to go.

Now if you want N-S engine, then it gets interesting and complicated. You have to extend the front chassis rails by 6 -10 inches and relocate the radiator/condensor etc. Drill into the engine block to fit the mounts fabricate a new mount on the rail. Find a RWD trans from another RWD car (say Versa). Mate it to the engine, design a new shifter linkage for it.......pray like hell that it wont hit the tunnel........but sadly it will.........so you cut the tunnel and open it up.........pray like hell that the clutch pedal will still fit. (now you know why you cant drive a Miata with snow boots) Now repeat all the steps I mentioned regarding rear K-member in option 1. Now you still need new body work, longer hood and fenders and your car will look and behave nose heavy. OHC hoodline is really low, so you're gonna have to put a bulge on the hood to clear the timing cover. Now you know why RWD cars have long hoods.

So, there you go.....in the order of difficulty and ...........insanity. Now tell me how much money you have in the bank?

14th April 2006, 23:12	#1
twister BANNED Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: new delhi Posts: 143 Thanked: 12 Times	converting a FWD to a RWD....POSSIBLE? hi!!! is it possible to convert a Front Wheel Drive system into a Rear Wheel Drive by any sort of modification ?? if yes,then how??n how much wud it cost?? n and will it be fruitful or just a waste of time,money n energy?? PS - im not talking about any particular car,just consider a chassis with an engine mounted in the front,delivering power to the front wheels. thanx
	() Thanks

14th April 2006, 23:23	#2
revharder BHPian Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: New Delhi Posts: 460 Thanked: 56 Times	it'll give serious problems in handling and performance. better not to try this.
	() Thanks

15th April 2006, 00:40	#3
2fast4u BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: pune / Bahrain Posts: 488 Thanked: 7 Times View My Garage	this will be a unique creation as never seen Cross engine with RWD - maybe some exist but i am ignorant on that. practically its gonna be very hard to get the engine turning wheels if its in cross position may have to change to Inline, i suppose.
	() Thanks

15th April 2006, 08:29	#4
viper BANNED Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,773 Thanked: 20 Times	Hi, It is definitely possible but will require extensive modifications depending on what the base car is. Viper
	() Thanks

15th April 2006, 12:54	#6
viper BANNED Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,773 Thanked: 20 Times	Busa, If and when you do want to get it done give me a call. I do not talk shop on TBHP. Viper
	() Thanks

15th April 2006, 13:31	#7
humyum Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 2,782 Thanked: 5,598 Times	Yes dude..u can convert a front wheel drive to rear wheel drive..take for example a maruti 800...u can change the direction of the engine...nd fix it like the omnis engine is fixed(same engine..different positions)..nd then fix the omnis gear box,propeller shaft,live axle..but u ll need to raise the suspension of the maruti 800..for that..otherwise the propeller shaft will end up touchin speed breakers..nd breakin...
	() Thanks

17th April 2006, 12:42	#9
sbasak BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: CCU-LTN Posts: 608 Thanked: 14 Times	It is often possible. You may observed that even FWD cars have transmission tunnels inside the car. So the tranmission shaft can be carried to rear differential, if required. However, most probably the cost will not justify it.
	() Thanks

17th April 2006, 22:13	#10
twister BANNED Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: new delhi Posts: 143 Thanked: 12 Times	can ne`1 please direct me to some website where i can get full information regarding the same conversion in DETAIL please???
	() Thanks

18th April 2006, 04:46	#11
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,732 Times View My Garage	If you have no particular car in mind, then how do you expect to find a detail plan to convert it to RWD.
	() Thanks

18th April 2006, 23:26	#12
twister BANNED Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: new delhi Posts: 143 Thanked: 12 Times	@ mpower :- okay,lets take the OHC 1.5 into consideration....remove the whole body structure...every single thing....so now we are left with just the engine , chassis and the wheels...okay? (like,the way all the new busses ,autos n blah blah come) now i want the engine to turn the rear wheels instead of the front ones......for that we have two options 1) remount the engine (90* flip) + put a differential at the bakk ,connect it to the engine wit a long shaft....and make the rear wheels turn 2) place the engine @ the bakk and make it turn the rear wheels like it does the front ones ** is it possible to mount the engine at the bakk by creating new mounting points??? i just want to know the whole concept very CLEARLY in detail...please help thnx
	() Thanks

19th April 2006, 14:59	#14
veyron1 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Mumbai Posts: 1,424 Thanked: 53 Times View My Garage	@twister; NO, it is not possible to convert a OHC to a RWD as you mentioned. the only POSSIBLE way is to mount the engine at the rear- but the expense or cost of doing that might exceed the cost of the car itself, by "x" times- no to mention the mechanical complexity, and the fact that the car could be virtually undriveable under daily conditions. secondly, the chassis of the OHC is not designed for taking RWD mods- the frame is monocoque, so no "stripping" the body and doing the mods; the entire body IS THE CHASSIS. thirdly, the tunnels that you see in FWD cars do not have clearance to accomodate a propeller shaft. the tunnel is designed for frame/chassis rigidity, nothing else. four; twister, if you REALLY wanna wonder about the RWD conversion, try this; the honda cr-v has a transverse mounted engine with part-time 4wd. instead of mounting the engine longitudinally, start wondering about RWD/4wd with transverse mounting, which has a better probability of success. like Mpower mentioned, the vRS can be converted to AWD using the haldex kit- maintaining transverse engine mounting. BUT, i do not see any significant gains from the conversion; the haldex AWD design is heavily dependent upon electronics, isn't it? and the tractional gain would not be significant- unless the distribution can be split upto 80:20, biasing rear. ah, and at least 300 bhp for putting that AWD to use.
	() Thanks

20th April 2006, 03:27	#15
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,732 Times View My Garage	Veryron, you're almost there....but you can still pull off a RWD. So take a CRV, trans bolt it on to the OHC engine, remove the front halfshafts. Lock the front diff, short circuit the visous coupling in the back, and you have a RWD OHC. Of course, you have to fabricate a rear cross member to mount the diff and the lateral arms and relocate the exhuast/cats from the tunnel to make way for the prop shaft. Also need new wheel hubs and uprights in the rear. CRV trans has what is called a PTO. Option 2 is midengine.......basically you have to cut a BIG hole inthe floor pan where your rear seat and fuel tank reside. You will lose a lot of torsional stiffness! Fab a couple of longitudinal chassis rails that run from the B-pillar to the rear strut tower........so that you can hang the engine, new shifter linkage, new fuel tank location, new rear cross member/engine cradle and you are good to go. Now if you want N-S engine, then it gets interesting and complicated. You have to extend the front chassis rails by 6 -10 inches and relocate the radiator/condensor etc. Drill into the engine block to fit the mounts fabricate a new mount on the rail. Find a RWD trans from another RWD car (say Versa). Mate it to the engine, design a new shifter linkage for it.......pray like hell that it wont hit the tunnel........but sadly it will.........so you cut the tunnel and open it up.........pray like hell that the clutch pedal will still fit. (now you know why you cant drive a Miata with snow boots) Now repeat all the steps I mentioned regarding rear K-member in option 1. Now you still need new body work, longer hood and fenders and your car will look and behave nose heavy. OHC hoodline is really low, so you're gonna have to put a bulge on the hood to clear the timing cover. Now you know why RWD cars have long hoods. So, there you go.....in the order of difficulty and ...........insanity. Now tell me how much money you have in the bank? Last edited by Mpower : 20th April 2006 at 03:37.
	() Thanks