[9thsphinx]

I've been facing this problem since quite a while now and need experts to comment on what could be the issue.

The Honda Jazz's gearshifts are not the best in town, but they're pretty smooth nonetheless. I have a very strange problem where, say for example, I am driving in the fifth gear and I need to brake suddenly. Right at this time, the gear goes from the fifth to neutral and down to the second or the first. Whenever I slot into the second, it doesn't slot smoothly all the way, rather it feels as if it gets stuck for a split second at 2 1/2 gear and then slots to the second.
Further, if I need to slot into the first gear from the second, it's so crude that it feels as if rubbing two unfinished stones together. Then on gaining back speed, once I move back to the second gear - same thing - 2 1/2 and then 2.

In layman's language, it feels as if something is stuck between the neutral and the second gear that rubs off everytime when the transmission is slotted in the second gear, and for the first gear, it feels as if the car doesn't want to get slotted into first and I forcefully have to go against it and put it into first.

Interesting to note is that this only happens when the car is in motion. When it is at standstill and not moving, this problem's intensity decreases to almost 20% (You can feel the semi slotting in the second and the crudeness in first, but it's just not that prominent).

What could be the problem here? Anyone else have such problems? Please help.

[GTO]

Originally Posted by 9thsphinx

Interesting to note is that this only happens when the car is in motion.

The way you describe it, and this line above, points toward a worn out clutch. Get this checked first.

If that isn't the case, check gearbox fluid (incorrect grade or running low), synchros and linkages.

[Shiv_1984]

I have somewhat similiar problem with my Brio, ofcourse not of the magnitude you have described here yet exists. Its run only 5k kms till date.
Downshifting to 2nd from 3rd at say 30KMPH is hard but gets smooth on reducing the speed. Upshifting isnt a problem. AFA your concern on getting the gears stuck in between, i feel it could be something to do with your clutch as GTO pointed out. Getting it checked is the best thing to do.

Keep the thread updating.

[humyum]

Pressure plate problem. How many kilometres has the car run ?

[9thsphinx]

Originally Posted by GTO

The way you describe it, and this line above, points toward a worn out clutch. Get this checked first.

If that isn't the case, check gearbox fluid (incorrect grade or running low), synchros and linkages.

Originally Posted by Shiv_1984

I have somewhat similiar problem with my Brio, ofcourse not of the magnitude you have described here yet exists. Its run only 5k kms till date.
Downshifting to 2nd from 3rd at say 30KMPH is hard but gets smooth on reducing the speed. Upshifting isnt a problem. AFA your concern on getting the gears stuck in between, i feel it could be something to do with your clutch as GTO pointed out. Getting it checked is the best thing to do.

Keep the thread updating.

Originally Posted by humyum

Pressure plate problem. How many kilometres has the car run ?

16,000 odd. So it can't really be the clutch - at least, that's what I thought.

I took it to the service center today and got it checked. Gearbox fluid was checked. Looked ok. Their explanation for this problem was something different. As per them, some air/air bubbles might have got stuck in the clutch and which is why the slotting was not smooth. They recommended a clutch bleed and I got it done. Result?

After a quick test drive - Better than before, but still not smooth enough.

Second solution. They had two clutch cleaner sprays (one was BC-90, not sure about the other one, but it was a white bottle) that they liberally sprayed on the clutch and let it sit for 10 minutes.

Another test drive. Result?

Still not there but a little better. I can say it's 80% cured, but I have driven a relative's Jazz before and their car's transmission is better than mine (after the bleed and spray), but I can live with this.

I was told by the SA that in case this problem crops up again, they can "Spray fix" the car anytime I want for free. Also, on the next service they'll bleed the clutch again if the problem is persistent.

[msaudf]

I think you should ask the SA what caused the air bubbles to get into the hydraulic lines. it could definitely be a leak or a shot master/slave cylinder. Basically check all the clutch hydraulics. it could simply be a faulty bleed screw.

[9thsphinx]

Ok this may not technically be a gearshift problem but I believe it may have to do with something related to the transmission. First - the slotting between gears is now comparatively smoother than what was earlier, but lately something very strange has been happening. Whenever I upshift from the 3rd to the 4th gear there is a miniscule hesitation and then a pull-back effect, before it moves ahead. You can feel the pull/jerk from the drivers seat and the transition between the 3rd and the 4th is also not very smooth. This hesitation of the car to move forward and gain more speed in the higher gear is somewhat a bother because it doesn't happen at low speeds.

For example: If I show the Jazz an urgency to upshift all the way from the 1st to the 5th gear at marginally low speeds (read 25-35 kms) this hesitation is not there. However, post 35+ kmph if and when I shift from the 3rd to the 4th it gives me this pull/push (I can't really make out) but it's like the car is nudging me that I took too long to put it into a higher gear. Now, with the Jazz and its poor low end torque it's not always possible to let the car laze around in a higher gear at low speeds, so this upshifting at higher speeds is sort of required. But then it prizes me with this kick/pull/push that is not really convenient. This happens only when shifting from the 3rd to the 4th gears.

I have driven atleast 2 other Jazz's before I consider this as a minor problem on my car. It's not really a bothersome problem, but I would wish it wasn't there at all.

Gurus, any idea what is wrong?

[ahmad.007]

Originally Posted by 9thsphinx

Ok this may not technically be a gearshift problem but I believe it may have to do with something related to the transmission. First - the slotting between gears is now comparatively smoother than what was earlier, but lately something very strange has been happening. Whenever I upshift from the 3rd to the 4th gear there is a miniscule hesitation and then a pull-back effect, before it moves ahead. You can feel the pull/jerk from the drivers seat and the transition between the 3rd and the 4th is also not very smooth. This hesitation of the car to move forward and gain more speed in the higher gear is somewhat a bother because it doesn't happen at low speeds.

For example: If I show the Jazz an urgency to upshift all the way from the 1st to the 5th gear at marginally low speeds (read 25-35 kms) this hesitation is not there. However, post 35+ kmph if and when I shift from the 3rd to the 4th it gives me this pull/push (I can't really make out) but it's like the car is nudging me that I took too long to put it into a higher gear. Now, with the Jazz and its poor low end torque it's not always possible to let the car laze around in a higher gear at low speeds, so this upshifting at higher speeds is sort of required. But then it prizes me with this kick/pull/push that is not really convenient. This happens only when shifting from the 3rd to the 4th gears.

I have driven atleast 2 other Jazz's before I consider this as a minor problem on my car. It's not really a bothersome problem, but I would wish it wasn't there at all.

Gurus, any idea what is wrong?

Ok, let me add my knowledge to your knowledge, so that we have a better understanding of the working of the transmission.
Each gear has a certain set of speeds for the different rpms, for example, the first gear may roll the car at 5-6 kmph at idle, 2nd gear may roll the car at 11-14 kmph, 4th at 35 (maybe).
So suppose you take the car at to 40kmph in 3rd gear, and then slot in the 4th gear, now while the clutch is depressed, the engine falls to the idle rpm for a short while, but the car speed is 40, which corresponds to an rpm idle+200 (suppose). So when you release the clutch, the momentum of the car has to rise the engine rpm by a certain amount to match the gear speed, and thus the car loses some speed, for example the car sheds 2 kmph and gets the engine to idle+100 rpm (suppose). This loss of momentum is what you describe as pull/push feeling.
If you slot in the 4th at speeds below 35, or around 32-33, you will get a very mild push forward, that is because now the engine is at a greater rpm than the speed of 4th gear, and the engine has to raise the car's speed, thereby losing 100/150 rpm. This is common in evry car, but the transition is smoother in some expensive cars.
Nothing to worry about at all, untill you find a Jazz which does not depict this behavior.

Now, to answer why it happens only from 3rd to 4th?
Actually I do not know, but maybe the ratio of 3rd and 4th gears are quite close, so that is why. Maybe because of your shifting pattern.

How to avoid this?
Frankly speaking, I have not driven Jazz, but a common practice is avoiding the jerky gear, i.e., stretch the 3rd a bit more, and slot in the 5th at 45+ speeds if you need to cruise.
Another way is to take a little bit of accelerator just before releasing the clutch.

If this problem is particular to your car only, and you think is not what I described, then do take a shot at injector cleaning as a tryshot also, when the injectors are not clean, then also the car depicts jerkiness.

Sorry for this huge reply, I might make you fall asleep while reading this, but once I start writing on a technical issue its hard to end it. Hope this helps you.

[harsh_m]

Even I am facing the same issue, especially when downshifting from 3rd to 2nd gear. Deccan Honda, Pune told me that there was a new type of mechanism (also in the new City) due to which there is sensation that the gear shifting is hard.

Another issue I face is vibrations in the front window panes ,especially on the driver side. At times its quite mild and hardly noticeable but many a times its there and its quite apparent. Obviously, when the mechanic took a test ride there was no vibration! It happens on all speed ranges and on good as well as bumpy roads. May be the downside of having large windows?
My car is a Jan'13 model and driven around 7000 kms till now

[selfdrive]

I have a July '09 Jazz, bought preowned in April 2011. Ever since I bought it, I have had this issue when slotting into first gear from a higher gear. The issue is not there when I start off.

As I have not done much about it, I guess I have learnt to live with it. I will certainly look at this thread with interest as the guys at the service station have not been able to do much with it.

[SirAlec]

Two remedies initially. One is to bleed the clutch. Second is to check the lever housing and bushes.

If not then definitely clutch releasing bearings and springs is the culprit.

[parulkgupta]

I also have a similar problem. At times i feel while going from 3 to 2 and 2 to 1 the gearshift gets very sticky. My jazz is only 3k km old. The SA told me to use the clutch less than fully pressed. Somewhere close to half. Why is that. He said he would adjust the clutch for that.

Hope its ok, any views gentlemen?

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by parulkgupta

The SA told me to use the clutch less than fully pressed. Somewhere close to half. Why is that. He said he would adjust the clutch for that.

If he does that, I suspect it will affect the mileage even if it is a slight dip. I must warn you I am not an expert in these (or any other) topics. Perhaps one of the experts here can advise better.

I am a bit confused why the SA would say something like that. No offence meant, but can you please confirm if it is not feasible for you to fully press the clutch? Perhaps due to height or ankle issues?

[ahmad.007]

Originally Posted by selfdrive

If he does that, I suspect it will affect the mileage even if it is a slight dip. I must warn you I am not an expert in these (or any other) topics. Perhaps one of the experts here can advise better.

I am a bit confused why the SA would say something like that. No offence meant, but can you please confirm if it is not feasible for you to fully press the clutch? Perhaps due to height or ankle issues?

The clutch has most of the action in the top 30% of travel in most cars, so this might be a reason for the SA advising such a thing.
But this is something I do not recommend as it may increase the wear and tear of the clutch parts. Having said that, I have sometimes done this "half clutch" shifting, unmindfully. It does not work for shifts from N to 1, 1 to 2 and N to R, for these shifts you need to fully depress the clutch. For 3 to 4 and 4 to 5 it is a breeze and a smooth affair. But still, it is highly advisable to fully depress the clutch while shifting.

[selfdrive]

Originally Posted by ahmad.007

But this is something I do not recommend as it may increase the wear and tear of the clutch parts. Having said that, I have sometimes done this "half clutch" shifting, unmindfully. It does not work for shifts from N to 1, 1 to 2 and N to R, for these shifts you need to fully depress the clutch. For 3 to 4 and 4 to 5 it is a breeze and a smooth affair. But still, it is highly advisable to fully depress the clutch while shifting.

Considering I am close to fully depressed myself, I transfer all the depression to the clutch for any and all gear shifts. I was wondering if I was doing something wrong, but thanks for clarifying this!

Just one point, the hardness (or bumpiness) of changing from 2nd to 1st is still the same in my Jazz regardless of how much the clutch is pressed (half/ full/ three fourths)