[Garipagol]

Originally Posted by DWind

I do not agree! AFAIK you always use your handbrake. This is to avoid your clutch getting burnt. The key is coordination. The steps to be followed is

1. Put the hand brake.
2. Slot to first gear.
3. With your right leg on the accelerator (ready to accelerate), your hand on the hand brake, release your clutch till biting point
4. Release handbrake (immediately) and accelerate and releasing the clutch at the same time.

This ensures that
1. Your clutch does not get burnt out.
2. You do not roll back
3. You do not need to use more than necessary acceleration (more quiet and elegant)
3. and can be done on any car which you are not used to.

And never ever use your second gear, unless you have a torquey engine. And even then not always.

I fully agree that the advice of not using yor hand brake is not correct at all. However, do not apply your hand brake when the car is moving. You will be in for a jolt and / or your car may fishtail. Apply your hand brake when the car comes to a stop. I have always used the hand brake on a slope when in a manaul car.

I learnt my driving (27 seven years ago) in New Zealand (North Island) where the terrain undulates a lot. Roads going uphill at 20/30 deg incline are common and then a stop sign at the crossing at the top of the slope. The correct procedure is to go up in 2nd gear (or even in first if you need more torque) and stop at the sign and apply your hand brake so that you do not roll back. Once it is your turn to move forward go into first gear and apply gas slowly and slowly start releasing the clutch you will feel the biting point of the clutch (in your seat!!) i.e when it engages the gear. The car will try to move forward. Release the hand brake and increase the gas and move forward slowly. If your are the 5th guy at the stop sign you have to keep doing it till you reach the top of the slope. Practice.. pratice ...

At the driving test they will make you do this several times at different inclines. If your car rolls back even an inch or rabbit hops because you put in too much gas -- that will be the end of the test.

It is unfortunate that the goal of our trainers in India is to get us a licence quickly and not to make us good drivers. The bad driving habits they impart to us are very difficult to break later. The tests are also a farce. In india most of us learn to drive (survive the chaos) after we get our licence.

Do not get too close to the car in front when you are uphill (bridge/ flyover). The guy can roll back if he does not use his hand brake.

Rgds

[agbenny]

Originally Posted by gigy

From my experience
If you are in slow <40 until you are experienced use clutch first and follow with brakes.
If you are experienced enough with the particular car then use both together till you can manage to keep engine running without stalling

If you are in good speed always apply brake first and as you have slowed down enough apply clutch.

In all cases prevent engine stall as successive braking power reduces if car is still in motion and in case you need maneuverability.

Finally the price of brake pads to clutch plates matters most on which to follow.

but in emergency brake first and then clutch as it reduces car speed the fastest.

Thanks for explaining this. I always had this question in my mind, whether I am doing correctly or not. I always do as you explained, and I am happy that I apply the brakes first (on low speeds) and clutch in a second or two later. On high speeds I apply brakes first, and apply clutch when needed to avoid engine stall.

I still have one question:

Assume I need to reduce speed from 100+ to 40 or 50, and if there is enough distance, should I apply brake continuously? I normally press brakes 2-3 times with a gap and do not apply continuously. Is that a good practice?

Finally, I remember when I was learning in a Amby about 15 years ago, the trainer said that I need to reclutch (press the clutch more than once), if the gear shift is not smooth in first gear while starting the car. I see sometimes I had to do this with my Scorpio even now, Is that still applicable to diesel cars?

[sgiitk]

Originally Posted by agbenny

1. Assume I need to reduce speed from 100+ to 40 or 50, and if there is enough distance, should I apply brake continuously? I normally press brakes 2-3 times with a gap and do not apply continuously. Is that a good practice?

2. Finally, I remember when I was learning in a Amby about 15 years ago, the trainer said that I need to reclutch (press the clutch more than once), if the gear shift is not smooth in first gear while starting the car. I see sometimes I had to do this with my Scorpio even now, Is that still applicable to diesel cars?

1. Brake continuously, but do not loack the brakes (assuming you do not have ABS).
2. Double de-clutching is required in cars with no synchromesh (aka crash box). The old Amby (and FIAT) did not have synchromesh on 1st. This has nothing to do with diesel or petrol. This is the reason of many of us to go into first when moving, and use it only as a starting gear.

In the old crash-box cars double de-clutching was required for all gears!

[DWind]

Originally Posted by agbenny

Assume I need to reduce speed from 100+ to 40 or 50, and if there is enough distance, should I apply brake continuously? I normally press brakes 2-3 times with a gap and do not apply continuously. Is that a good practice?

I would advice you to brake continuosly. It is always a good practice because
1. decelerating gently (and accelerating gently as well) increases your mileage.
2. braking continuously gives ample time for the vehicle behind you to reduce their speed and slow down looking at your tail light.

Bear in mind that over doing it can contribute to brake fade as well , for example when you are driving down hill. The right advice here is to drive at speeds where you are always in control of your car (slow down!!)

[sgiitk]

@DWind: The correct gear for a descent is the same as for the ascent. Also, with an AT shift to Low or S in order to get engine braking.

[bblost]

Originally Posted by sgiitk

@DWind: The correct gear for a descent is the same as for the ascent. Also, with an AT shift to Low or S in order to get engine braking.

+1 to both the points.

I use the Clutch when changing gears. Period. The clutch is not meant for deceleration. Maybe for a timed heavy acceleration. But in day to day driving, its has no role in slowing down.

No matter what speed or which gear, I use the brake. A steady downward push. After the car slows enough that the engine rpm and tire rpm are not matched, I downshift. Maybe skip a gear, i.e. got from 5 to 3. But only using the clutch when the gear is being changed.

If I am driving a manual car downhill, I play with the gears to reduce speed.
If its an automatic, then chances are I am in the US and the car is a rental. In which case I keep running between D and 2.

Doing that gear jumping is what allowed me a auto-newbie to drive at the speed limits posted on California-1

YouTube - CA 1 Evening Drive

Without gear jumps, it was very difficult to go fast enough to be at or just about the speedlimit.


But since I don't own an auto nor does anyone in my circle have one, have not bothered to finetune myself

[anilisanil]

Originally Posted by agbenny

Assume I need to reduce speed from 100+ to 40 or 50, and if there is enough distance, should I apply brake continuously? I normally press brakes 2-3 times with a gap and do not apply continuously. Is that a good practice?

The best way to brake is by combination of braking and down shifting.

While you are braking from hundred assuming you have a 5 s gear box, you will be in fifth gear; down shift gradually while braking. so braking intermittently and down shifting as you do that is the correct way, though it depends on how soon you have to stop.

Cheers!!

[longhorn]

Originally Posted by anilisanil

While you are braking from hundred assuming you have a 5 s gear box, you will be in fifth gear; down shift gradually while braking. so braking intermittently and down shifting as you do that is the correct way, though it depends on how soon you have to stop.

Cheers!!

I diasgree. Braking intermittently is a bad idea. Once you start braking, you should not release the brakes and then start braking again. If you have released the brakes,there should be sufficient distance between your car and the vehicle in front of you, for you to come to a halt without touching your brakes again (this is called coasting and requires a few years of good driving experience). Else you should not stop applying the brake till your vehicle has come to a complete halt. It should be a continuous process till the vehicle has come to a halt irrespective of whether you use engine braking or not.

[anilisanil]

Originally Posted by longhorn

I diasgree. Braking intermittently is a bad idea. Once you start braking, you should not release the brakes and then start braking again. If you have released the brakes,there should be sufficient distance between your car and the vehicle in front of you, for you to come to a halt without touching your brakes again (this is called coasting and requires a few years of good driving experience). Else you should not stop applying the brake till your vehicle has come to a complete halt. It should be a continuous process till the vehicle has come to a halt irrespective of whether you use engine braking or not.

I do not mean braking intermittantly in the sense you took it, my bad comprehension. All I want to mean is to alternate between down shifting and braking, and I did mention it depends on the distance on wants to stop. And this guy wants to decelerate from 100-50 but not to stand still. If it is stand still, I completely agree it is braking continuosly!!

Thanks for clarifying me though!!

[Ikonik]

Hi,
I found this thread similar to a doubt I had in mind, so posting it here.

1. No matter which gear you are driving on, the engine is at an RPM > 1500 usually. However, if I move to Neutral and cruise away at low speeds, my engine stays at 800-900 RPM. Does that mean I use lesser fuel while cruising on the Neutral gear than at any other? It does lead to loss of control over the vehicle and the engine, but what happens to the fuel consumption?

2. Does the engine consume more fuel at the instants when the clutch is pressed?

[longhorn]

Originally Posted by Ikonik

Hi,
I found this thread similar to a doubt I had in mind, so posting it here.

1. No matter which gear you are driving on, the engine is at an RPM > 1500 usually. However, if I move to Neutral and cruise away at low speeds, my engine stays at 800-900 RPM. Does that mean I use lesser fuel while cruising on the Neutral gear than at any other? It does lead to loss of control over the vehicle and the engine, but what happens to the fuel consumption?

2. Does the engine consume more fuel at the instants when the clutch is pressed?

1. 900 RPM is what most cars will be doing at idle(neutral). So this is basically your starting point. As you press the accelerator the rpms starts rising from here. In neutral the engine is disconnected from the gearbox hence the rpm goes down to the idle rpm (assuming your foot is off the accelerator). Of course your rpm will rise if you press the accelerator even though you are in neutral. If your vehicle is on the move and you engage a gear from neutral, the rpms rise because the engine is now connected to the gearbox and is powering the movement of your vehicle (which is not the case if in neutral). You will consume lesser fuel while moving in neutral than in any gear because lower the rpm, lesser will be the fuel consumption. However, this is a bad practice and is not advisable, as you will be in much better control of your vehicle while in gear than in neutral.2. The engine consumes more fuel not when the clutch is pressed, but rather when a gear is engaged, i.e. when you shift to a gear from neutral and release the clutch. This is due to the sudden rise in rpm as opposed to a grdual one if accelerating while in gear.

[di1in]

@longhorn Simply engaging a gear while the car is coasting should not induce rapid fuel consumption because even if the rpms climb rapidly for a second or two the actual process taking place is engine braking.

Once the gear is engaged pressing the accelerator would only result in normal fuel consumption related to that acceleration. To make coming out of coasting smoother you could also slightly tap the accelerator while engaging gear.

This method is fuel efficient but dangerous as the sudden engine braking and corresponding decceleration of the car is not accompanied by a lit brake light. So traffic behind you might not be aware that you are braking.

[longhorn]

Originally Posted by di1in

@longhorn Simply engaging a gear while the car is coasting should not induce rapid fuel consumption because even if the rpms climb rapidly for a second or two the actual process taking place is engine braking.

Sudden acceleration/deceleration leads to excessive fuel consumption not to mention the increased wear and tear on your vehicle. No two ways about it. Ever wondered why you always get better FE on the highway than in the city. That's because we are able to maintain a constant speed for a longer period of time on the highway, which is just not possible in city traffic.

Originally Posted by di1in

Once the gear is engaged pressing the accelerator would only result in normal fuel consumption related to that acceleration.

+1 to that provided you are in the correct gear w.r.t your vehicle's speed.

Originally Posted by di1in

This method is fuel efficient but dangerous as the sudden engine braking and corresponding decceleration of the car is not accompanied by a lit brake light. So traffic behind you might not be aware that you are braking.

+1 to that too, which is why I have mentioned in my post that this practice is not advisable.

[GTO]

I reiterate, only an IDIOT will shift into neutral when coasting. Here's an older post:

According to Toyota, shifting to neutral doesn't save any fuel. Most modern cars come with a fuel-cutoff system. Thus, stay in gear so you save fuel & get free engine braking.

"We went in search of an expert opinion on this one. According to Paul Williamsen, the product education manager at Toyota, “All contemporary Toyota and Lexus vehicles (and every other car built since the 1990s that I’ve looked at) can detect the condition when engine revs are higher than idle with a fully closed throttle: Under these conditions, all current to the fuel injectors is stopped, and no fuel is injected.” That means if your foot is off the gas while the car’s in gear, you’re not using any fuel.

C&D linky

And here's another confirmation:

Originally Posted by the_maassk

I can confirm this is true. I have an Aveo U-VA with a ScanGauge II installed. If I take my foot off the A pedal, the fuel to the engine is cut-off (ScanGauge shows 0.0 LHK (liters per hundred kilometers) and the Fuel Loop is open.

[VeluM]

Originally Posted by deetjohn

But then after down shifting, one would need to let go off the clutch for engine braking to occur and then press the clutch pedal again when the speed reduces and the engine is about to knock. However, I am not seeing that in this video.

Engine braking is Only to be used in regular driving situations, and not emergencies.

During an emergency, one's priority and focus will be on braking and avoiding the "obstacle", and trying to figure out when to clutch and de-clutch will do no good.

Also engine braking is only effective when the engine is turning at higher rpms. As the vehicle slows down, the engine will begin to provide motive force, detracting from the overall braking force being applied, which defeats the purpose.

In short, in emergencies - if the car has ABS, stand on both the clutch and brake pedals and concentrate on steering with gentle input to avoid the obstacle.