[coolkurt]

Originally Posted by adi.mariner

I am thinking of buying a pre-owned Civic (previous generation). I was checking Carwale and there were a few clean looking cars with low Odometer readings.

I am in the process of selling my Civic and so is a friend of mine, we bought our cars together. I just happened to check out carwale and quikr etc. The Civics there have surprisingly low odo readings, all between 70-80k kms. Not one 2007 civic over 1 lakh kms! Extremely fishy if you ask me.


If I try to sell a 2007 civic with 215000 kms on the odo, the price quoted on cars 24 is 1.40 lakhs. This is online. Might get a better price when I go in for the checkup.

If I had to sell the same 2007 Civic assuming it had run 70k kms, cars24 claimed 1.5 lakhs. So just about 10k more. I think the algorithm check the year of purchase as well and factors that in , and the fact that it's DL registered.

My Civic is better maintained than most of the Civics on the listings, despite the odo reading. I guess it's hard to find genuine deals nowadays.

[adi.mariner]

Originally Posted by coolkurt

The Civics there have surprisingly low odo readings, all between 70-80k kms. Not one 2007 civic over 1 lakh kms! Extremely fishy if you ask me.

That is exactly the reason I am extremely weary about buying from a Dealer. Not that all of them are crooks; but a few bad ones spoil the name. A low odometer reading for an Individual seller is understood, perhaps change of location of job, retirement, etc. I guess getting the car checked thoroughly is the only solution to this. I wouldn't mind getting a high mileage car if it has been cared for.

[self_driven]

My friend is planning to purchase a used Etios and has, unfortunately, paid a token amount of 20k already.

The car was purchased in October 2016 and has 57k kms on the odometer. As per the seller, the car was used by his son for the first 6 months (who then moved abroad) and he has been using it personally since then.

Now the problem is that as per Toyota records, the car has gone in for service only 3 times in these 57k kms; at 10k kms in January 2017, 22k kms in March 2017 and 52k kms in August 2019.

When asked about the missing services, the seller told that he got the services done from an outside garage and the odometer reading is genuine. But when we look at the records, the car has covered 32k kms from March 2017 to August 2019 (~30 months) and a whopping 5k kms since Aug 2019 (~2 months) which raised our suspicions. If we consider this along with the distance covered in the first 6 months (22k kms), the car would've easily crossed 1.3 lakh kms.

We wouldn't have pursued this so far had the seller told us beforehand about the partial service history. Coming to the car, it looks well cared for (no repaint, even on bumpers) and drives nice and tight. The tyres were replaced at 52k kms soon after the service. There are no problems in the car whatsoever.

Now what do BHPians think? Should my friend give up the token amount and search for another car or take the risk and purchase this one?

[nexus]

How easy / difficult is it to tamper digital odometers of companies like Jeep, VW? Also, what is a possibility of dealers using in stock cars and resetting odos? This particular doubt is for the models which are unsold for 6-12 months. I have an experience where Jeep dealer said that he will get the vehicle (new) to my place to get a go ahead. I was shocked to hear it.

[coolkurt]

Originally Posted by nexus

How easy / difficult is it to tamper digital odometers of companies like Jeep, VW? Also, what is a possibility of dealers using in stock cars and resetting odos? .

To add to this question, is it possible for people to know if a digital odo has been tampered with? ( I do know it's possible to tamper a digital odo)

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by coolkurt

To add to this question, is it possible for people to know if a digital odo has been tampered with? ( I do know it's possible to tamper a digital odo)

No you can't make out if the Odo has been tampered with. It can be done, and quite easily.

Look at the overall condition of the car, including the wear and tear on the carpets, pedals, upholstery, engine bay, underbody etc. As for dealers, that's a laugh. Most of them WILL tamper with the odo especially with diesels (yuck, glad the Sun is setting slowly on oil burner cars). Consider a petrol vehicle because desis tend to run them less courtesy the differential in fuel price. Diesels are almost always high mileage.

Preferably do a one-to-one deal with the owner, look for full service history at an ASC. Owners who say they had the vehicle serviced at a FNG, are well, cheaping out again and frankly it is up to you if you want to take the person at face value or not. Also, road side Mom-Pop dealerships can't be trusted either. Period. **IF** you have to do a 3rd party deal check pre-owned certified cars from ASCs.

[ashkamath]

Originally Posted by self_driven

We wouldn't have pursued this so far had the seller told us beforehand about the partial service history. Coming to the car, it looks well cared for (no repaint, even on bumpers) and drives nice and tight. The tyres were replaced at 52k kms soon after the service. There are no problems in the car whatsoever.

Now what do BHPians think? Should my friend give up the token amount and search for another car or take the risk and purchase this one?

This is similar to my car history. I own a 2004 diesel Tata Indica that's in her 16th year running now (got the RC renewed this year July). The car has done about 1.10 L genuine kms. I am the first owner.
Initially whilst I lived in Bengaluru, I used the car regularly and the car clocked decent mileage in the first five or six years.
Later I relocated to Goa and the car stayed unattended at Bengaluru for a couple of years as my brother went abroad and I had my other car at Goa.
Subsequently I got my Indica to Goa, but use it sparsely. The car goes to service centre once a month for wash and that's it. So it could have added just a hundred kms each year in the last couple of years with monthly running being about 6 kms (to service center for wash and back). I still get it serviced periodically with a local mechanic whom I know well personally.

So for a stranger, it might seem strange that a car clocking normal / regular mileage for the first few years suddenly the mileage drops to a couple of hundred kms every year and hence the doubt of odometer tampering.

The point I am trying to make here is Not every car seller is a fraud and not all odometer are tampered. You said the car ran good ans looks decently maintained. I suggest you go with your gut feeling. The sellers way of dealing with you. Is he sincere, genuine, honest? At least apparently. Does his story hold water? Is there a possibility that he is speaking the truth? Cause he has no other way to vindicate his point.
If your mechanic says the car is mechanically sound without any major issues and visually the car appears to be in good condition, then unless you have some serious misgivings, then you should go ahead with the deal.

I would be deeply hurt, if I were to put my car up to sale and someone doubts my sincerity about the low mileage that the car has clocked ( due to reasons mentioned earlier) and reject it solely on that basis. If all your other checkboxes tick and your gut feeling says to go ahead then you should take the leap of faith.

If your gut feeling says to hold back and be doubtful then you need to inquire further into the history of the car.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by ashkamath

The point I am trying to make here is Not every car seller is a fraud and not all odometer are tampered. You said the car ran good ans looks decently maintained. I suggest you go with your gut feeling. The sellers way of dealing with you. Is he sincere, genuine, honest? At least apparently. Does his story hold water? Is there a possibility that he is speaking the truth? Cause he has no other way to vindicate his point.
If your mechanic says the car is mechanically sound without any major issues and visually the car appears to be in good condition, then unless you have some serious misgivings, then you should go ahead with the deal.

There are different ways to ascertain with at least some level of certainty if the car's odo has been tampered with. There is a pretty detailed thread on buying used cars here: how to buy a used car in india.html (ARTICLE: How to buy a *USED* Car in India)

I would be deeply hurt, if I were to put my car up to sale and someone doubts my sincerity about the low mileage that the car has clocked ( due to reasons mentioned earlier) and reject it solely on that basis. If all your other checkboxes tick and your gut feeling says to go ahead then you should take the leap of faith.

I understand exactly how you feel because my car is very low mileage too give its age. But what backs me up is the service history at the ASC. It is important to keep service history records because the ASC maintains a log of every single repair/replacement that was done since it was delivered. I would recommend any car owner seriously consider maintaining his car at the ASC solely for this reason. While we may arguably get the same level of service at a lower cost at the FNG my assessment and experiences tell me most are not as skilled as company technicians. I hasten to add there are some very good FNGs (I know of them in my city and they specialise in work on high end cars) but those are an exception rather than the rule.

If your gut feeling says to hold back and be doubtful then you need to inquire further into the history of the car.

Gut feel works as does some clear level headed assessment of the car. The best is to buy from a known person for e.g. a friend or family member. Other option is from forum members for e.g. from TBHP. Most of us love and care for our cars way beyond what "ordinary" owners would. I know of some exceptionally well kept cars on this forum including a Maruti 800, a Mitsubishi Cedia among many others.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by self_driven

Now the problem is that as per Toyota records, the car has gone in for service only 3 times in these 57k kms; at 10k kms in January 2017, 22k kms in March 2017 and 52k kms in August 2019.

The tyres were replaced at 52k kms soon after the service.

Now what do BHPians think? Should my friend give up the token amount and search for another car or take the risk and purchase this one?

Tyres are usually a dead giveaway, since the manufacturing date is stamped on each tyre, and it would be safe to assume fitment within 3-6 months of manufacture. Now, question is, how long do Etios tyres last (I'd expect around 30-40k km). If replaced at 52k km, it sounds implausible that the first (OE) set of tyres would have lasted this long. So this may well be the third, or even 4th set, and the car can well have done 100k - 120k km.

But if the car is mechanically and cosmetically absolutely to your satisfaction, buy it. The mileage doesn't matter to such a great extent. If there doesn't appear to be any major expense due, buy the car, use it, and enjoy it for a few years.

In my opinion, 90% of cars in the used car market are clocked (go to OLX or any other online marketplace, select any type of car you want to buy, then use the filters to set odometer reading to 100k km and more - you'll hardly find any car with that high an odo reading).

Originally Posted by R2D2

Owners who say they had the vehicle serviced at a FNG, are well, cheaping out again...

I'd beg to disagree with that, since all my cars have gone to FNGs when out of warranty. Yes, I do save some money (routine service costs for oil change and washing are sometimes exorbitant), but the car gets better work done at my FNG without cutting any corners. Or maybe it's just that I understand cars better than most...

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

I'd beg to disagree with that, since all my cars have gone to FNGs when out of warranty. Yes, I do save some money (routine service costs for oil change and washing are sometimes exorbitant), but the car gets better work done at my FNG without cutting any corners. Or maybe it's just that I understand cars better than most...

Think I mentioned before the advantages of going to an ASC and that there are FNGs who do a good job too. My experience specifically pertains to Toyota, whose cars I have had the pleasure of owning for over 13.5 years. Their technicians and the job done are almost always beyond reproach. Customer feedback about TKM and the after sales on TBHP says it all. If you have built a good rapport with a FNG so be it but I prefer a service history mainly for my own records and to avoid any misunderstandings or awkward questions when that vehicle is sold. And the best part? If ever I am dissatisfied with the work at the ASC one email to TKM and they ensure things are set right to my satisfaction.

As for understanding cars I think most TBHPians are pretty good with their vehicles including..may I humbly submit..yours truly.

[coolkurt]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Think I mentioned before the advantages of going to an ASC and that there are FNGs who do a good job too. My experience specifically pertains to Toyota, whose cars I have had the pleasure of owning for over 13.5 years.

That's because of your experience with Toyota. Their service experience is perfect. They keep the replaced parts in your car, the remaining oil goes in your trunk too. Very professional. Top notch. Can't say the same about some other dealers.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by coolkurt

That's because of your experience with Toyota. Their service experience is perfect. They keep the replaced parts in your car, the remaining oil goes in your trunk too. Very professional. Top notch. Can't say the same about some other dealers.

Toyota's ASCs are by and large very good. What really makes the difference is the attitude, the consistency in the quality of their work and the backup of TKM who come down on errant dealers like a ton of bricks.

It's not just TKM but Maruti as well. And that is going back to the 1990s. And yeah, even (surprise!) Tata, even if their QC isn't up to scratch. My Palio goes to a FNG a practice my father started because we all know what ails FCA in this country. This year and last, the service was done by former FCA and Tata technician who is familiar with the Palio does home visits.

I'm not sure how it is today in the world of Hondas, a world I left 14 years ago when I sold off my OHC type II primarily because of the lousy service and support from the local dealer. So I gather from your statement that many years later they are still the same, i.e lackadaisical in their attitude towards the quality of work and their customer.

Honda or any manufacturer aside, I have put down a partial list of advantages that will accrue should you get a service done from the ASC vs a FNG. I guess each owner has to balance the pros and cons of doing so.

[coolkurt]

Originally Posted by R2D2

TKM who come down on errant dealers like a ton of bricks.

I'm not sure how it is today in the world of Hondas, a world I left 14 years ago when I sold off my OHC type II primarily because of the lousy service and support from the local dealer. So I gather from your statement that many years later they are still the same, i.e lackadaisical in their attitude towards the quality of work and their customer.

That's the problem with Honda. They never really too interest in their customers to the extent of ensuring quality experience at dealerships. I bought my civic at Southend Honda, Mathura Road and recommended many others who bought their cars from them.

But over the years, all I bore was the brunt of the callous attitude of their dealership, theft of parts, and being shortchanged at every service.

Just last week, my FNG guy was replacing a engine coil and showed me the spark plugs. It was the cheap NGK one that you get everywhere. I had gone to Southend 3 years back and they had charged me Rs 4000 for iridium spark plugs. I'm glad they closed down.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by coolkurt

That's the problem with Honda. They never really too interest in their customers to the extent of ensuring quality experience at dealerships. I bought my civic at Southend Honda, Mathura Road and recommended many others who bought their cars from them.

But over the years, all I bore was the brunt of the callous attitude of their dealership, theft of parts, and being shortchanged at every service.

Just last week, my FNG guy was replacing a engine coil and showed me the spark plugs. It was the cheap NGK one that you get everywhere. I had gone to Southend 3 years back and they had charged me Rs 4000 for iridium spark plugs. I'm glad they closed down.

Damn! Stealing parts like the Skoda dealers of old! Not sure how things are today but from feedback on TBHP I think they are better. Some car manufacturers dealerships are known for their lousy ethics and quality of work. I guess some old devils in the industry still continue on the same old path.

But assuming you sell your car what would you do to convince a potential buyer the car's odometer hasn't been tampered with? Not sure how it works in NCR and the North in general.

[coolkurt]

Originally Posted by R2D2

But assuming you sell your car what would you do to convince a potential buyer the car's odometer hasn't been tampered with? Not sure how it works in NCR and the North in general.

Well. It doesn't take much. Most people go for the 'feel' of the car when they take a test drive to ascertain and fall back on their gut feeling. Hardly any one is an auto enthusiast so their knowledge is pretty limited. So honestly, it's still pretty much based on trust.

I usually make a list of all the parts I've got changed recently and all the small niggles that the car has , and hand over the same to the prospective buyer so that he/she knows everything upfront. Most people like the Frank approach.

And I'm more concerned with them transferring the RC in their name, after getting burnt twice ( they buyers didn't get the RC transferred for years and I kept getting traffic notices).