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Hi,
My alto k10vxi(2016) has been acting weird since past few months: 1-It takes 2-3 attempts to start most of the time
2-suddenly dies on me - i stop for a short time like 10 minutes, but then it refuses to re-start, ignition turns alright but otherwise there's no sound or movement.
3-All the dashboard lights, headlights, indicators, horn are normal.
4-no warning lights come on
Battery is only a year old. All the mechanics insisted it(battery)s the culprit though couldn't explain that how come everything is normal then!
Yesterday: mechanic tested with another car's battery And it did not start still! He said it was the ignition issue and 'serviced' it, saying that if the problem persists then we'l get it replaced. However, it didn't seem to help - car took 2attempts to start and Battery voltage was lower than normal. He said it will recharge as you drive and it did But thats obviously not the solution, is it?I shall be extremel grateful for any help.

I had posted in the past in this thread about my car's starting / stalling troubles. The troubles started in July-2022. All 4 spark plugs were changed and fuel-pump was replaced in Aug-Sep 2022. After this, there were no problems until June-2023.

On 25th June 2023, the car suddenly stops in moving traffic at Old Airport Road, Domlur. Odo was 71984 km. Sent family away by Uber. Disconnected and reconnected the battery again after 15 minutes. Car starts and I drive to Basavanagudi. Again car stops in moving traffic in Lalbagh road. Same 15 minutes battery exercise and it started again. Finally I reach destination at Basavanagudi & disconnect the battery. After 3 hours, battery reconnected, car does not start at all. I give up after several attempts including fuse checks.

This video was taken on cold cranking the next morning:

https://youtu.be/cBFp3agMmC4


I then swap the mini-relay for ignition with another similar specced relay in the engine bay fuse box. Voila! She fires up on first try and I drive directly to TASS Kropex Koramangala. I replace the faulty mini-relay with a new one. Problem resolved (for now). Refer to Post #850 in this thread for complete details.


Since then, I have one of the two scenario happen (several times):

1. In slow moving, crawling traffic, the engine dies off. Immediate cranking does not help. Move over the car to the side of the road. Wait for 10-15 minutes. Sometimes, disconnecting the -ve terminal of the battery and waiting for 15-30 minutes helps. After all this, the car sometimes started again on cranking. Sometimes, it had to be towed away to service center.

2. Occasionally, during cold starts in the morning, the engine cranks with higher than usual revs (> 2500 rpm) and then slowly or immediately dies off.


This happened on 27th December at Chennai. Engine was cold. First crank of the morning. Odo was 77540 km. I ask service center to change the coolant temperature sensor for my peace of mind since I suspect that the engine is overheating but sensor is feeding lower temp data to ECU and instrument cluster (refer to posts #861 & 862 in this thread).

https://youtu.be/vzvp4UBKU1g


This happened on 21st January 2024, at Indiranagar Bangalore. Engine was started after overnight halt. Odo was 77980 km.

https://youtu.be/tmivO7F3jcY

22nd January 2024: I went to Service Center and explained the problems to Service Manager. Asked them to also do the annual service along with breakdown diagnosis. Fuel pump module was once again found to be the culprit. Fuel pump had to be ordered since it was not in stock. This is the 3rd replacement is less than 8 years, the last one lasted less than 18 months. I was not happy with its quality and lifespan. I informed the General Manager and Regional Customer Service Manager my disappointment with the repeated failure of fuel pump and the turnaround time to replace it.

31st January 2024: Car was delivered to me after fuel pump replacement and annual service. Total bill Rs.19,222. I drove home in the evening traffic. I was 1 km from my home when the car again stopped in a narrow road. Traffic piled up in no time. After repeated attempts, the car started and reached home without further drama.

1st February 2024: In the morning, I try cold starting the car in my residential parking space. Vehicle refused to start even after multiple attempts. Odo was 78000 km.

https://youtu.be/AkSoazneSK8

I call Authorized service center (ASC) stating my situation and my dissatisfaction with their resolution. I take videos of the instrument cluster and share it with them as well as Regional Customer Service Manager. ASC sends a technician home the same afternoon. He is also unsucessful in starting the car. His diagnosis: bad spark plugs and HT cables. He says he will return with them in few days time.

After several reminders, phone calls etc, they finally sends someone home on 7th February 2024. Senion Technician / Supervisor checked the spark plugs first. All 4 spark plugs found to be bad (these were about 18 months old). Replaced them with 4 new ones. Tried starting the car, and it still seemed to be misfiring. Now all 4 HT cables were replaced. Car started now but the idling was not smooth. The Supervisor drove the vehicle slowly to service center located 10 km away.

10th February 2024: I visit service center to get an update. They inform me that during test drive, the engine seems to have died after about 20-25km of driving. Now they suspect the ignition coil. I ask them to replace it as well.

15th February 2024: I visit service center to get an update. They have installed the new ignition coil. But the problem persists. Now I'm told that there is an error on scanning 'Fuel injector 4 is faulty'. Now they plan to remove the fuel tank and clean it. They also plan to clean the fuel lines, fuel filter etc. They also suspect Lambda/Oxygen sensor and Knock sensor.


Today: I'm not sure if ASC has found the root cause of all these problems. They seem to do trial-and-error approach.

My query is: Can the above symptoms be due to either bad spark plugs, HT cables or ignition coil or Lambda sensor? Are the service center folks missing something obvious? Are the two problems (engine dying in crawling traffic / overheating and cold-start problem) due to same issue or completely unrelated 2 different issues?

Certainly bad spark plugs, HT or coils, not the Lambda sensor., However, all those components can be checked, visually inspected and also measured!

I would also check then distributor cap for crackers and the rotor, make sure it's clean and the contact on the inside of then distributor cap too. Check for burn marks. Takes less than a couple of minutes.

However, My first idea would be a crank and or cam shaft sensor going bad. That would also explain the problems with the engine dying in the heat and cold start problems.

Although in theory a crank/camshaftnsensor works properly or it does not, in practice there is a very grey area where engine exhibit these kind of symptoms. When they become warmmthey become even more temperamental.

Some cars/engines are more susceptible to it than others. I always carry a spare one in both my Alfa Spider as well as my Jeep Cherokee.

You might get an error code, but more often than not, nothing shows in the scanner. It is just one of those things that comes from experience.

It is one of the few problems that can't be measured, it is a case of replace and see if it solved the problem!

Good luck, let us know what they find.

Jeroen

If the car cranks, then battery is fine. If it does not then check the starter relay and the condition of the starter motor. I suspect one of these. Any good FNG electrical shop will be able to check it.

Another cause can the the cable running from battery to the starter. At times slightly loose connection will exibit these symptoms. To check first try moving the battery lug by twisting or shaking the cable. Do the same at the starter end. Then if it is tight, check the connection between the cable and the lug. I once had a loose cable-to-lug connection that exhibited these sumptoms.

The car when it idles, has a very lopey idle! I would suggest, while the spark plugs, the plug wires and the other components have been changed and checked, please have your IACV and engine checked for vacuum leaks. The way your idle was hunting, normally is sign of a vacuum leak or a faulty/clogged IACV.

Also, what happens when you hold throttle and try starting the car? Does it start?

An update to my previous post.
Engine wiring harness was found to be the culprit. It was very difficult to diagnose since malfunction/ check engine lamp came up very rarely.
Harness was changed and technicians took a couple of days for long road tests to observe the car. Car was delivered to me today.
I'll be driving around with a keen eye on the rpm and other parameters in the instrument cluster.
Really hope that the problem is resolved for good.

Thanks to several BHPians for all your help and suggestions.

Mine is a 2013 Hyundai Verna CRDi SX. I'm looking for an ECM repair contact. Here's the background of the issues.

3 weeks ago, I observed the engine light on the console. It was about the same time that I started noticing loss of acceleration. It was so bad that I had to downshift to 1st gear to get the car moving on a flat surface. Observed noticeable vibrations too. No problem with engine start/stop. I took the vehicle to HASS. They diagnosed the issue to be P0201 (fuel injector issue). As part of the diagnosis, they first checked for rat bites - none. Swapped the fuel injector - the error on the console wouldn't go away. They suspect it to be an ECM issue and said they'll try to swap the ECM and see if the error goes away. They couldn't source the ECM so suggested me to go with ECM repair with a known contact of theirs. HASS takes no liability of the work. The guy who does the repair is probably an independent IC repair person. I spoke to him and he was quoting 18K and brought it down to 12K final.

I want to know 2 things:
Could this really be an ECM issue or is there a scam at play b/w the guy and HASS.
Is 12K for the repair job worth it, without a guarantee of the issue not occurring in the future?


The vehicle has been in the shed of the ASS for more than a week now due to heavy vehicle load.

I scanned through the forum for any ECM repair contacts but no success, as either they stopped repairing or they're not reachable.

ECM replacement is a costly affair. I was quoted 1.2L. I don't intend to keep the vehicle for long so it doesn't make sense to go for the replacement.

Any help appreciated in this regard. TIA

UPDATE:

I changed the service centre to Blue Hyundai on Mysore road, Bangalore for the periodic 10000Kms service and stressed upon this issue and asked them to find the root cause. I had to keep the vehicle for 3 days in service centre as there was a part to be arrived. The technician daily tried to start the car and fortunately on 3rd day it didn't start. Scanning pointed out that there is indeed malfunction of CKP sensor. Replaced it and car is starting fine since 2 weeks now. Sincerely hope the problem is solved permanently. Don't want the ECM to be kaput! It will be a costly affair, if so. :confused:

My sincerest thanks to SS-Traveller for starting this wonderful thread & kudos to him, Jeroen & countless others for sharing a wealth of information on it!
I own a Ford Fiesta 1.6L ZXI petrol 2009 which has done 46,000 kilometres & given me immense driving please during the nearly 15 years that I have had it.
A few weeks ago the car suddenly stalled without warning & when I tried to re-start it I found I was in a no click - no crank - no start situation. I managed to cruise to the side of the road. I tried to re-start the car several times but each time it was the same no click - no crank - no start. There seemed to be too many lights on in the instrument cluster & the numerals in the distance to empty meter, trip meter & odometer had been replaced by a series of dashes like this _ _ _ _
I tried to lower the power windows but found that they wouldn't respond. I was, however, able to switch on the hazard lights & after conferring with the Ford dealer's workshop called for a towing vehicle.
While waiting for the towing vehicle to arrive, I tried to re-start the car after about 10 minutes. This time the normal number of lights came on in the instrument cluster, the numerals also appeared in the various meters as usual (intead of the dashes) & the car started immediately. Since the Ford workshop wasn't too far away I cancelled the towing vehicle & started driving towards the workshop.
The engine was behaving absolutely normally, there was no judder, misfire or power loss whatsoever. However, after half a kilometre, the car again stalled.
The same sequence of events kept recurring except that the car started stalling after travelling shorter distances & re-starting after longer waiting periods. Keeping the bonnet open seemed to slightly expedite the re-starts or it may have been just my imagination. In the end I had to again ask for the towing vehicle.
When I reached the workshop & the towing vehicle was detached from the car, I could again start it easily & it drove smoothly into the workshop.
The workshop kept the car for 10 days & the periodic feedback I got (not necessarily in chronological order) on the phone was this.
1. OBD Scanner says communication error
2. The car is knocking badly
3. 2 spark plugs were black - all spark plugs replaced
4. Oxygen sensor replaced
5. Fuel tank cleaned, fuel pump serviced & tested for fuel pressure
6. ECM reset
7. Long test drive done by technical advisor & vehicle didn't stall
I got back the vehicle after that & knock on wood, the stalling hasn't recurred.
But 2-3 days after getting it back, suddenly the airconditioner wouldn't switch on. The blower motor was working fine. The airconditioner was working fine till an hour earlier. The workshop asked me to bring the car over but on the way I tried switching on the airconditioner again & it came on & hasn't given any problems since.
I have been driving the car around now for a couple of weeks & my observations are that it seems to be running a little leaner than before & that once in a while needs a slightly longer crank to start.
The full tank to full tank average seems to have improved by about 0.5 kmpl.
I am wondering whether I should just keep driving or investigate further.
I was thinking of getting the 6 month old battery checked up & the starter serviced. I have also bought an OBD scanner from Amazon but not hooked it up as yet.
Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

A little background.
About 6 months ago the AC evaporator was replaced at the same Ford dealer's workshop & the car started cooling very much more efficiently after that. The dashboard had to be removed & refitted for this job. After that I find that when I play a CD in the music system it skips a lot. This never happened earlier. I also have an USB charger plugged into the cigarette lighter. Earlier a tiny blue LED in the USB charger would light up whenever the car engine was on but these days it is sometimes on & sometimes off. The device constantly attached to the USB charger (a bluetooth adaptor) seems to be working fine though. For several months now, when I shut the driver's side door, the latch which is used to open the door from inside the car remains depressed. I have told the workshop about these problems but they don't seem to want to do anything about them. In all probability these problems don't have any connection with the stalling & starting problems I faced but I thought I should mention them all the same.
Sorry for the long posts & once again many thanks in advance for you advice.

These sort of random errors can be very difficult to trace. Checking with an OBD scanner might reveal some stored codes. But make sure your scanner can read the specific Ford codes and not just the generic codes.

A couple of thoughts. With random problems on a modern car it is always a good idea to double check the state of the battery, the alternator and all electrical connection. Corrosion of terminals causes a voltage drop across such a connection. Meaning there are less volts to go the electronics. Car electronics can become wonky and might behave very erratic when the voltage drops too much.

So as a bear minimum check also the battery connections, undo them and clean them. Check if possible as many earth straps as well. A broken or corroded earth strap and or earth connection can cause the same erratic problems.

You mentioned that you had the dashboard out for the AC evaporator. That is a big job and sometimes a connector might not be put back correctly, a wire could have gotten pinched, chaffed and so on. Very difficult to trace. If you do get OBD error codes that suggest certain sensors or components are faulty you might want to keep in mind that it could be the wiring under the dashboard being the actual problem.

For now, as everything seems to working I would still check the battery and the battery terminal. Takes just a few minutes. You need to find somebody that can do a proper battery test, not just measure the battery voltage.

Good,luck

Jeroen

Thanks a ton for your advice, Jeroen!
I will get the battery checked today itself.
Have a great day!

As advised take the battery cables (the thick ones) out. Clean the terminals and the connector. Also check if the battery cable is tightly fitted in the connector. Mostly a loose cable in the connector will give intermittent "battery out" problems.

Just got the Ford branded battery checked up at the Amaron service centre. They said it was fine & only added a little distilled water to the cells.

My car is having a strange problem. Two days back, while going to office the car won't start. The engine would crank but won't start. When I returned from office, the car started fine.

Today however the same problem occurred. Engine cranked but wont start. I went out and when I came back after 2 hours, the engine started normally. Took to mechanic but he said while starting normally its difficult to diagnose. He will check when the problem re-occurs. I had replaced car key sensors two months back for the same problem.

What could be the reason. Its a Swift Dzire 2014 model car