[A.G.The Rambler]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

If the cable is fine, a hard clutch is commonly due to the pressure plate. Was the pressure plate replaced with an OE plate at the last clutch overhaul? Non-OE plates tend to become hard more quickly than OE ones.

I drive my Manza and have just crossed the 30000 kms mark. I get a slight crank while engaging 1st and reverse gear and the clutch has become a bit stiffer than earlier and i find the car pull has become a bit less. I got it checked and the TASS guys says i don't need to change the clutch kit now, but i am not very convinced. Only reason i don't want to take a chance as next month i might be driving to the Himalaya's.

SS, please give me some tips, like how and what to check if my clutch is in shape or not as i don't want to take a chance with worn out clutches in the Himalayas.

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by A.G.The Rambler

...TASS guys says i don't need to change the clutch kit now, but i am not very convinced. Only reason i don't want to take a chance as next month i might be driving to the Himalaya's.
SS, please give me some tips, like how and what to check if my clutch is in shape or not...

You might want to take a look at these threads, where there are already plenty of tips about how to go about checking whether your clutch is okay or not.

1. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-identify.html

2. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...e-damaged.html

3. http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techni...-overhaul.html

The bottomline when it comes to determining clutch health, is to have a very experienced mechanic/driver drive your car and test it. 30k km may be too early for a clutch change according to a lot of people, but given that I know what kind of traffic you face in Kolkata, premature wear cannot be ruled out. I wouldn't like to comment about whether your car needs a clutch change, unless I actually drive your car.

Since you do report a harder pedal, and a "hard clutch" is usually covered under warranty and replaced, it would be worth your while to complain of a hard clutch to your TASS (not ask them for their opinion! ) and ask for a pressure place replacement under warranty. While the process happens, you can simply pay for and ask that your friction plate be also replaced at the same time. So you get a new clutch for the cost of just the friction plate (since you are not charged for labour and the pressure plate).

[Jeroen]

Here's a very simple test to verify your clutch:

Put the car in gear but keep the clutch down
Push your brake with the ball of your feet and use your heel to push down on the accelerator pedal and let the revs climb to approx 4000rpm.

Then let the clutch out, whilst maintaining the brake pressure and the revs.
If the engine stalls immediately your clutch will be fine. If it doesn't your clutch needs replacing and will start slipping soon.

Sounds a bit brutal, but it really doesn't hurt anything at all.
Truth is that even the most experience car mechanic can't tell what the condition of the clutch is. He can drive around and get feel for the condition of the pressure plate and the bearing but not the clutch plate thickness (he might do the test I described above). Clutch plates normally wear very evenly and as long as the pressure plate and bearing are fine, you won't be the wiser or what the thickness of the clutch itself is. Everything works fine until it starts slipping.
And as per Sod's law that will always be at particular moment where you can't afford it; e.g. you have to take your wife to hospital because she's gone in labor. Your promised to pick up your mother in law etc. Not a good moment for clutches to start slipping!

Even with the test described above, you might find your engine stalls and you're ok. But you don't know for how many more miles it will be fine. If it does pass the test you should be good for a few thousand more miles, but anything beyond that is anybodies guess.

Surprisingly, there are a number of cars where it is perfectly simple to actually measure the thickness of the clutch plate. Indirectly of course, but you can actually measure it. Without having to remove the gearbox. Even more surprisingly is that there are very few official car mechanics aware of this. Sometimes it requires a special little tool. So its worth checking the official car manufacturers workshop manual.

Jeroen

[A.G.The Rambler]

Originally Posted by SS-Traveller

.. when it comes to determining clutch health, is to have a very experienced mechanic/driver drive your car and test it. 30k km may be too early for a clutch change according to a lot of people, but given that I know what kind of traffic you face in Kolkata, premature wear cannot be ruled out. I wouldn't like to comment about whether your car needs a clutch change, unless I actually drive your car.

Since you do report a harder pedal, and a "hard clutch" is usually covered under warranty and replaced, it would be worth your while to complain of a hard clutch to your TASS (not ask them for their opinion! ) and ask for a pressure place replacement under warranty. While the process happens, you can simply pay for and ask that your friction plate be also replaced at the same time. So you get a new clutch for the cost of just the friction plate (since you are not charged for labour and the pressure plate).

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Here's a very simple test to verify your clutch:

Put the car in gear but keep the clutch down
Push your brake with the ball of your feet and use your heel to push down on the accelerator pedal and let the revs climb to approx 4000rpm.

Then let the clutch out, whilst maintaining the brake pressure and the revs.
If the engine stalls immediately your clutch will be fine. If it doesn't your clutch needs replacing and will start slipping soon.

Sounds a bit brutal, but it really doesn't hurt anything at all.
Truth is that even the most experience car mechanic can't tell what the condition of the clutch is. He can drive around and get feel for the condition of the pressure plate and the bearing but not the clutch plate thickness (he might do the test I described above). Clutch plates normally wear very evenly and as long as the pressure plate and bearing are fine, you won't be the wiser or what the thickness of the clutch itself is. Everything works fine until it starts slipping.
And as per Sod's law that will always be at particular moment where you can't afford it; e.g. you have to take your wife to hospital because she's gone in labor. Your promised to pick up your mother in law etc. Not a good moment for clutches to start slipping!

Even with the test described above, you might find your engine stalls and you're ok. But you don't know for how many more miles it will be fine. If it does pass the test you should be good for a few thousand more miles, but anything beyond that is anybodies guess.

Surprisingly, there are a number of cars where it is perfectly simple to actually measure the thickness of the clutch plate. Indirectly of course, but you can actually measure it. Without having to remove the gearbox. Even more surprisingly is that there are very few official car mechanics aware of this. Sometimes it requires a special little tool. So its worth checking the official car manufacturers workshop manual.

Jeroen

Thanks SS and Jeroen.

I had a talk with the TASS guys. He says hard clutch is due to burnt plates and if at all it needs to be changed, the full clutch kit needs to be changed and after opening it has to be changed totally. He says generally the pressure plates gets burnt, and in case of that it would not be under warranty and has to be paid by me. But then what are the friction plates? Can you please help me in understanding what components this clutch kit consists of and what all needs to changed and looked into while checking if the plates are burnt or not?

[SS-Traveller]

Originally Posted by A.G.The Rambler

He says generally the pressure plates gets burnt, and in case of that it would not be under warranty and has to be paid by me. But then what are the friction plates? Can you please help me in understanding what components this clutch kit consists of and what all needs to changed and looked into while checking if the plates are burnt or not?

The picture above is that of a friction plate (aka the driven plate), and the one below is that of a pressure plate.

The diagram below shows how they fit in relation to each other.

The friction plate wears out. The fingers (radially arranged metal strips) you see on the pressure plate can harden, resulting in a hard pedal. Hard pedal is not a wear-related issue, and should be covered under warranty (if your warranty is valid).

[SirAlec]

here is a simple catch!! clutch will last about 50k kms easily if used properly.

But when it is opened for replacement. It will take atleast 3 hours. and cost you upward of Rs.800.

So replacing of clutch, flywheel, clutch release bearing makes sense as it will save time and money labour.

[abhijitl]

Hi,
As mentioned earlier in this post, you can face the flywheel if face is worn out. But it should be faced on a proper flywheel grinding machine, where mount of the flywheel is perfectly true.

[SirAlec]

Originally Posted by abhijitl

Hi,
As mentioned earlier in this post, you can face the flywheel if face is worn out. But it should be faced on a proper flywheel grinding machine, where mount of the flywheel is perfectly true.

brother! why do you ever need to face the flywheel. i thing you are getting confused with pressure plate. only things that worn out in flywheel are a tiny bearing and groves/teeth that starter motor struck with to crank the engine.

if you are taking about facing pressure plate on lathe. its hardly a no-job. as both pressure plate and clutch comes as a single package.

[dipen]

The flywheel, pressure plate, clutch plate and bearings all come as a separate part.
Most A.S.S would call for replacing all while the remaining few would leave the flywheel.

But every mechanic in the known will always ask for replacing pressure plate, clutch and the bearing and the cost of all these would be in the range for 4500 including labor for the Alto to about 12000 for 10 lakh sedans excluding flywheel.

There is also something like gear lever - also refereed as throwout lever (along with the spring which is not sold separately) that may have to be inspected which can cost another 2000 or similar.

Some rough pricing numbers for common hatch backs
Clutch plate : 1200 - 2000
Pressure plate : 1500 - 2500
Bearing : 1000 - 2000
S M Flywheel : 2000 - 4000
Gear lever : 1200 - 2000
Misc : 500 - 1000 (parts like oil rubber seals etc that will be charged always)

Labor : 1400 - 2000

Most reputed FNG are as expensive, sometimes more expensive than authorized service centers.

Also always inquire part costs when doing work with FNGs. They are sometimes quote more than authorized service centers.

[CrankShaft05]

Hi folks,

I have a Chevy Optra Magnum 2.0 diesel and have driven it for 85k KM. At 80k KM I have changed the entire clutch box as the plates have worn out and I was stranded in the middle of nowhere near Bangalore. During the clutch box replacement, the service advisor at Trident Chevy stated that the fly wheel is 70% worn out and I should change that as well, but due to the heavy cost involved in changing the fly wheel I have asked them to take a pass at that moment.
Now after about 5k KM, I get rattling sound while accelerating which I feel is from the fly wheel. The Chevy authorised service center quoted around 40k while I replaced the clutch box. Can somebody help me how much would the fly wheel cost off market and is it reliable to get the work from a multi brand car service Center? Also, please suggest if there a service Center around Manikonda, Gachibowli and Madhapur area who can do a good job in this area.

Thanks in advance for your help.

Regards
Crankshaft

[itwasntme]

Originally Posted by CrankShaft05

The Chevy authorised service center quoted around 40k while I replaced the clutch box. Can somebody help me how much would the fly wheel cost off market and is it reliable to get the work from a multi brand car service Center?

Please get the part number from Chevy and check offline and online for the same. It should be available especially given the mess they have now been created.

You took a chance with the original clutch till 85k. My 2011 Cruze needed a change at 40k due to BLR traffic; this costed 27k in 2014. The flywheel was also changed but was covered under warranty as they noticed some unusual grooves. I believe the cost for the same was 20k then.

My Cruze is now at 99.5k km :-)

Keep us in the loop!

[CrankShaft05]

Originally Posted by itwasntme

Please get the part number from Chevy and check offline and online for the same. It should be available especially given the mess they have now been created.

You took a chance with the original clutch till 85k. My 2011 Cruze needed a change at 40k due to BLR traffic; this costed 27k in 2014. The flywheel was also changed but was covered under warranty as they noticed some unusual grooves. I believe the cost for the same was 20k then.

My Cruze is now at 99.5k km :-)

Keep us in the loop!

Thank you for the information! I will check the part number and then the cost of it online. Will keep you posted bro. And congratulations for nearing the 1L KM

[sami316]

Originally Posted by CrankShaft05

Thank you for the information! I will check the part number and then the cost of it online. Will keep you posted bro. And congratulations for nearing the 1L KM

Hi Crankshaft05, were you able to replace the same. If yes, then please do update with the cost and your experience.

[CrankShaft05]

Originally Posted by sami316

Hi Crankshaft05, were you able to replace the same. If yes, then please do update with the cost and your experience.

I got hold of a mechanic from Chevy authorized service center and got the flywheel changed and it costed me 20k. At a later point I got my suspension changed as well from him and the price was very cheap compared to authorized service center or even third party service stations. He has done the job at one of his friend's garage around one and half year ago and its working fine as of date. He even does the oil change and any repairs for my Optra for a very reasonable price.

BTW, I just completed 1 Lakh KM in my Optra

[sandeep.menon]

When replacing the clutch assembly, replacing the flywheel is necessary if it has signs of wear (scoring marks). In other words, replacing the flywheel is a 'condition based replacement', and does not always have to be replaced together with the clutch assembly.

In case your car uses a dual mass flywheel, one needs to check play - laterally as well as within the spring loaded masses (individual flywheels connected to each other inside the flywheel housing). In case of excessive play, the dual mass flywheel must be replaced. DMF's will also give you telltale signs of wear, primarily noises, which an expert can differentiate from other noises heard during engine idling.

If a worn out flywheel is installed back together with a new clutch assembly, the vehicle will almost always have shuddering / noise issues within 5000 kms of usage.

One must consider labor costs involved in reopening the assembly to replace the flywheel, and there's a good chance of the new clutch assembly starting to get damaged due to the worn out flywheel, if the flywheel is not replaced in spite of wear, when replacing the clutch assembly.