How important is to understand the behaviour of ur car?

mclaren1885 · 19th July 2006, 21:10

Often i have come across instances where people keep driving at break neck speeds without having much knowledge about how their cars would respond to certain situations ..

For eg :

1. Lack of back end grip due to weight transfer under heavy braking ..

2. The importance of downshifting instead of sitting on the breaks ..

3. The way ur car handles around corners and bends at high speeds ..

4. Also there always seems to be a misunderstanding that RACING Lines are DANGEROUS .. What are racing lines ??
Arent they the safest yet the quickest way to get around a corner ?? How ??
Well if u go from outside to outside u loose speed , time et all and also could end up loosing the grip and oversteer badly (mostly incase of FWDs).. I have tried this on track to see the difference and the effects of running wide could be ghastly .. Specially to those who at times max out their speedos on winding public roads without taking the proper lines (read on roads with dividers in btwn such that ther is no oncoming traffic barring there are no vehicles around as well).. This could lead to eminent dangers of hitting the dividers and sommersolting on running wide ..

Also often i have seen many people doing a 3 digit speed , break hard on seeing a curve all the way until they get out .. Doesnt this lead to oversteer ?? And dangerous ??

5. Use of opposite lock in certain drastic conditions and how it works ..

6. Use of handbreaks in emergencies to avoid head on collisions .. Its better to go sideways into a barrier than head on .. If done right atleast saves u the engine

..

7. Importance of not turning ur steering wheel when the wheels are locked due to heavy braking .. This sudden change in steering inputs could make u loose control of the car completely ..

8. Importance of not spinning ur wheels to get good times either at drag launches or on tracks ..

How important is it for u to know how ur car handles ?? What factor could it play in ensuring u better control over ur car ??

PS : I have learnt quite a lot of these technicalities by going to track days and can see that they play a major role in driving either on city or highways too .. How much do u think it helps ??

drifter · 19th July 2006, 21:19

I agree with almost everything here...
apart from going sideways into an accident...head on would always be safer than a side impact. Side impact may be prefrable if the speeds are low and provided if you hit on the side you arent sitting at. The car is not as strong on the sides as much as it is in the front or back. There simply isnt enough crush zone so to say, to absorb the impact.

And another thing...trying to take racing lines anywhere on public highways is like looking for trouble. You can never be too careful on our roads.
And also it pays to know the limits of your car. Can be a lifesaver.
So in other words, track days will teach you the limits of your car in a relatively safer environment.

Drifter

theEnd · 19th July 2006, 21:24

Very good tips. I'd just disagree with one point.

Quote:

6. Use of handbreaks in emergencies to avoid head on collisions .. Its better to go sideways into a barrier than head on .. If done right atleast saves u the engine ..

Cars tend to have a lot more protection in front (crumple zones, airbags) than on the side where there's usually just a steel bar inside a 6 inch thick door. Think I'd rather save my head than the engine.

I also remember seeing this bit on Top Gear (BBC) where they said that racing lines weren't optimal on the road because of visibility issues. It makes sense because if you're on a two way road and come screaming past the apex your exit would take you all the way to the other side of the road in no time at all, and into the path of an oncoming car.

theEnd · 19th July 2006, 21:26

you beat me to it Drifter... good points!

what's the scope for track days here in India?

mclaren1885 · 19th July 2006, 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by drifter

I agree with almost everything here...
apart from going sideways into an accident...head on would always be safer than a side impact (provided if you hit on the side you arent sitting at).

And another thing...trying to take racing lines anywhere on public highways i think is like looking for trouble. You can never be too careful on our roads.
And also it pays to know the limits of your car.

Drifter

Agree completely , if u can manage to go sideways such that the impact is nowhere near ur sitting side it should be safe .. Most often than not see if u can get ur dicky to bear the impact .. Even repairs are cheaper .. Albeit this is done at low speeds of not more than 60 in unavoidable circumstances ..

Also agreed that racing lines arent to be tried with traffic around or on public roads , best bet isto break before the curve if its sharp in a straight line , downshift if necessary and accelerate into the corner than brake the whole way which is dangerous .. Also i have seen guys go from outside to outside on a curve and get that inch closer to hitting the divider .. By racing line i meant having the conscious to hit the centre or left corner of the road instead of brazing close to the side of the divider throughout the curve .. Hope thats clears it out .. I repeat i didnt mean exact RACING LINES , but didnt quite know how to express the idea of not taking the entire curve from the outside lane .. Could anyone put it across in a more simpler way ??

drifter · 19th July 2006, 21:29

I understand what you meant when you talked about racing lines...

Yup its a good practice to finish all your braking before arriving at the corner.

EDIT: @theEnd: As of now, its only the boys down south who are able to enjoy track days due to the lack of facilities elsewhere in India.
EDIT2: @mclaren: I guess you mean to say that its better to stay on the inside of the curve and try not to understeer into a divider.

Drifter

mclaren1885 · 19th July 2006, 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by theEnd

what's the scope for track days here in India?

Well atleast for most of us who have done track days , its worth every penny and we wouldnt mind going back to it again and again .. Actually all of us are awaiting for the next one eagerly .. Wish our friends from bombay and pune could make it to .. Im sure revvhead will agree with the fun factor .. Khaadu the drift king ought to make it once too ..

Well , personally these track days have benefitted me a lot .. Once it thus happened that my entire family was out on a drive to tirupathi .. As we passed the toll gate dad proceeded further to overtake a zen which was on the centre lane .. We were on the right lane .. Doing speeds of about 120 with no other vehicle in sight for the next 1km atleast .. As he was about to overtake the zen guy cut us off (for no reasom) and came that close to hitting the car .. In trying to avoid the hitting dad braked hard and in trying to see how close the zen got to the baleno , in shock let go of the steering .. Car started to fish tail wildly as his hands were off the steering and he was braking inches from the divider .. Could have turned out to be very fatal ... Without much thinking i immediately grabbed hold of the steering from the passengers seat , kept moving it trying to get the car in a straight line while frantically shouting at dad to " POWER UP dad POWER UP , DONT BRAKE" .. Luckily he heard it and soon the car came back under control .. He then came to a halt and let me drive .. It all happened in a split second.. Since then he never hesitates to let me drive on the highways .. And mom prefers me driving all the time , though im sure nitrous and islero wouldnt want

..

I would attribute this solely to v1p3r and psycho who right from day one made it a point to make me understand the behviour of FWD's and for track day to give me oppurtunity to figure out how the theory worked in real life and also help me find the limits of my car ... Kudos to all of them

..

Shan2nu · 19th July 2006, 23:22

Quote:

Also there always seems to be a misunderstanding that RACING Lines are DANGEROUS .. What are racing lines ??

On public roads, they most definately are dangerous.

I'd say, i've learnt more about racing and car behavior through games like NFS5 and GT4.

Prior to my first track day, i had no track experience, what so ever. But, it didn't seem to affect me as much as it did to a few others.

I don't remember a single instance where i might have taken the car off track or caused it to lose control and it's not like i wasn't pushing it. Had it not been for NFS5, i'd probably have flown off on the very first corner. Trust me, never take racing games casually coz theres always something you could learn from them.

It's impossible to know for sure, how your car would behave under certain conditions bcoz vehicle behavior is never consistant. Factors like road surface, tyre wear, brake bite/fade, load etc could change everything.

It's vital to know your cars behavior but, it's even more important that you learn to improvise on your inputs, when needed.

Shan2nu

.anshuman · 19th July 2006, 23:28

I voted for "it plays a vital role" because i think knowing your car is very important if you like to push your cars to their limits as sometimes we expect them to deliver too much far beyond their limits.
another things that are as important-
1.knowing your own limits
2.knowing the road,some cars give enough feedback but others are incapable of delivering the same.

mclaren1885 · 19th July 2006, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shan2nu

It's impossible to know for sure, how your car would behave under certain conditions bcoz vehicle behavior is never consistant. Factors like road surface, tyre wear, brake bite/fade, load etc could change everything.

It's vital to know your cars behavior but, it's even more important that you learn to improvise on your inputs, when needed.

Shan2nu

Well said .. But to know the difference in factors like road surface , tyre wear etc make u still need to know the basics dont u ??

Like u said its vital to adjust according to the circumstances ... That is a sign of a good driver ..

F50 · 19th July 2006, 23:41

It is very important to know the limits but advisable to be below your limits on public roads. Limits are explored on tracks and public roads are not tracks.
Because on public roads not only us but even others are in danger.

mclaren1885 · 19th July 2006, 23:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by F 50

It is very important to know the limits but advisable to be below your limits on public roads. Limits are explored on tracks and public roads are not tracks.
Because on public roads not only us but even others are in danger.

Let me give it another shot ..

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

I repeat i didnt mean exact RACING LINES , but didnt quite know how to express the idea of not taking the entire curve from the outside lane .. Could anyone put it across in a more simpler way ??

Quote:

Originally Posted by drifter

Yup its a good practice to finish all your braking before arriving at the corner.

EDIT2: @mclaren: I guess you mean to say that its better to stay on the inside of the curve and try not to understeer into a divider.

Exactly .. Maybe that should clear all ur doubts ..

Also i mean finding the limits of ur cars on track not on public roads (which is why we make it a point to go to every track day and also kart during the weekends) .. But wanted to know if all this does indeed help u be a better street driver ..

And people still dont believe when i tell them i get 16+ km/ltr in my modded baleno in city.. How easy its to stereotype .. U do track days , drive a modded car , talk about this so ur rash

..

Shan2nu · 19th July 2006, 23:57

Quote:

But to know the difference in factors like road surface , tyre wear etc make u still need to know the basics dont u ??

Yes it is important to know the basic behavior of your car but, thats only for reference.

There's a reason why racing cars can't maintain the same lap times throughout the entire duration of a race. It's just not possible.

Everytime an F1 car comes into the pits, the driver has to reset whatever he had been doing for the previous few laps, bcoz the car would now be heavier, the traction levels would have changed, the brakes would have cooled off a bit... the list goes on.

Shan2nu

Sam Kapasi · 20th July 2006, 00:07

Whooops!! Didn't realise I'd be the only one who would vote for "what behaviour of the car are you talking about?"

shrivz · 20th July 2006, 00:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by mclaren1885

6. Use of handbreaks in emergencies to avoid head on collisions .. Its better to go sideways into a barrier than head on .. If done right atleast saves u the engine

..

I personally think its all easy to say this, but when ur in this kind of situation, you cant think so fast.. and nobody would think of saving their engine and going sideways when they're gonna experience a headon collission in 1/2 a sec...

This is just my personal opinion, since i've been in a similar situation, and have got saved by the skin of my teeth!!!

But I do agree that knowing the behaviour and limits of your car is as important as knowing how to release the clutch...

View Poll Results: How important is it for u to know the behaviour of ur car ??
It plays a vital role ..	41	87.23%
At the spur of the moment reflexes tend to do just the same unknowingly..	7	14.89%
What behaviour ?? How does it help ?? U must be joking ..	3	6.38%
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 47. You may not vote on this poll

19th July 2006, 21:10	#1
mclaren1885 BANNED Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Bangalore (the city of modded cars) !! Posts: 4,820 Thanked: 45 Times View My Garage Infractions: 0/1 (10)	How important is to understand the behaviour of ur car? Often i have come across instances where people keep driving at break neck speeds without having much knowledge about how their cars would respond to certain situations .. For eg : 1. Lack of back end grip due to weight transfer under heavy braking .. 2. The importance of downshifting instead of sitting on the breaks .. 3. The way ur car handles around corners and bends at high speeds .. 4. Also there always seems to be a misunderstanding that RACING Lines are DANGEROUS .. What are racing lines ?? Arent they the safest yet the quickest way to get around a corner ?? How ?? Well if u go from outside to outside u loose speed , time et all and also could end up loosing the grip and oversteer badly (mostly incase of FWDs).. I have tried this on track to see the difference and the effects of running wide could be ghastly .. Specially to those who at times max out their speedos on winding public roads without taking the proper lines (read on roads with dividers in btwn such that ther is no oncoming traffic barring there are no vehicles around as well).. This could lead to eminent dangers of hitting the dividers and sommersolting on running wide .. Also often i have seen many people doing a 3 digit speed , break hard on seeing a curve all the way until they get out .. Doesnt this lead to oversteer ?? And dangerous ?? 5. Use of opposite lock in certain drastic conditions and how it works .. 6. Use of handbreaks in emergencies to avoid head on collisions .. Its better to go sideways into a barrier than head on .. If done right atleast saves u the engine .. 7. Importance of not turning ur steering wheel when the wheels are locked due to heavy braking .. This sudden change in steering inputs could make u loose control of the car completely .. 8. Importance of not spinning ur wheels to get good times either at drag launches or on tracks .. How important is it for u to know how ur car handles ?? What factor could it play in ensuring u better control over ur car ?? PS : I have learnt quite a lot of these technicalities by going to track days and can see that they play a major role in driving either on city or highways too .. How much do u think it helps ??
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 21:19	#2
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	I agree with almost everything here... apart from going sideways into an accident...head on would always be safer than a side impact. Side impact may be prefrable if the speeds are low and provided if you hit on the side you arent sitting at. The car is not as strong on the sides as much as it is in the front or back. There simply isnt enough crush zone so to say, to absorb the impact. And another thing...trying to take racing lines anywhere on public highways is like looking for trouble. You can never be too careful on our roads. And also it pays to know the limits of your car. Can be a lifesaver. So in other words, track days will teach you the limits of your car in a relatively safer environment. Drifter Last edited by drifter : 19th July 2006 at 21:24.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 21:26	#4
theEnd BHPian Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Bombay Posts: 534 Thanked: 6 Times View My Garage	you beat me to it Drifter... good points! what's the scope for track days here in India?
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 21:29	#6
drifter Senior - BHPian Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 1,488 Thanked: 75 Times View My Garage	I understand what you meant when you talked about racing lines... Yup its a good practice to finish all your braking before arriving at the corner. EDIT: @theEnd: As of now, its only the boys down south who are able to enjoy track days due to the lack of facilities elsewhere in India. EDIT2: @mclaren: I guess you mean to say that its better to stay on the inside of the curve and try not to understeer into a divider. Drifter Last edited by drifter : 19th July 2006 at 21:36.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 23:28	#9
.anshuman Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Good-Gaon Posts: 7,763 Thanked: 11,064 Times View My Garage	I voted for "it plays a vital role" because i think knowing your car is very important if you like to push your cars to their limits as sometimes we expect them to deliver too much far beyond their limits. another things that are as important- 1.knowing your own limits 2.knowing the road,some cars give enough feedback but others are incapable of delivering the same.
	() Thanks

19th July 2006, 23:41	#11
F50 Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Mumbai/USA Posts: 1,707 Thanked: 103 Times	It is very important to know the limits but advisable to be below your limits on public roads. Limits are explored on tracks and public roads are not tracks. Because on public roads not only us but even others are in danger.
	() Thanks

20th July 2006, 00:07	#14
Sam Kapasi Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Mumbai (but wat Posts: 6,997 Thanked: 2,378 Times View My Garage	Whooops!! Didn't realise I'd be the only one who would vote for "what behaviour of the car are you talking about?"
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