[anand.shankar]

Hi guys,

I am posting for a friend who isn't on Team BHP. He owns a 2012 Hyundai i20 CRDI. It has run about 38K kms, and mostly used with city limits. I know for sure he is a light footed driver and is timely w.r.t. to service and maintenance etc. Recently, he has been facing power loss issues and after a couple of visits to the Service center he was told that the Turbo, Injectors and the Clutch plates are conked off. The estimates for fixing the turbo alone has crossed 1.2, add another 30K (approx) for the clutch. As for the injector, they HASS has told they will try fixing the O Ring seals on bests effort basis if which doesnt work warrants a replacement taking the total estimates to over 2.3 Lacs!!! All the issues started after the service of the car in April, and yes, the car is out of warranty.

My friend understands the working of a car, but isnt an expert on the topic. I am planning to go along with him to another dealer as well and get a second opinion. Please let me know :

1.how to deal with such issues, if any one here has experienced please help.
2.what should we be asking the service advisers ? as in, how can we make sure the root cause they are mentioning are indeed true ?
3.finally, what do you guys suggest about continuing with the car ?

I know, there cant be a definitive answer for the above, but please share your views

I am sharing his note to me, as well the initial estimates for the Turbo alone and few other minor issues. This doesn't include the clutch, and injector fixing costs.

Before service in April: power was ok


Gave it to service in April

After service : i found the car performance dropped. no ease of drive. very sluggish.

May/June

I visited the service center to get it checked, the adviser mentioned - clutch has wear and tear and may need replacement. I used injector additive, was better, for a while.


July

Drove to Ooty in July, Found reverse gear switch was leaking - needed replacement. - yet to be replaced

Recently:
Engine is making noise from one of the injectors - and it was leaking oil where the injector was mounted.


Service center findings: they mentioned turbo charger is leaking oil, and need replacement. O-ring of injector needs replacement. If it fixes the issue, good, else may need engine overhaul - said may cost up 3 laks,

[dark.knight]

If the car can be safely transported by towing (since there is an engine issue it preferably shouldn't be driven), I'd recommend a 2nd opinion from another service station with the actual car in their garage. Now I maybe wrong here but I'm just going by the stereotype responses of service advisors once the car reaches 40k, i.e constant mention of *some* clutch wear & tear & replacement of the same. While in some cases clutches do fail around that time (due to clutch riding in dense traffic), majority can easily cross 80K without any issue if treated well. Since as you've described the owner to be light-footed and timely to service I don't *think* the clutch plays a big role in the loss of acceleration, some wear & tear? Sure.

Now the turbo, did the Check-Engine light turn on in the cluster gauge? This is a very important indication of something going wrong within the engine. Power loss is also a very prominent effect of turbo failure. Did the car also make weird, out of the ordinary whining noise when under boost? All the rest can be found out only if they can inspect the car so do try taking it with yourselves. The costs are high thanks to the hefty margins & labour cost but negotiation is next to impossible here, hopefully they are only stating the minimum work to be done to bring the car upto standard and not bunching some add-on jobs to prevent future failures (like clutch).

[RSR]

I second dark.knight on this one. Please ask your friend to take the car to another Hyundai workshop. Other BHP-ians can provide information about the best Hyundai workshop in his city, a preferred service advisor etc.

I sense something fishy here. The workshop you mentioned may be trying to inflate the bill by performing unnecessary repairs/replacements.

Since genuine Hyundai parts are sold over-the-counter (through Mobis), and are also available now on a site like 99rpm.com, a competent independent garage with skilled mechanics is another option.

[sagarpadaki]

Since the problems cropped up immediately after a service, i feel the service center might have swapped the injectors with faulty ones!


And i don't believe all three components have failed in one shot. I smell foul play here. Clutch will not go bad at just 40K kms unless it driver rides the clutch a lot.And since the OP knows driving well this can be ruled out. I think the core problem is injector but the HASS are trying to pull a fast one by including unnecessary components as well since they can make big money in one shot.

i20 uses Delphi injectors. I would suggest you find a Delphi authorized injector service center near you and get it corrected over there. Will work out around 50% cheaper than HASS.

Also get an independent assessment done by BOSCH service center or any other competent FNG.

Found a list of Delphi service centers. Check if them if they can help your friend out
http://delphitvs.com/dist-network.aspx#3-2


Also the estimate list has a lot of nonsense stuff? Why are these included if the problem is present only with injectors,turbo and clutch?Nearly 12K worth of unnecessary stuff.

[model-t]

Just to give you an idea, I had a problem with my Hyunday Getz Prime 1.3 . Clutch gone, Self burnt and rear suspension needed an overhaul . The ASS quoted me 65k for the job. I got all the genuine parts from a shop in Gurgaon and the total cost including installation was less than 22K. In case nothing works, go to 99rpm.com and get the parts yourself. Spend a day with the service tech at a FNG and you may save some serious $$$.

Best of luck !

Sid

[Added_flavor]

Originally Posted by anand.shankar

Hi guys,

I am posting for a friend who isn't on Team BHP. He owns a 2012 Hyundai i20 CRDI.

As already said by others, failure of multiple expensive components at a mileage as low as 38K seems fishy. The fact that all this happened after a service adds to suspicion.

However, your post doesn't contain details of the exact issues faced by the owner. I'm just writing down some obvious symptoms when each of the above mentioned component fails.

1. Turbo failure is indicated by loud whistling noise from the turbo, emission of black smoke and severe power loss. Did this happen? Also, the first thing they check is the presence of lot of oil in the intercooler pipe.

2. Clutch failure can indeed happen suddenly, but does give indications like hard/heavy clutch action, sticky gear shifts and revving the engine to higher than normal RPMs to achieve 'normal' speeds.

3. Injector failure. I haven't experienced it ever. But I feel the engine malfunction light should glow when this happens. Did this happen?

Since the car is anyway not in warranty, it is better to get it checked outside. My recommendation is Bay6 Motorworks

Many T-Bhpians including yours truly have had and continue to have good experiences with these guys. All the best.

[anand.shankar]

Thanks guys for the suggestions, I am going over to his place now, will check for the things you guys have mentioned and update. Even I am with the opinion that he should get it done outside HASS. Will update the answers by evening.

[GTO]

Since the car is out of warranty, why is your friend wasting his time at the A.S.S. for such major repairs?

Lots of competent shops in Bangalore. Bay6 has good reviews, including for a Hyundai turbo replacement - link. Many more recommended shops in the Team-BHP Directory.

Let us know how the diagnosis goes and what parts actually required repair / replacement.

[anand.shankar]

Originally Posted by GTO

Since the car is out of warranty, why is your friend wasting his time at the A.S.S. for such major repairs?

Lots of competent shops in Bangalore. Bay6 has good reviews, including for a Hyundai turbo replacement - link. Many more recommended shops in the Team-BHP Directory.

Let us know how the diagnosis goes and what parts actually required repair / replacement.

Hi GTO,

You are right, my buddy is novice when it comes to cars. He drove it straight into the Service center when power loss issues happened.

Today, I went to the service center and inspected the car.

1.one of the injectors is spurting out oil, and white fumes at idle, I am sure this would increase on the run. there is a intermittent rhythmic hissing noise as well.

2.there was no smoke from exhaust at idle.

3.The Turbo seems to have leaked oil, but we did not revv the car into the turbo rpm band. SA says he found oil in the Turbo-intercooler hose.

After I asked him a few questions, he dropped down diagnosis to the O-ring seal and valve cover gasket, which he says will cost about 12K including labour. But no 100% guarantee of solution.

What I find funny is that with an injector leaking diesel, they have actually given quote for the turbo, suspensions, wipers etc. Injectors are not even mentioned in the quote.

Apart from this, the suspension mounts, reverse gear switch, and clutch plate assembly along with some other parts needs to be replaced as well.

We are pulling out the car from the SVC center, and will check out the Multi branded centers including Bosch and Bay 6.

Is it advisable to drive it around in this condition ? about 20-30 kms ? else we need to arrange for a tow.

[a4anurag]

Originally Posted by anand.shankar

1.one of the injectors is spurting out oil, and white fumes at idle

May be the piston rings are worn out that's sending the oil from the oil sump to the combustion chamber hence your seeing oil and smoke.

Originally Posted by anand.shankar

2.there was no smoke from exhaust at idle.

I would say it isn't clearly visible during idle RPM. You should have revved it slightly. Not to the turbo zone though.

Originally Posted by anand.shankar

3.The Turbo seems to have leaked oil, but we did not revv the car into the turbo rpm band. SA says he found oil in the Turbo-intercooler hose.

Get the EGR cleaned and intercooler cleaned too. Check the turbo plumbing and tighten if necessary.

Originally Posted by anand.shankar

Is it advisable to drive it around in this condition ? about 20-30 kms ? else we need to arrange for a tow.

Yes it is drivable but avoid revving it going into the turbo RPM zone.

[Eddy]

Originally Posted by anand.shankar

Is it advisable to drive it around in this condition ? about 20-30 kms ? else we need to arrange for a tow.

Totally no. Do not risk the car - I seriously doubt its road worthiness from what I've read.

[sandeepmdas]

Turbo and clutch failures are often related to driving habits, unfortunately. In fact, there are very good threads in this forum about how to keep these two from creating trouble. IIRC the one about turbo engines is created by none other than GTO.
If the engine-related problems are indeed creations of the service centre - could be, since the problems surfaced immediately after a service - how did the clutch fail?

- do not drive the car IMO, tow it instead. Condition may nosedive even though it is only a short distance.
- no need for a HASS since the car is out of warranty and it is in a metro area
- take a serious and critical look at the driving style of your buddy. This is purely my opinion and maybe I am wrong, but I think he is in a situation that is slowly but steadily created by himself.

[nik0502]

I am not surprised to see this thread.

I believe the quality of Hyundai cars have gone down considerably over last few Years. We have a fluidic Verna from the first batch. The clutch is was always a problem with the car as it used to make noise while engaging 1st or reverse gear. We got the clutch plates replaced at 29K KMs. the issue came back just after 2K Kms. Last week i was driving on highway. car was doing 70 KMPH I depressed the clutch to engage the 6th gear and the clutch stayed there and did not come up. I immediately knew it was issue with one of the cylinders in the car. Parked the car onto a side and found the lock which holds the slave Cylinder on the clutch was broken and the clutch became free. I arranged some loose wires and tied the clutch cylinder to the pedal. Last friday my friend's 14K run Verna refused to engage gear while driving & the car was towed to the service station. There he was told that the clutch plates are completely gone and needs to be changed. We spoke to the GM in service and he said had it been the cylinder which is bad we would have replaced under warranty as that's a common problem with Verna's but clutch is a wear & tear part and can not be honored under warranty. The car is 11 months old. My friend has been driving for some 10 years now. Out of 14K Kms the car has covered some 10 K Kms on highways, and clutch on his last car lasted for some 62K Kms. Sorry if it seems OT, i was just giving examples & it speaks a lot about the parts quality Hyundai is using.

nIk

[motorpsycho]

Originally Posted by nik0502

I am not surprised to see this thread.

I believe the quality of Hyundai cars have gone down considerably over last few Years. We have a fluidic Verna from the first batch.

Snip.. Snip

I arranged some loose wires and tied the clutch cylinder to the pedal. Last friday my friend's 14K run Verna refused to engage gear while driving & the car was towed to the service station. T

nIk

I agree with you , I was speaking to a buddy of mine who has business interests in Bangalore Auto industry mention that Turbo and Injector issues are pretty common with Hyundai. And to add to this spares are pretty expensive.

[dhanushs]

Originally Posted by anand.shankar

..
1.one of the injectors is spurting out oil, and white fumes at idle, I am sure this would increase on the run. there is a intermittent rhythmic hissing noise as well.

You have a compression loss through the injectors. Get it sorted out. Are you sure its oil? It should be diesel.

3.The Turbo seems to have leaked oil, but we did not revv the car into the turbo rpm band. SA says he found oil in the Turbo-intercooler hose.

Oil in the intake manifold after the turbo is generally a turbo bush wear sign. But then IMO, 90% of the vehicles after 30-40k have this. As long as you are not seeing a serious reduction in the oil level (dip stick), and there is no metal rubbing high pitched sound, or thick black smoke, you can easily drive around. I'm surprised they asked you to change the turbo.

O-ring seal

Where?

Is it advisable to drive it around in this condition ? about 20-30 kms ? else we need to arrange for a tow.

Can drive around. Just make sure there is enough oil in sump.

Originally Posted by a4anurag

May be the piston rings are worn out that's sending the oil from the oil sump to the combustion chamber hence your seeing oil and smoke.

Its a 2012 model CRDi engine, serviced timely. Do you think the rings will wear out this fast? If so, what might be the reason?