[captain.torque]

Hello all, at the onset I sincerely apologise for the long post.



I have an issue to share with all of you that has been bugging me since August 2017. No day has passed when I haven’t thought about this issue.

Even if for a few minutes, it does crop up in my mind every single day.

BACKGROUND

Well, it all began in June 2016 when I got the delivery of my spanking new Vitara Brezza, the ownership review is there on T-BHP http://http://www.team-bhp.com/forum...omes-home.html

Almost immediately after taking delivery, I started accessorizing the car. First and foremost was the usual stuff, seat covers, steering covers, car mats, etc.

Then came the electronic stuff and here lies the problem.

In July 2016, I got the following stuff installed in my car:
1. Hella Red Grill horns

2. Non-branded illuminated door sill guards

3. Relay for automatic closing, opening of side view mirrors

4. Non Branded LED lights in the rear bumper replacing the reflectors


Despite all these electrical accessories which required the original wire to be cut, there were absolutely no niggles in the car.

However, one year later, in July 2017 I decided to add some more bells and whistles and along with a front and rear ABS applique, I got three electronic items installed.

1. Roots Megasonic horns

2. Non branded front DRL cum indicator custom made for the Brezza

3. Ambient LED strip lights


Again for the LED strip light and DRL indicator wires were cut.

In fact as the DRL and the indicator were the same single LED strip they had to be connected directly to the battery in order to make them work in the afternoon.

Therefore, it meant that the minute I switched on the ignition, the DRL would come on even before starting the car.

It is important to mention here that along with the DRL cum indicator, the relay for the side view mirrors too was connected directly to the battery.

THE DOOMSDAY

Barely a month after getting these 3 things installed, I returned home as I park my cars in the street in front of my home, I have to move the Brezza to make way for my other car, City.

So, I push the start button, crank the engine but nothing happens, the car refuses to start. I keep trying for a few minutes but nothing happens. Although, all the electronics like music system, headlights, indicators, horn etc are working fine.

I call a local mechanic, he checks the battery but is not able to start the car. Gives up after 15 minutes of trying and diagnoses the problem as blockage in the fuel line i.e. diesel was not reaching the engine.

I call the Maruti roadside assistance, he too spends a few minutes with the car and corroborates that fuel is not reaching the engine.

So, I fix an appointment with the authorized dealership from where I bought the car and reach there the next morning with the broken down Brezza.

After waiting for half an hour they tell me some of the car’s fuses are not working and they will sort the issue within an hour at an estimated cost of around Rs.2000. I felt relieved and just sat in their waiting lounge.

However, a couple of hours later the service advisor tells me that there’s some serious issue with the car and they will need a few more days to diagnose the problem. So, I return home.

THE DIAGNOSIS

Almost 4 days later I get the shock of my life!

Due to all the wire cutting, my car’s ECM (Engine Control Module) had conked off and it needs replacement along with all the wiring. The total bill Rs.44,000 (Rs.20,000 for the ECM + Rs.19000 for the wiring + Rs.5000 labour charges).

After getting a second opinion from another Maruti workshop and I decided to get the job done as two weeks had gone by without the car.

Finally, I got my car after three weeks and touch wood now it’s running as new.

Although, relieved at getting my car back, there are several questions that crop up randomly and literally keep me up at night much to the chagrin of my better half.

First and foremost, before you throw brickbats at me, with folded hands I accept that I was in the wrong. I should have been careful with the electrical accessories

But what’s done is done and now I seriously need the advice of T-BHP gurus.

Firstly, I have owned many cars before the Brezza and all of them had outside electrical accessories installed in them. NONE of them ever had any issues? Any reason that the Brezza couldn’t take a few wire cuts?

Secondly, The Maruti SA told me the culprit was the horn and that the fuses couldn’t take the load and so the ECM broke. However, another SA from a different authorized workshop told me it was the DRL indicators. Whom should I believe?

Thirdly, there are scores of Brezzas out there with god knows all kinds of modifications both electronic and cosmetic, when I see them I feel so helpless.

I feel like I am a child in a playground and someone has chained me in the corner and I can just watch other put horns, HID lights, fancy music systems in their cars while I am afraid to even change a single bulb on my car now. I absolutely abhor this feeling.

In fact, before the problem occurred I was planning to get my car’s ICE upgraded and after managing my budget, had even put aside Rs.50,000 for the job. But the cruel irony is that all that money went in the repair of the car.

So, I humbly urge the T-BHP gurus to please help a fellow member and guide me as to what can I do next?

I just want add the Megasonic horn, rear bumper led lights, front DRL/indicator and relay for side view mirrors. Is there a way to get this done without any repercussions?

I am based in Delhi if anyone of you can guide a trustworthy electrician, a thorough professional in the NCR region I would be more than grateful.
Please help. Thanks.

Mods please move the post if this is not the appropriate thread. Thanks.

[Shreyans_Jain]

It is a most basic thing that whenever you add electrical accessories, you make sure the wiring and fuse are optimally rated. You also use relays for high power items like upgraded horns and lights. In case the wiring loom is cut at many places, it is very difficult to pin point exactly what went wrong where, in case you have a problem like in your case.

If you are not sure about the rating of the stock wires and fuse, a simple solution is to pull a new line straight from the battery for your new equipment, so you can have the safety net you require. You must always be mindful of the bigger picture, of how much load you are putting on your battery. A diesel car with high wattage headlights, upgraded horns, power everything and a high end ICE system with woofer and components will have serious current demands.

[captain.torque]

Originally Posted by Shreyans_Jain

pull a new line straight from the battery for your new equipment, so you can have the safety net you require

So, will it be okay if I reinstall the accessories (horn, DRL indicator, LED bumper lights, relay for side view mirrors) and connect them directly to the battery?

I haven't upgraded the ICE setup yet but a prominent car accessories shop here claims that they can upgrade the speakers along with woofer and amp WITHOUT voiding the car's warranty, which implies that they won't cut wires. How is that even possible???

[FarPatel]

Originally Posted by captain.torque

So, will it be okay if I reinstall the accessories (horn, DRL indicator, LED bumper lights, relay for side view mirrors) and connect them directly to the battery?

I haven't upgraded the ICE setup yet but a prominent car accessories shop here claims that they can upgrade the speakers along with woofer and amp WITHOUT voiding the car's warranty, which implies that they won't cut wires. How is that even possible???

After you check out your wire ratings etc, if you want to splice into your existing wires without completely cutting them, you may want to have a look at these connectors. I got them months ago for installing DRLs but haven't yet got the DRLs themselves so haven't actually used them, though they appear to be of pretty decent quality and should work perfectly I'm sure.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/500-...311.0.0.Md5a3q

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/5A-1...311.0.0.Md5a3q

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/60pc...311.0.0.Md5a3q

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by captain.torque

So, will it be okay if I reinstall the accessories (horn, DRL indicator, LED bumper lights, relay for side view mirrors) and connect them directly to the battery?

I haven't upgraded the ICE setup yet but a prominent car accessories shop here claims that they can upgrade the speakers along with woofer and amp WITHOUT voiding the car's warranty, which implies that they won't cut wires. How is that even possible???

My cars have dedicated wiring for headlights as well as the horn, directly from the battery. The wiring is complete with fuse as well as relay. This has proven to be safe and extremely reliable, although the engine bay looks rather cluttered with all the wires running across.

Scuff plates, LEDs and DRLS are just cosmetic add-ons and consume negligible current. For them, it is best you use a fuse tap and power them properly through the car's own wiring loom.

[scorpian]

Always and i say it again always run independent fuses and wires for accessories. Using additional load on existing wires is not the right way and you could potentially have issues.
A proper fuse tap,proper rated fuse go a long way in ensuring you dont destroy your ecm and wiring.
I would be careful to add the accessories again unless very surely what actually caused the issue.

[blackwasp]

Originally Posted by captain.torque

Firstly, I have owned many cars before the Brezza and all of them had outside electrical accessories installed in them. NONE of them ever had any issues? Any reason that the Brezza couldn’t take a few wire cuts?

Two things that I think I can help you avoid the same mistake twice-
1. Always install electrical accessories considering the worst case in mind - i.e always have the power to the accessories to directly via the battery via a fused line and ensure no wires are spliced.

2. Installation should be done in such a manner that 2-3 years down the line, any one opening up should understand what the previous guy has done. This is critical because the same guy won't be there next time around you want to add some accessories.

Further, the basic mistake we do is 'chalta hai' (if it works, it works) attitude. Even I've done it and I have learnt from it. So next time you go to install an accessory, ensure that it;s done in the best manner possible on Earth. Incase the installer says 'chalta hai', run away from him. Because its your ride and you have to live with any problems that could crop up.

Modern cars have a lot of sensitive electronics that could die due to some stray currents, voltages in the system. Plus the cars also have blank spots in the fusebox for the small accessories inside the car - ambient lights, sill guards etc., while you can choose a relay system for the ones like lights, horns etc.

[audioholic]

Sorry if I dont have the answers to your queries. It is like giving a huge problem statement with little data from different angles and expecting a solution for which the requires data isnt present. However, I am both curious to know what actually went wrong and also have the following comments:

Then came the electronic stuff and here lies the problem.

In July 2016, I got the following stuff installed in my car:
1. Hella Red Grill horns
2. Non-branded illuminated door sill guards
3. Relay for automatic closing, opening of side view mirrors
4. Non Branded LED lights in the rear bumper replacing the reflectors

1. Roots Megasonic horns
2. Non branded front DRL cum indicator custom made for the Brezza
3. Ambient LED strip lights

Who installed all this? Did you supervise the installation? If done by an accessory shop, did they know what they were doing or just seemed to assume that they can do everything?

Again for the LED strip light and DRL indicator wires were cut.

In fact as the DRL and the indicator were the same single LED strip they had to be connected directly to the battery
Therefore, it meant that the minute I switched on the ignition, the DRL would come on even before starting the car.

It is important to mention here that along with the DRL cum indicator, the relay for the sideview mirrors too was connected directly to the battery.

I asked the above questions mainly because when you say wires were cut, which were the wires which was cut? The accessory shop guys are notorious for doing all sorts of jugaad to source signals. Every other wire in the harness will carry 12V, and they can splice any wire, without knowing where this wire comes from and where it is heading to. Very few electricians have the actual knowledge of tracing circuits and knowing where to tap signal from.

So, I push the start button, crank the engine but nothing happens, the car refuses to start. I keep trying for a few minutes but nothing happens. Although, all the electronics like music system, headlights, indicators, horn etc are working fine.

Were there any error lights etc and did the car attempt to crank? Since you say the button start didnt work, I have a wild guess that some wire around the steering column which was responsible for the immobiliser or keyless entry was spliced. This would have caused the problem. Cars are evolving, but the technical capablities of the guys in the accessory shop ain't. If the car did crank but didnt start, then it will be a different issue.

After waiting for half an hour they tell me some of the car’s fuses are not working and they will sort the issue within an hour at an estimated cost of around Rs.2000. I felt relieved and just sat in their waiting lounge.

However, a couple of hours later the service advisor tells me that there’s some serious issue with the car and they will need a few more days to diagnose the problem. So, I return home.

Again, I have my doubts here. We dont know what they did with the car. It could have been a simple blown fuse or a short circuit in the harness. Sometimes, even the guys in the dealership try to experiment and fail. I have seen sparks flying out of a car when my car was for service since they connected the battery in reverse. Not sure what happened to that car.

Due to all the wire cutting, my car’s ECM (Engine Control Module) had conked off and it needs replacement along with all the wiring. The total bill Rs.44,000 (Rs.20,000 for the ECM + Rs.19000 for the wiring + Rs.5000 labour charges).

Since you were helpless in this situation, nothing much could have been done. I feel that the immobilizer inside the ECU got fried which led to the entire chain of events. When the immo is gone, though the car will crank, the fuel supply is cut off. The immobilizer wiring is one of the direct links between the ECU and the steering column where the wires would have been spliced. So that joins the dots for me. However this is just a probablity.

Firstly, I have owned many cars before the Brezza and all of them had outside electrical accessories installed in them. NONE of them ever had any issues? Any reason that the Brezza couldn’t take a few wire cuts?

The older Marutis had quite simple electricals in them. So much that the accessory shop guys know color codes of the wires and what signal they carry. But they try to use the same trick everywhere, and it wont work all the time. Sometimes the issue crops up immediately, while some other time it can turn up late.

Secondly, The Maruti SA told me the culprit was the horn and that the fuses couldn’t take the load and so the ECM broke. However, another SA from a different authorized workshop told me it was the DRL indicators. Whom should I believe?

The horn has no relation with the ECU. At least in the stock wiring. However if your installer did some jugaad, then I am not sure. If it was simple horn replacement, it shouldnt harm the ECU in any way. The DRLs might have been wired to an ECM signal, but thats a speculation from my end. Unless you actually check what went wrong, you wont be able to get to know what not to do again.

Thirdly, there are scores of Brezzas out there with god knows all kinds of modifications both electronic and cosmetic, when I see them I feel so helpless.

Are you sure all those cars havent ended up with problems? They might too some day, depending upon the quality of work done.

Originally Posted by captain.torque

In fact, before the problem occurred I was planning to get my car’s ICE upgraded and after managing my budget, had even put aside Rs.50,000 for the job. But the cruel irony is that all that money went in the repair of the car.

Even if you spend one lakh rupees and the installer is a moron, it will still be of no use. First search for a guy who can do a good job. Money will be secondary. Since there are many Bhpians from your area, you could go through the forum for reviews and choose a place accordingly.

The main tip I would like to give you is, dont blindly trust a third party and let him lay hands on your car. In the forum we already have a lot of technical information on what not, as well as a lot of DIY threads. Go through them, familiarize yourself with what is what. You needn't work on the car yourself but at least if you can do the job of a good supervisor, it will give you better results. At least in your case, I observed a lot of such instances where if you had observed what had happened, we could have found out the root cause. Hence, my sincere advise is to first know the car and the accessories better, and then think of modifying or adding accessories.

Beyond that, the second most important thing is the support tools and consumables used during installation. I have observed local accessory shop guys splicing wires like peeling carrots. When I wanted to add a sub-woofer to my car, which is again the only thing that a third party has done to my car, I stood there all the while, gave them the splice connectors, cable ties and related consumables to ensure that they did not do a shoddy job. Though they were reluctant to use it(typical chalega attitude and with an ego) I told them they better do it my way or I am writing off the deal.

Such things work for the short future. Later on, these turn up into issues and thats not something the shop would own up to. It will only lead to regret like this one and unnecessary expenses and worries. Now that your car has been brought back to stock setup(I assume), please do a fair bit of homework before heading out to add an accessory.

[dracul]

If you can't install it all by yourself then don't bother. Never ever trust any installer. There are a lot of examples in this forum. BTW what is that relay for mirror?

[Thermodynamics]

It is common that fuses and relays give away. Infact fuses are meant for that purpose. I wonder how the Engine stops cranking. Is it like some security logic to stop car thieves bypassing the key and tampering the wiring ?

I also own a Brezza, once I was told by service engineer that never run the vehicle out of fuel. There is some security algorithm that won't allow you to crank even if you have made a tank full. The vehicle must be brought to service centre to reset the code. Wierd logics.

[captain.torque]

Originally Posted by audioholic

Who installed all this? Did you supervise the installation? If done by an accessory shop, did they know what they were doing or just seemed to assume that they can do everything?

The job was carried out by a prominent accessory shop. However, it was much later (once the damage was done) that I found out that the electrician wasn't a full time employee of that particular shop.

Although, I was there when he was splicing the wires, to be honest neither did I have any knowledge about which wires were being cut nor did he (I am assuming).

Originally Posted by audioholic

Were there any error lights etc and did the car attempt to crank?

None at all.

Originally Posted by audioholic

If the car did crank but didnt start, then it will be a different issue

Yep, the car did crank but refused to start.

Thank you so much for giving detailed replies of all the queries. Much appreciated!

Originally Posted by dracul

BTW what is that relay for mirror?

When you unlock the car, the side view mirrors open on their own and similarly close when you lock the car

[ghodlur]

Originally Posted by captain.torque

When you unlock the car, the side view mirrors open on their own and similarly close when you lock the car

Did you mean lock the doors?? If so, does it mean the OVRM's remain closed when the car is in motion with doors locked? Is this feature available on any variants of the Brezza?

[captain.torque]

Originally Posted by ghodlur

Did you mean lock the doors?? If so, does it mean the OVRM's remain closed when the car is in motion with doors locked? Is this feature available on any variants of the Brezza?

See, I have the Zdi+ variant in which you have to push a button to open the side view mirrors after turning the ignition on.

If you don't press the button, then the mirrors will remain closed even if the car is in motion. Basically, it's upto you whether you want to open the mirrors or not.

But with the relay, all you have to do is unlock the car using the remote and the mirrors open on their own. (This feature was present on the previous i20 as well. Not sure about the elite i20 though.)

[BB311]

I have had a similar experience with my last car, Maruti Suzuki Swift. It was a Lxi Model and I installed a 12v socket in my car for mobile charging. The end result after just 3 days was a burnt ECU. I got a second-hand ECU from a total loss car and got my car repaired at a friendly FNG. Always, monitor what the local accessory shops do.

Had another flawed installation experience just a day ago. In my current car, Ford advised me to remove the headlight relay and switch back to the 55w light source as the current setup will void warranty. I went to a local accessory shop to get the relay removed and install new 55w (in place of existing 90/100). I was just browsing around the shop for some wax polish when the work was done (my bad, should have supervised) and the guy removed the relay, installed the old 100W back and charged me for new bulbs as well. The end result, I now have a couple of blown fuses and my headlights high beam has stopped working. FYI, after the fuses were blown I have switched back to a 55W bulb on my own but the headlights high beam is still not functional.Need to visit ASS now to get new fuses changed.

On a side note, I have a heavy duty ICE installed from Motorconcepts Delhi (I am not advertising and I am in no way linked to them) and Ford Service engineers have never raised a red flag. They raised it only for the headlights' relay. I actually asked my Service advisor about the ICE setup and he said its ok, there is no stock wiring alteration here.

Moral of the story: Chose your installer and accessory guy wisely.

[motorguy]

In all my cars, I have followed a basic principle -- Never install aftermarket accessories except those that are quite simple - for example a 12V outlet for mobile charging. About 2 years back, I bought one for my Eon Dlite + (since the car didn't come with it). Brought it to Popular Hyundai Kottayam during one of the service intervals and stayed with the mechanic till it was installed.

During the installation he suggested linking it to the battery directly. I didn't agree to this since this can become a fire hazard. I asked him to link it to the ACC position of the ignition switch so that when the car is completely switched off, no power goes to the socket.

Second, he said lets bypass fuses - again, I was shocked- fire hazard potential. I asked him to open the fuse box and found a fuse position specifically for the 12V socket (which is there on upper variants of the car) and wired it to that.

Recently I have seen an issue with my central locking indicator light on my Elite i20 which flickers after some time and turns dim. This was traced to a problem with the connector connecting to the central locking switch. The Hyundai service center told me that the entire wiring harness needs to be changed (since the connector cannot be replaced on its own because there is no part available as a connector alone) OR the wires connected to the connector needs to be cut and individually soldered to a new connector on a new wiring harness (they would get the wiring harness, cut the pin portion, and only re-attached that portion to the switch but not install the wiring harness to avoid removal of dashboard which could create many more problems).

I refused and decided to live with the light issue - after all doors were locking and it was only the switch light that was flickering or going off- changing an entire wiring harness is an overkill for this issue. With today's complex electronics in cars, one can't take a chance since even the AS* guys are not completely clued in and you may end up with many more problems that you had initially.