[R2D2]

Originally Posted by jinojohnt

A battery dealer to whom I talked to, says the battery life indicator is just connected to only one (out of 6) cell in the car battery, so it just indicates the health of that particular cell.

Yep, he's right. The Magic Eye Indicator shows the health of only 1 of 6 cells.

But for all practical purposes if there's a problem in 1 cell that itself is a good reason to check the others.

Also, if any one or more of 6 cells die the battery needs to be replaced.

Originally Posted by //HB

I'm quite sure I recall having this thing on one of the batteries atleast 8 - 9 years ago ? And surely it wasn't one of the more expensive ones.

It is an old technology AFAIK it first came out in Indian products in the late '90s or early 2000s.

A question regarding the product on which this thread is based - is it similar to the so-called "gel" battery offered in scooters (activa etc.) ? Since those too are non-refillable ?

No, gel cell batteries have solid electrolyte comprising of H2So4 and water in a 'carrier' made of silica or other substance. It looks something like a thick jelly (hence called gel) with electrolytic properties. And yes, they too are sealed with small gaps in the vent holes to allow gasses to escape. Majority of the gasses are recombined to form water hence these batteries do't need top-ups and should not be topped up. There are some videos on YT where authors claim to have successfully revived a gel or AGM battery from the dead. That's a hit and miss and I really won't recommend these experiments to users. Those battery components and chemicals are toxic and one can get hurt.

Exide's sealed batteries are wet batteries with the electrolyte (water + H2So4) in liquid form. The only difference between these Advanz/Matrix/Epiq batteries and other automotive batteries in the Exide range is the latter have removable vent caps which IMO is a good thing to have in tropical climate.

Unless it is explicitly mentioned as gel or AGM (Absorbed Glass Mat, frequently found in luxury EU sedans) the batteries are wet type construction.

Originally Posted by Viraat13

However, there is another caveat to this. The discount offered is only on the MRP, and not applicable if the dealer is giving a discount from his end. What this means is that buying a new battery without applying this rubbish pro rata warranty is oftentimes cheaper!!!

Yes the discount is on MRP without any discount applied. So that itself lops off a few %age points of discount in the so called warranty. I think vehicle owners need to wise up and realise that the pro-rata warranty isn't a warranty at all..just a discount on a replacement provided you buy the same brand of course. Think of it as a loyalty discount. Trust our smart alec companies to cook up marketing jargon to impress the customer.

Originally Posted by Brumby

The warranty for replacement is not valid unless a service record is regularly maintained in the warranty booklet, by an authorised dealer of the company Now who maintains a service record of the battery with an authorised dealer of the company, a straight case to make the warranty claim null and voids

It is just another Exide CYA method. I need to ask these fools exactly what is there to check in a sealed battery? The only thing they can do is check the alternator voltage and charging amps. If these check out OK and the battery still shows signs of failure just simply replace it. Note Amaron (& AFAIK Tata Green) doesn't have this clause in the warranty fine print.

For commercial vehicles the warranty is 12 months - strange, isn't it. I really fail to understand this warranty business.

Commercial vehicles are deemed to have lengthy maintenance intervals and very high mileage. In worst case scenarios they aren't maintained at all. Exide is simply guesstimating how many times a CV get its electrical system checked. TBH the chances are low, if not zero, and it will remain so till something goes wrong. Therefore this is yet another CYA.

[Brumby]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Commercial vehicles are deemed to have lengthy maintenance intervals and very high mileage. In worst case scenarios they aren't maintained at all. Exide is simply guesstimating how many times a CV get its electrical system checked. TBH the chances are low, if not zero, and it will remain so till something goes wrong. Therefore this is yet another CYA.

Actually the CVs must have longer warranty period, considering that their batteries are more likely to remain under charging conditions as compared to private vehicles. This 12 months warranty clause is useless considering that they have already washed their hands off from providing warranty services under the clause of having a regular checks.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Brumby

Actually the CVs must have longer warranty period, considering that their batteries are more likely to remain under charging conditions as compared to private vehicles. This 12 months warranty clause is useless considering that they have already washed their hands off from providing warranty services under the clause of having a regular checks.

Would you pay more for a vehicle, say a car, that has experienced commercial use as a taxi or for a vehicle that has been "single owner driven" and used as a personal transport? The answer is obvious.

Maintenance is generally satisfactory to very good with privately owned and owner-driven vehicles. Mileage is also lower. Battery manufacturers think much the same way.

As for charging - just because the engine is driving an alternator connected to the battery does not mean it is constantly charging. It could be a float charge whereby the state of charge is maintained at 90-100% where water losses and plate damage are minimal. The regulator, and in some cars the ECU, takes care of this.

But one thing for sure with any battery, the count down to EOL starts the day the battery is assembled at the factory. Whether left unused on a shelf or fitted to a vehicle that battery is will die some day. Putting it simply they are consumables & have a finite life. This goes for Li-ion or Li-Po batteries too. You can prolong a battery's life with good maintenance but cannot prevent EOL.

If a battery shows signs of giving up or dies just replace it. Just like one would replace tyres, brake pads, rotors, bulbs, spark plugs, air filters and similar consumable items. I replace my car batteries every 3-4 years as a matter of habit or at the first sign of weakness since I hate being stranded (wife would have a field day at my expense) or if my car doesn't start when I have an important appointment.

[CrackedHead]

Originally Posted by GTO

Wow! I thought this 'battery life indicator' was a new thing.

Will try and look for a picture but AC Delco had introduced this in India more than a decade ago. IIRC - the marketing term used then was "magic eye"

[Brumby]

Originally Posted by R2D2

Would you pay more for a vehicle, say a car, that has experienced commercial use as a taxi or for a vehicle that has been "single owner driven" and used as a personal transport? The answer is obvious.

I beg to differ here, because we are talking about the battery and not the vehicle as a whole. We can assume that the charging system might not be working 'as designed', but as you mentioned, the systems are designed to charge the batteries with a voltage regulator which automatically reduces the charging current, similar to a trickle charge system, so a vehicle in operation on continuous basis ensures better charging of the battery.
We hardly see commercial vehicles needing push or jump start these days, imagine a loaded 10 tonne truck not maintaining its battery and requiring a jump start. So providing a straight 12 months warranty for a battery fitted on a commercial vehicle (taxis included) is something beyond my understanding. Again a case of CYA, may be.

Regards

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Brumby

I beg to differ here, because we are talking about the battery and not the vehicle as a whole. We can assume that the charging system might not be working 'as designed', but as you mentioned, the systems are designed to charge the batteries with a voltage regulator which automatically reduces the charging current, similar to a trickle charge system, so a vehicle in operation on continuous basis ensures better charging of the battery.
We hardly see commercial vehicles needing push or jump start these days, imagine a loaded 10 tonne truck not maintaining its battery and requiring a jump start. So providing a straight 12 months warranty for a battery fitted on a commercial vehicle (taxis included) is something beyond my understanding. Again a case of CYA, may be.

The analogy is because commercial use vehicles see more mileage than privately owned ones of comparative age. More mileage equals more wear and tear on different components. On top of which commercial vehicles don't often see regular maintenance. Would you agree with this premise? Resale is of course secondary to this discussion and I was only using it to drive home a point.

This is the same thought process that battery manufacturers apply when warrantying their products. So, yes, it is a case of CYA by Exide..another one being the monthly dealer checkups. That's like so passe but they WILL use it as a reason to duck a warranty claim.

As for batteries not failing that's because battery technology, manufacturing technology have improved over the years resulting in fewer failures. One of my Exide Matrix batteries lasted about 6 years and 3 months, the longest lasting battery I've ever had in my cars. The second lasted 3.5+ years. Been with Amaron since Sept 2013 (not 2014 as I thought). Earlier my Exide or SF batteries used to fail or exhibit signs of weakness between the 2nd and 3rd year after purchase. Yeah, I am happier for the extra reliability but not with the warranty T&C. That "pro-rata warranty" is a sham.

[Sutripta]

This is turning into a Exide bashing thread. So just to be fair, as far as I know, this prorata 'warranty' thing was started by Amaron.

Regards
Sutripta

[i74js]

Battery and Tyre warranty follow almost the same pattern wherein depending upon the offer a part of duration covers free replacement whereas after that its only pro-rata.

The disadvantage of pro-rata business is that if I as user am aware that, the product quality is poor and I should consider switching to an alternate brand, the pro-rata doesn't let me do that and I am stuck with a single brand.

Initial batteries in all my cars were from Exide whereas I have not found them lasting long. Amaron for that matter has offered better value for money and have lasted longer.

Our forum also confirms that Exide batteries are not all that great - Why it is then almost every manufacturer uses their batteries as original fitment? Heck even Tata cars carry a mix of both Tata Green & Exide across segments. Is it price at which Exide is able to supply to OEMs or something else?

[Brumby]

Originally Posted by R2D2

The analogy is because commercial use vehicles see more mileage than privately owned ones of comparative age. More mileage equals more wear and tear on different components.

Wear and tear is generally associated with moving components, for battery and charging/electric wiring systems there is hardly any wear and tear associated with more milage.

Any commercial vehicle with failed battery charging system will have a drained/failed battery within a day of operation, and any commercial vehicle not seen being jump/push started itself is a testimony that the batteries and associated electrical charging system is maintaining good health. Under or overcharging will not let a battery survive more than a month if not weeks, if regular maintenance (topping up/charging) is not done

Definitely manufacturing technology has improved and so is the battery life, which means the manufacturers can give higher warranties. For me any manufacturer will give a gaurantee depending upon the trust and confidence that he himself has in the product. More riders reflect lack of quality and trust of the manufacturer in his own product. Any product having unconditional warranty shows the confidence a manufacturer has in his product quality control.

I remember one incident while learning the tricks of my trade. My instructor said that, your teacher can only allow you to experiment only to an extent what is within his capabilities to set right, if something goes wrong.

I somewhat relate that for warranties as well. Manufacturers always know what can go wrong, and how much abuse their product can handle, hence the warranty periods and riders.

[R2D2]

Originally Posted by Brumby

Wear and tear is generally associated with moving components, for battery and charging/electric wiring systems there is hardly any wear and tear associated with more milage.

This is going off topic but here goes. Batteries and charging systems do experience wear and tear and the chances of failure increases with time and use/mileage. For e.g. batteries experience plate corrosion, terminals and connectors corrode and fail. The alternator experiences worn out brushes and /or bearings. There can also be failures in the stator/rotor windings mainly due to insulation failure (short), or the rectifier/regulator. These are rare but do occur.

I somewhat relate that for warranties as well. Manufacturers always know what can go wrong, and how much abuse their product can handle, hence the warranty periods and riders.

Yes, that is true which is why there are riders. Best to read the fine print on the warranty card. SF, Exide have similar T&C while Amaron seems to have a more customer friendly warranty T&C.