2 stroke injection

ronk · 21st December 2006, 09:15

Hey.. am taking up project on fuel injection of a 2 stroke engine.. Please help me with ideas... any advice welcome..

Rehaan · 21st December 2006, 09:56

Hi Ronk,

How about posting a little more background about your project ?

cya
R

ronk · 21st December 2006, 14:15

oh, okay... it's absolutely in the beginning stage.. Only planning going on now.. intend to take an old 2 stroke engine, kinetic honda or something .. then modify it to house an injection unit.. injection circuit either made in house or sourced from somewhere else.. low budget... college project

ronk · 21st December 2006, 14:20

yeah sure, the projects absolutely in the nascent stage.. basic plan is to get a 2 stroke kinetic honda engine or some other engine.. Modify it to house an injector.. injection circuit built in house or sourced from elsewhere... and do an efficiency study... Low budget, looking for sponsors, and people with technical knowhow, especially in the electronics part of the project... College final year project.

Mpower · 21st December 2006, 21:07

This one will be a challenge if you attempt DI. In 2 strokes there is no time for mixing and therefore you have to use an air assist injector that delivers premixed fuel vapour.

If you inject upstream of reed valve then its easy but there is no benefit over and above what a carb does. You need to get the timing right and tune (set) the injector pluse width using an o2 sensor.

v1p3r · 23rd December 2006, 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

This one will be a challenge if you attempt DI. In 2 strokes there is no time for mixing and therefore you have to use an air assist injector that delivers premixed fuel vapour.

Tough ask. And where would you find that sort of injector?

ronk · 23rd December 2006, 19:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

This one will be a challenge if you attempt DI. In 2 strokes there is no time for mixing and therefore you have to use an air assist injector that delivers premixed fuel vapour.

yeah, where do we get an injector like that from.. and how much do you think the project will cost, an estimate..

v1p3r · 24th December 2006, 00:59

Cost will depend on your control unit.

Mpower · 24th December 2006, 02:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

Tough ask. And where would you find that sort of injector?

Dont think its freely available. Company called Orbital did lot of research and also makes the injectors.
So far there are 3 products I know of that have 2 stroke FI. There is an Aprillia scooter, a Taiwanese scooter and a Yamaha Outboard motor. The Yam however is not a DI.

v1p3r · 24th December 2006, 03:52

Can't remember the Aprilia, but the Gilera Runner is 2T and FI. Dunno about those huge Kwacker jet-skis...they put out some serious horsepower though.

Mpower · 24th December 2006, 04:39

Well Aprilia took over Piaggio which owns Gilera and Vespa, so technically its the same engine. Aprilia calls it DiTech and Gilera calls it PureJet. Runner is a big wheel scooter.

The other one is actually a chinese scooter manufacturer called Sundiro (not Taiwanese like I earlier blurted out).

I for one am a big fan of 2 strokes and wish they can live on with DFI, but sadly the emission norms for 2 wheelers in India is stricter than Europe.

(how stoopid is that considering autos that look like chemical weapons still roam around, maybe the union minister made a typo with the decimal point when he made the law). Even the DiTech that sold in Europe will not make indias emissions.

Here more info in the technology.

Synerject Direct Injection System

Ronk, your best bet is to source the system and retrofit it, or go for injection at the reed valve.

ronk · 24th December 2006, 13:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mpower

Ronk, your best bet is to source the system and retrofit it, or go for injection at the reed valve.

hey.. thanks, but then the project won't have much worth.. as viper said i think we can put it up.. and it'll work till 3000 rpm, maybe try that and then improve upon it, if possible.. how difficult is it to incorporate an air injection unit ourselves? oh and sorry about the ignorance, but what's a reed valve??

v1p3r · 24th December 2006, 18:25

I suggest you try this setup with a 4 st engine instead. A lot easier...

Mpower · 24th December 2006, 20:47

Or use indirect injection, as in position the injector in the same place as the carburettor.

I cant tell you how complicated DI is without knowing what resources you have, but just to give you an idea, not many companies even attempted it. I believe TVS had done some research, you can talk to them thru your college. Bajaj actually purchased rights to Orbital technology but instead choose to go 4-stroke to meet emissions.

ronk · 24th December 2006, 23:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by v1p3r

I suggest you try this setup with a 4 st engine instead. A lot easier...

you mean the project will be basically setting up an injector circuit?? or we should try air assisted injection?

21st December 2006, 09:15	#1
ronk BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 158 Thanked: 53 Times View My Garage	2 stroke injection Hey.. am taking up project on fuel injection of a 2 stroke engine.. Please help me with ideas... any advice welcome..
	() Thanks

21st December 2006, 09:56	#2
Rehaan Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bombay Posts: 24,295 Thanked: 35,331 Times	Hi Ronk, How about posting a little more background about your project ? cya R
	() Thanks

21st December 2006, 14:15	#3
ronk BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 158 Thanked: 53 Times View My Garage	project background oh, okay... it's absolutely in the beginning stage.. Only planning going on now.. intend to take an old 2 stroke engine, kinetic honda or something .. then modify it to house an injection unit.. injection circuit either made in house or sourced from somewhere else.. low budget... college project
	() Thanks

21st December 2006, 14:20	#4
ronk BHPian Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Bengaluru Posts: 158 Thanked: 53 Times View My Garage	yeah sure, the projects absolutely in the nascent stage.. basic plan is to get a 2 stroke kinetic honda engine or some other engine.. Modify it to house an injector.. injection circuit built in house or sourced from elsewhere... and do an efficiency study... Low budget, looking for sponsors, and people with technical knowhow, especially in the electronics part of the project... College final year project.
	() Thanks

21st December 2006, 21:07	#5
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,732 Times View My Garage	This one will be a challenge if you attempt DI. In 2 strokes there is no time for mixing and therefore you have to use an air assist injector that delivers premixed fuel vapour. If you inject upstream of reed valve then its easy but there is no benefit over and above what a carb does. You need to get the timing right and tune (set) the injector pluse width using an o2 sensor.
	() Thanks

24th December 2006, 00:59	#8
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,353 Thanked: 7,091 Times View My Garage	Cost will depend on your control unit.
	() Thanks

24th December 2006, 03:52	#10
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,353 Thanked: 7,091 Times View My Garage	Can't remember the Aprilia, but the Gilera Runner is 2T and FI. Dunno about those huge Kwacker jet-skis...they put out some serious horsepower though.
	() Thanks

24th December 2006, 04:39	#11
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,732 Times View My Garage	Well Aprilia took over Piaggio which owns Gilera and Vespa, so technically its the same engine. Aprilia calls it DiTech and Gilera calls it PureJet. Runner is a big wheel scooter. The other one is actually a chinese scooter manufacturer called Sundiro (not Taiwanese like I earlier blurted out). I for one am a big fan of 2 strokes and wish they can live on with DFI, but sadly the emission norms for 2 wheelers in India is stricter than Europe. (how stoopid is that considering autos that look like chemical weapons still roam around, maybe the union minister made a typo with the decimal point when he made the law). Even the DiTech that sold in Europe will not make indias emissions. Here more info in the technology. Synerject Direct Injection System Ronk, your best bet is to source the system and retrofit it, or go for injection at the reed valve. Last edited by Mpower : 24th December 2006 at 04:40.
	() Thanks

24th December 2006, 18:25	#13
v1p3r Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: BLR / DXB / LON Posts: 5,353 Thanked: 7,091 Times View My Garage	I suggest you try this setup with a 4 st engine instead. A lot easier...
	() Thanks

24th December 2006, 20:47	#14
Mpower Senior - BHPian Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Bangalore Posts: 10,409 Thanked: 1,732 Times View My Garage	Or use indirect injection, as in position the injector in the same place as the carburettor. I cant tell you how complicated DI is without knowing what resources you have, but just to give you an idea, not many companies even attempted it. I believe TVS had done some research, you can talk to them thru your college. Bajaj actually purchased rights to Orbital technology but instead choose to go 4-stroke to meet emissions.
	() Thanks