[dip27in]

Have you heard the story about two elderly couples, who completed fifty years of their marriage, and were being interviewed by a reporter?
The news guy asked them, "How did you manage to stay married for so long?"
The old man, with a beaming smile, answered.. "We come from an age where broken things were fixed, not thrown away!"

Well, I believe in the same when it comes to cars. I shall tell you why.
My association with cars started long back, when I was in my childhood. My first memory of a car is of a Fiat Millicento, riding with my father. We also had a '67 1100D, which gave up her engine after running for about 2.5L kilometers. It was repaired at our home and ran another 40K kilometers before being sold. Currently I have a '88 Premiere Padmini which is going strong at 1.72L kilometers, despite PAL going out of business on '95. The European siblings are doing equally good, which consist of one of the most hated ( and equally coveted) 2005 Skoda vrs.

So, in a way I was brought up in a culture of maintaining ( without any Authorised workshop support) and loving cars . This went on in the modern age of Indian Car scene as well, for a different reason. As the Indian automotive market became open back in '90s, and multiple manufacturers came in, the common Indian car buyer expected more choice, lesser price and a little more customer-centric behavior. Those things did happen, but along with that came the shrewdness of the foreign players as well. The manufacturers tried to milk the customers through a thousand different means. Car sale margins dropped and car servicing became the next best revenue channel. Extended warranties and AMCs became a minefield of hidden clauses and exclusions, a simple assurance document became a meticulously drafted list of items which can not fail, and are therefore covered. Another notorious practice is the one of replacing parts as a whole, even when there is an opportunity of fixing or changing a child part. I can share umpteen example but it wont be wise to let down the blind trust of authorised workshops of India.

Also, I feel as a whole the car maintenance philosophy became lazy, the servicing teams just thinking 'what' to replace a failing part instead of asking 'why' and trying to identify the root cause of the problem. This habit of them has forced me to shy away from servicing my cars at service centers. I try to maintain them at my home, with the best of my limited knowledge, understanding and a whole lot of love. I profusely thank my stars that doctors cant change body parts, else we would not have been left of anything we were born with.

If you remember the movie Rush, there was a dialogue by Niki Lauda.. "God gave me an okay mind, but a really good ass, through which I can feel everything in a car". It really gives me a thrill, a taste of the hunt, to identify the why, the what and the where of the problem by looking, feeling or hearing troublesome car.

This is one such case of a car, a Skoda Yeti. It belongs to a friend of a BHPian.

Popped the hood, and immediately noticed this:


Looks like a simple belt failure, which had taken a few other things with it.



The belt damaged the camshaft position sensor as well.

However, on closer inspection one could see that the belt was in a fairly okay, if not good, shape.


So why would a belt with quite a few thousand kilometers still to go snap suddenly?
On deeper inspection, the rogue part was found out to be the belt tensioner. While the engine was running, the tensioner gave up, and the slacked belt was pulled by the running engine causing the snap. The Yeti has the belt mechanism encased in a compartment, therefore the loosened belt had nowhere to go, and had damaged a few other components in the same chamber.


The Timing tension Spring was totally damaged. It failed to hold the belt in place, which according to my finding should be the main reason for this catastrophic failure.




The engine compartment of this particular car is very crowded, which made the disassembly a tiresome job. Had started working on this at 3 in the afternoon, and was done by 7 in the evening.


The turbo, disassembled.


Some evidence how it can affect the engine.


Engine head disassembled.


Most of the parts were not readily available over the counter in India, and others were terribly overpriced. Therefore 95% of the parts were ordered from Europe, by quoting the VIN number and parts numbers from OE online catalogue. The Skoda online manuals, VAG forums and parts directories were a huge help.




While assembling, getting the timing right was tricky. Skoda has a 'timing tool', which is effectively a stencil to fit on the side of the engine, and the different parts have to be aligned according to markings on that. However this part being quite costly, and the use case being one-off, we decided to do this manually using some common sense and old school Indian jugaad mindset. And it worked out just fine! All the sites, I have gone through during the rebuilt, mentioned everything



As the disassembly took quite some time, the assembly was started early in the morning, at 7AM, to use maximum daylight hours.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Du-RmY3HeyA

During the process of assembly:





Even with the engine assembled, on the first attempt it failed to start. I had procured an Autel scanner some time back on a whim, and had been frustrating people by scanning their cars and pointing out errors since then, but this time it was put to good use. Apparently the various ECU parameters were reset to default (0), and post fixing that, the engine started just fine!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWbdUkQgueE

What helped:

1. Not-so-helpful support and not-at-all-helpful pricing from the manufacturer. Do not want to quote numbers here and invoke the wrath of the manufacturer, but the fix was done at a much lower cost than one can imagine.
2. The online manuals and part details for the manufacturer. They are quite detailed and intuitive. Just that workshop technicians dont use it.
3. The scanner from Autel. Without that, even with all the mechanical fixes, the car would not have started. I dont have VAG and I am happy about it, since I have another option which works perfectly.

Finally the dashboard looked less illuminated. ( God knows what and how many signs I encountered during the process)




Last Sunday the car came for a checkup after some odd 400kms drive. Everything looked perfect and in place. The car was brought back to road within 28 days, even with expected delays by customs clearing.

[GTO]

Thread moved from the Assembly Line to Technical Stuff. Thanks for sharing!

[McLaren Rulez]

Originally Posted by dip27in;4574576[B

][/b]

1. Not-so-helpful support and not-at-all-helpful pricing from the manufacturer. Do not want to quote numbers here and invoke the wrath of the manufacturer, but the fix was done at a much lower cost than one can imagine.

Please do not hesitate to share numbers if your concern is "angering" Skoda. This is a free country - you have every right to share and it would certainly be helpful for other Yeti owners.

[hifisharu]

Could you please give some details of number of kms the engine had run? The reason I ask is that currently I'm based in Germany and while looking for a used car, the number one issue everyone is aware of or warned me is to stay away from vehicles which are close to the 90k 100k kms mark and haven't had their Timing belts replaced. I have a VW Golf petrol and just last month had the Timing belt replaced. The kit consists of the Timing Belt, Water pump, tension rollers and some other bits and pieces. It's a fairly expensive 'repair', costing around 550 euros. VW recommends checking the Timing Belt condition at 90k kms and many people tend to postpone it, since it is an expensive fix. Of course these mileage values are for European conditions, with lower wear and tear compared to Indian conditions.

Edit: Saw in the last pic, had/has the vehicle run only 20,000 kms?

[ALTIMAed]

If I could add a few cents

I run a small laundry business at Kolkata. One day a gentleman dropped in along with his wife. I noticed their vehicle outside - it was a Skoda Yeti, indeed a rare species. After accepting their laundry, I just could not hold myself from commenting about the Yeti. They were all praise for it barring the fact that the ASS had been taking them for a joy ride, which made them decide to dispose it off.

On the subject of its replacement, the Marazzo was suggested, I did warn them that there is no comparison between the two, which the gentleman confirmed after taking a TD.

A thought crossed my mind, what if I could suggest someone who could help them, or rather solve their maintenance requirements, would they sell the Yeti. The immediate response was "No never".

The person in mind was our Bhpian Dip27in. I called him up and explained the issue. It was very nice of him to take a look at it. The rest is history.

I felt really happy to have been able to suggest safe hands for the Yeti and prevent it from heading to the junkyard. The owner, till date thanks me for my recommendation.

Thanks a lot Dip27in for having spared a lot of time and effort to get the Yeti back on the road.

[dip27in]

Originally Posted by McLaren Rulez

Please do not hesitate to share numbers if your concern is "angering" Skoda. This is a free country - you have every right to share and it would certainly be helpful for other Yeti owners.

I usually compare various sites for different parts. For generic parts like brake, suspension and filters I refrain from using oe parts, since there are better options available ( as per my preference though). For example, my civic runs on kyb red, BMW runs on sachs.

For oe components or car specific parts, I refer to skoda-parts at times. They are costly but prompt.

[amit_i]

This is the nice thread specially for the Skoda Yeti owners who want to retain their vehicle for long long time. Wish we could have someone like Bhpian Dip27in nearby to assist us. My yeti has crossed 97k and has been regularly being services with Skoda ASS, but they haven't yet brought to my attention on the parts which needs to be replaced as part of the preventive maintenance.

I dont want to end up in the similar situation of the belt giving away, so will appreciate if the forum members can highlight on which are the critical parts which needs to be replacement as part of the preventive maintenance after the vehicle has reached 100k milestone.

[dip27in]

Originally Posted by amit_i

This is the nice thread specially for the Skoda Yeti owners who want to retain their vehicle for long long time. Wish we could have someone like Bhpian Dip27in nearby to assist us. My yeti has crossed 97k and has been regularly being services with Skoda ASS, but they haven't yet brought to my attention on the parts which needs to be replaced as part of the preventive maintenance.

For any car diagnostic, a part of the problem can be solved over remote communication, be it watsapp or chat or listening to the issue. A typical European car has umpteen number of fail safe loops which can keep the car running even with a warning light Check Engine. In critical conditions, which may damage the car or result in permanent failure, it shuts the engine, for example Oxygen sensor issue or a Wheel speed sensor failure of a particular wheel.



At workshop they believe in changing however I belong to the school, where I will try to introspect and work on the cause rather than the effect. A ABS sensor can throw errors simply because of brake dust or improper fitment or as simple as a washer. The list can go one.



Few days a bhpian from bangalore got in touch with me for a power steering pump leakage. As a vtec owner, I have faced this issue and instead of changing the entire pump ( which costs close to 27k INR) I replaced some O rings and oil seals ( costing 1/10th) which are easily available otherwise. I suggested him the same procedure and worked well as per our last communication.



Idea of the thread was to inculcate the idea of "listening to your car and do it yourself" rather than following a blind advise of Manufacturers with financial interest. It isnt a rocket science unless you make it look like one. I can flood this thread with umpteen number of examples on cars I own, especially a 2005 Vrs and 2004 E46, which hasn't seen a workshop till date.

[vgsr]

I am dumbstruck. I cannot imagine this work being a DIY. Fabulous !

I have a Chevrolet Captiva and the manual recommends a timing belt check and tightening at 75000 kms. The chevrolet service center wanted to replace the the belt, without even a check and I had refused. The car has now done about 115000 kms and is about 8.5 years old. Do u recommend a timing belt change as a routine maintenance ?

[Jeroen]

Great job, thanks for sharing. Interesting to see the tensioner being at fault here. It does make you wonder why it failed. Maybe you just got unlucky, it happens.

Just curious, what Autel scanner are you using and what is that you did with the scanner between the engine initially not starting and starting?

Unless you get yourself a top of the range Autel, scanners typically only read data, and have limited options to alter anything in the ECU, other than reset codes, reset service interval. (My Autel can also simulate a few system such as electronic brake)

True, these days most official service centres just rip and replace. In many cases, if you are able to trouble shoot a little deeper, you might be able to just do a simple repair. Certainly in the western world, the problem is one of cost and competence. Trouble shooting beyond the obvious (reading error codes and just replacing stuff) becomes very costly as hourly wages can be pretty steep. Also, not all technicians are that well verses in modern car trouble shooting.

Although, on many of the cars I am familiar with and have worked on the official workshop manuals tend to have quite elaborate trouble shoot guides, that will drill down a bit more then just rip and replace.

Even so, on my Jaguar one of the electrical connectors is broken, which means it tends to go in limp home mode. Jaguar solution is to replace the throttle body at a wopping cost of $ 2500. I just made a makeshift repair using a tiewrap to keep it in place. So far, touch wood, it has held for the last six months! Jaguar doesn't stock or sell the separate connectors. They have no other option than to replace the complete throttle body. Pretty ridiculous, but that is how these things work these days.

I have found a few online shops that sell similar connectors. So I will be ordering one and then probably spend several hours on replacing the connector. It is a very fiddly job. But it is a hell of lot more cost efficient.

Jeroen

[shankarbn]

Originally Posted by vgsr

I am dumbstruck. I cannot imagine this work being a DIY. Fabulous !

I have a Chevrolet Captiva and the manual recommends a timing belt check and tightening at 75000 kms. The chevrolet service center wanted to replace the the belt, without even a check and I had refused. The car has now done about 115000 kms and is about 8.5 years old. Do u recommend a timing belt change as a routine maintenance ?

Yes. You are literally living on borrowed time.

When changing timing belt at 115000 kms for the first time, please do not just tighten and check - the timing belt may look fine on visual inspection but crack open as you leave the service center, or worse. What you need is a replacement of belt, all tensioners and all the bolts. The tensioners may seem like overkill but they are really not. If the tensioner itself is expensive, you may choose to replace the bearings and pulley instead. The results of not replacing timing belts and tensioners will be nothing less than catastrophic. There are areas of your car which can be skimped with very few consequences, this is not one of those areas.

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by vgsr

I have a Chevrolet Captiva and the manual recommends a timing belt check and tightening at 75000 kms. The chevrolet service center wanted to replace the the belt, without even a check and I had refused. The car has now done about 115000 kms and is about 8.5 years old. Do u recommend a timing belt change as a routine maintenance ?

As Shankarbn already pointed out; Please stick, religiously, to the recommended service intervals when it comes to timing belts.

Truth is that, especially on belts, there is simple nothing you can check. When replaced at the recommended interval the belt will look near identical to a new belt, it will have virtually the same length too. So there are no visual clues really.

On some chain driven timing gear you might be able to check the wear of the timing chain by measuring how much the orientation of the cam shaft compared to the crankshaft has shifted. Even that, I would not trust. I would and have replaced timing chains well before I could see or measure wear.

The thing is that if it does snap, there is, on most engines, huge damage. So as pointed out, it is just not worth (my opinion) to postpone this.

To come back to your car, yes you are living on borrowed time. You might get lucky and it will last for another 10K, 30K kilometers, who knows. But it might also snap the next time you drive your car.

Jeroen

[vgsr]

Thank you shankarbn and Jeroen. I learnt something today. This whole thread has been very interesting and something one cannot find on any other fora.
I will take your advice and have this done soonest, and report back.

[Thad E Ginathom]

Originally Posted by dip27in

This is one such case of a car, a Skoda Yeti. It belongs to a friend of a BHPian.

Masterful work, and masterful storytelling!

[dip27in]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Just curious, what Autel scanner are you using and what is that you did with the scanner between the engine initially not starting and starting?

Unless you get yourself a top of the range Autel, scanners typically only read data, and have limited options to alter anything in the ECU, other than reset codes, reset service interval. (My Autel can also simulate a few system such as electronic brake)
Jeroen

Thanks a lot Sir for taking time on this thread. I Use maxisys Pro MS908P, which handles most of the issues plus some coding if I wish to. I read the issues with basic autel hence waited till I could afford the one which can handle most of my requirements. It however fails to decode Indian cars like Mahindra and Suzuki, however with an update, throws of the fault code like any basic scanner.


If I drill down to the basic reason why it failed, probably there has been a design failure in this batch of yeti ( starting from 2009 to 2012) which was evident from the Tensioner bearing design on later model. The spring adjusting mechanism probably was placed too close without keeping in mind of the repeated heating and cooling factor of a cramped engine, especially in Indian scenario.
I have seen such updates on unreliable design issues even in my vrs, which occassionaly failed to start due to temperature sender. The car is otherwise brilliantly engineered but the problems are magnified by Service centre, since they hit the effect more often than listening to the car.

The most immaculate thing I have seen in couple of service centres till date, is the workshop manual! They really maintain it and never even allows it to see daylight even under pressing circumstances. Most of the service guy rely on their senses and allow their senses to be driven by financial aspects, largely!