[kunalsingh]

Originally Posted by OSH

This advise needs to be followed to the T. Just the other day, I read a post somewhere on our forum where an owner filled a thicker grade; 10w40 oil in his 3rd gen Honda City. The indian models came with 5w30 from factory AFAIK. One more reason why sticking to the ASC is good.

Hi OSH, that owner might very well have been me
However, me choosing 10W-40 over 5W-30 was an informed decision because of two reasons :

1. These are the official grade of oils recommend by Honda for my particular car (this is a picture of my owner's manual) :




2. As you can see, the difference between grades of oil lies in their viscosity levels while operating at different temperatures. Between 5W-30 and 10W-40, the first numbers 5 and 10 show the viscosity of the oil at low temperatures while the last digits 30 and 40 show the viscosity of the oil at high temperatures.
The "W" in between stands for winter, meaning - the viscosity at which the oil will be able to flow when the car starts (cold start) or is running in cold conditions.

5W-30 will be able to flow better when the temperature is low. So at a lower temperature, it will be the best oil to protect the engine. This is for engines running in cold places which see longer winter seasons.

However at high temperatures, the 5W-30 oil becomes thinner than 10W-40 since 30 < 40. Conversely, 10W-40 will be able to hold onto the engine parts better than the 5W-30 at higher temperatures as it becomes thicker when the engine is running during hot weather conditions.
In a place like Delhi where summers last for over 8 months (with temperatures soaring over 50 degrees Celsius), a 10W-40 engine oil makes more sense.


Another point is - Thinner motor oils (5W30) provide less friction to the engine which result in an increase in fuel economy. Car manufacturers will always recommend such thinner oils for this reason. However over a period of time, this might result in an increase in engine wear and tear. Let me explain :

When an engine keeps on rotating with the cylinders moving in and out of the engine block (over a period of time), it creates wear and reduces the engine lifespan as the engine keeps on developing more gaps between the parts which are in motion. When you use a thicker oil such as 10w40, you'll be able to provide the parts with more lubrication which will be able to compensate for the excess wear and tear in older engines (like my 11+ year old car).
Many mechanics who are experienced will recommend you to shift to a velocity which is higher when it comes to motor oil as the engine becomes older in order to compensate for these imperfections.

Hence, going for a 10W-40 engine oil was an informed decision on my part (hot weather, age of car, higher viscosity of oil). Hope this helps!

[TheGearBox]

Originally Posted by OSH

A bad clutch should not make a 'thud' sound, are you sure its the clutch and not your engine mounts ?

I don't think the clutch is worn out as it hasn't become hard and has plenty of bite.

The owner of the garage I visited messaged again with the following:
Strut RR both sides- 1200
Balance rod bush RR- 400

Should I even bother asking what this means? Because I am no longer keen on giving my car to them.

[OSH]

Originally Posted by kunalsingh

Hi OSH, that owner might very well have been me

Hi, all I remember is that it was a white City which was painted and serviced. Tried finding that thread but couldn't locate it in the ownership reviews section. If it was yours, has it been moved elsewhere ?

These are the official grade of oils recommend by Honda for my particular car

I have a 3rd gen City facelift myself and am aware of this chart however one point of consideration has to be that our cars are international models and hence different regions(countries) may be getting different grades of oil filled from the factory depending on their driving conditions and climate temperatures.

If you read my post again; I have not mentioned that this is a wrong grade of oil for our engine. I have just mentioned that is a thicker grade than what Honda has used for our cars.

I have a few reservations on the below quoted points keeping in mind what I was told by a very old/senior engine rebuild specialist of my ASC few years back. This talk was when Honda was moving on from 5w30 to 0w20.

5W-30 will be able to flow better when the temperature is low. So at a lower temperature, it will be the best oil to protect the engine. This is for engines running in cold places which see longer winter seasons.

While you are right about the ambient temperatures, another important aspect which has been missed out is how easily the oil has to get pumped throughout the engine when you cold start (first start of the day). As you must be aware, a lot of wear and tear occurs during startup because the oil over-night settles down in the sump and very little oil remains elsewhere. When you crank the engine in this condition, it is very important that the oil reaches all the places very easily and quickly. I am told, an oil with a lower viscosity will be better in this regard.

10W-40 will be able to hold onto the engine parts better than the 5W-30 at higher temperatures as it becomes thicker when the engine is running during hot weather conditions.

I just hope that the source of this information is trustworthy because using lower viscosity oils has become a trend across manufacturers round the world and while one reason is FE, the other is how engines are built today. Tight tolerances on the inside will demand for thinner oils so I am not sure if changing to a thicker grade is the best thing to do. Just considering the ambient temperatures may not be the best way to choose a grade of oil.

Many mechanics who are experienced will recommend you to shift to a velocity which is higher when it comes to motor oil as the engine becomes older in order to compensate for these imperfections.

I have personally never read/heard of this nor has anyone told me this till date. I have a '07 City with over 115k kms on the clock and face no such problems after sticking to the same grade of oil. If this was true, wouldn't the manufacturers be the first ones to mention this in the manual ?

Gone are the days when engines were built that way. Modern engines have such tight tolerances that nowadays so many manufacturers don't even care about running-in a new engine. Not to mention today's engines go strong for lakhs and lakhs of kms without needing a rebuild if taken care of.

going for a 10W-40 engine oil was an informed decision on my part

I happened to mention this so that someone reading that post should not assume that 10w40 is the oil grade that Honda is using in the City. Hope you have not taken it in the wrong sense. As a fellow City owner, I loved how you have given your car a new lease of life. Really liked it.

Originally Posted by TheGearBox

I don't think the clutch is worn out as it hasn't become hard and has plenty of bite.

If you are on a steep incline and change gears, do you feel a heavy jolt ?

Should I even bother asking what this means ?

Strut RR both sides- 1200
Balance rod bush RR- 400

The strut is a suspension component which can be found inside the coil spring. This is what gives you the dampening effect. You will be able to see them even without removing the tyres. By 'RR' he means rear according to me. So in short he is telling you that both the rear struts have to be replaced.

The balance rod, I think is the street name for the stabilizer bar or anti-roll bar which is again a part of the suspension. The 'RR' again most probably means rear. If at all you go ahead with this repair, do it from a very reputed place as it is not a easy job. You can very much land yourself in an accident if this component is not repaired/replaced correctly following the correct procedure. This bush he is talking about will be part of some 'kit', if its not Honda genuine stay away.

Because I am no longer keen on giving my car to them.

Take the car to the ASC for service and get the works estimate first. It is FOC with regular servicing AFAIK.

Only one thing I did not understand is, if your FNG found the problem components to be at the rear, why are you getting noises while turning the steering wheel.

[kunalsingh]

Originally Posted by OSH

Hi, all I remember is that it was a white City which was painted and serviced. Tried finding that thread but couldn't locate it in the ownership reviews section......


....
I happened to mention this so that someone reading that post should not assume that 10w40 is the oil grade that Honda is using in the City. Hope you have not taken it in the wrong sense. As a fellow City owner, I loved how you have given your car a new lease of life. Really liked it.
.

Dear OSH, thanks for writing in. I do agree with your points as they quite valid. I'm sorry for the confusion. Also, you're right about Honda shifting over from 0W-20 to 5W-30.

Also attaching the link to my thread (it has been moved to the Technical section now) : https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post4923141 (Hondu: Restoring my 3rd-gen '09 Honda City)

[OSH]

Originally Posted by kunalsingh

Also, you're right about Honda shifting over from 0W-20 to 5W-30.

Its actually the other way round. 5w30 was their mineral oil which had a change interval of 5000kms/3months whichever earlier and then they shifted to 0w20 which they claim to be fully synthetic having a change interval of 10000kms/6months whichever is earlier.

Till our 3rd gen of the City it was 5w30 and then 0w20 started coming in the 4th gen. Brand they used was Idemitsu's 0w20.

Also attaching the link to my thread (it has been moved to the Technical section now) : https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/techn...ml#post4923141 (Hondu: Restoring my 3rd-gen '09 Honda City)

Thanks. I was searching the wrong section all this time. I wanted to show your thread to a friend of mine who was keen on painting his car but had his doubts if it was worth it. I am sure he will make up his mind after seeing the before 'n' after pictures of your car.

[arindambasu13]

Originally Posted by TheGearBox

There are no leaks, but the ride has become a bit bouncy.

The roads have been pretty bad for the greater part of the year and I pass through a bunch of bad patches on my daily route. Is 30k km really too early? Because the car is 8 years old...

My 8+ year old Brio is also a very low mileage car, having bee the second car in the family (just done 34000 kms in 8 years). The suspension on the car is also in a pretty bad state, with every bump and pebble on the road being transmitted through the seat of the passengers' pants I am holding out for any major suspension repairs since the car is likely on its way out of the garage in the next couple of months. The ride quality has indeed become very bad though. The main reason behind this is the state of Bangalore roads and my daily route being through some of the worst road patches in the city, with massive potholes and bumps which the Brio has to tackle on a daily basis.

As a side note, I must say that with a bit of careful driving, the little Brio has handled these absolutely terrible roads like a champ. Other than the bad ride quality, the car has been a totally trouble-free city go kart. For a second car, or city runabout, I still feel that the Brio was one of the best cars in the Indian market, given its size, zippy nature and awesome though quirky design.

[TheGearBox]

Originally Posted by OSH

If you are on a steep incline and change gears, do you feel a heavy jolt ?

No, nothing like that.

Originally Posted by OSH

The strut is a suspension component which can be found inside the coil spring.

Yes, I know that. My question was whether I should bother getting back to them at all.

Originally Posted by OSH

Take the car to the ASC for service and get the works estimate first. It is FOC with regular servicing AFAIK.

Next step I will take.

Originally Posted by OSH

Only one thing I did not understand is, if your FNG found the problem components to be at the rear, why are you getting noises while turning the steering wheel.

They seem to be of the opinion that I need to change both front and rear components.

Originally Posted by arindambasu13

the car is likely on its way out of the garage in the next couple of months.

This might be true in my case as well. But nothing is decided as yet. Either way, I prefer getting the issue resolved so that I can have a stress-free ownership for whatever time I have left with the car. Also, no point in selling a car in less-than-ideal condition and taking a hit on resale value.

[TheGearBox]

Update 13/11/2020:

Interestingly, the squeaks seem to have vanished. I have not heard them all week. The only noise the car is making now is a groan from the steering while taking a right turn.

So I took the car to Honda today for servicing and also with the intention of getting the suspension checked.

The diagnosis from a visual inspection of the suspension was that it has become weak, but in order to do a proper inspection they would have to remove the entire assembly, which would take an entire day. I was not keen on spending the whole day there and I also did not want to leave the car there for the next two days (Diwali and Sunday) during which no work would be done on it so I asked them to just do the servicing and I would make another visit for the suspension.

They returned the car with a nice big scratch on the front, but that's a story for another time. The result of taking the car on Friday the 13th, perhaps?

[Rama Kumara]

Originally Posted by TheGearBox

Update 13/11/2020:

Interestingly, the squeaks seem to have vanished. I have not heard them all week. The only noise the car is making now is a groan from the steering while taking a right turn.

So I took the car to Honda today for servicing and also with the intention of getting the suspension checked.

The diagnosis from a visual inspection of the suspension was that it has become weak, but in order to do a proper inspection they would have to remove the entire assembly, which would take an entire day. I was not keen on spending the whole day there and I also did not want to leave the car there for the next two days (Diwali and Sunday) during which no work would be done on it so I asked them to just do the servicing and I would make another visit for the suspension.

They returned the car with a nice big scratch on the front, but that's a story for another time. The result of taking the car on Friday the 13th, perhaps?

Did you get work done on suspension? If yes, what parts??

[TheGearBox]

Originally Posted by Rama Kumara

Did you get work done on suspension? If yes, what parts??

No. I did not get any work done yet, I'm living with the groans. Honestly, the sounds are not much of a bother and so I haven't done anything about them. There was also a possibility of the Brio being sold to make way for a new car, but that purchase has been pushed ahead for now.
Since the car will be around for a while longer, I will get the work done on the suspension some time soon. Will update this thread when it is done.

[1985Darkkid85]

Originally Posted by TheGearBox

No. I did not get any work done yet, I'm living with the groans. Honestly, the sounds are not much of a bother and so I haven't done anything about them. There was also a possibility of the Brio being sold to make way for a new car, but that purchase has been pushed ahead for now.
Since the car will be around for a while longer, I will get the work done on the suspension some time soon. Will update this thread when it is done.

Any further updates on the state of your suspension?

The back suspension in my Honda Brio has become a little bouncy and problem needs to be changed!

The only difference being the fact that my vehicle has approximately run 99,000 km as of date!