[CosmicGeneral]

Great thread!

I'm not sure if this has been answered through this thread, but would like to understand the usage within Automatics , specifically Diesel Torque converters .

Would the same usage pattern suggestion work for the 1.5L & higher engines with torque converts ?

[sbm]

Originally Posted by CosmicGeneral

Great thread!

I'm not sure if this has been answered through this thread, but would like to understand the usage within Automatics , specifically Diesel Torque converters .

Would the same usage pattern suggestion work for the 1.5L & higher engines with torque converts ?

I think automatic transmission will better prevent soot generation by avoiding lugging, which can easily happen in the case of manual transmission. In case the driving cycle does not allow active regeneration and forced regeneration is needed, in cars with a park regen facility, it won't matter if it's manual or automatic. On the other hand, if the car has to be driven at high rpm to regenerate, it can be done by putting the auto transmission in manual mode. Overall, I don't see any effect of the type of transmission on DPF regeneration.

[Revvatron]

Hi everyone,
After going through this thread what I understood is mileage drops around 3-4 kmpl during passive regen. I recently did a trip to my hometown which is around 420 kms and the same amount while returning. It was completely highway run. I didn't notice any difference in mileage, it was always around 23-24 kmpl. Now am wondering whether the passive regen happened at all or maybe because of continuous highway run the soot didn't deposit enough to trigger any regen. Appreciate any input in this

[escape velocity]

Originally Posted by ninjanayak

So post your questions below and lets learn

Hi

As you seem to be well versed with the working of BS-VI diesel engines. I 'll appreciate, if you look in to my case and answer following queries:

I have a Ford Freestyle Diesel 2020 model car. There were no issues till 8,700 kms. Then I went for 1st recall and started getting DPF warning after every 400-500 kms and each time I had to visit FASS to get the filter cleaned.

I went for 2nd recall at 13,637 kms but the DPF warning has again come up at 14863 kms. The car has done about 15,170 kms and the warning has progressed from 'Overloaded' to 'At Limit'.


Meanwhile, I also bought a bluetooth OBD scanner to monitor DPF soot/Pressure percentages, and, it is these numbers which I would like you to clarify:

At 14,754/- kms the DPF Soot was 100% and DPF load was 103% but I did not get any DPF warning.Then, after a few days I went on a drive and at 14,770/- kms, the filter started cleaning.It continued till 14785 kms. and then stopped although I kept on driving.The DPF soot dropped to 63% and DPF load dropped to 45%.

After, a few days I went on a drive and got a DPF warning at 14,836 kms. (1st time post 2nd recall). The DPF soot was 86% and DPF pressure 72%.

In this regard I have following queries:

1. Why I did not get any DPF warning when the DPF soot was 100 % and DPF pressure was 103 % but got a 'overloaded' warning when soot and pressure percentages were much lower at 86% and 72%, respectively?
2. Why the cleaning stopped at DPF soot 63% and load 72%.Should not it continued until the level dropped to zero.
3. Is this, really, an issue of the DPF getting choked, or, is it some kind of a software issue. In other words, the DPF is not chocked but some software bug is causing faulty DPF warning to be displayed?
4. At what DPF soot and DPF pressure percentage, the DPF really get blocked?
5. Does NOx level also block DPF filter even if Soot level is low?
6. Shall I also raise this issue with FORD? Will they offer any solution other than doing active regeneration?

I may also add that I do not go on short drives and maintain around 2000 rpm.

I understand these are a lot of queries but please spare some time.

Regards

[balenoed_]

Got a DPF Regen warning on my 2020 Scorpio BS6.

Having a highway drive coming up. Will that highway drive be able to get rid of it or should I go to a service center now and get it done manually? Any thoughts? What if I rely on option 1 - highway drive and it doesn't go off? Will it further cause any issues?

[Revvatron]

Originally Posted by balenoed_

Got a DPF Regen warning on my 2020 Scorpio BS6.

Having a highway drive coming up. Will that highway drive be able to get rid of it or should I go to a service center now and get it done manually? Any thoughts? What if I rely on option 1 - highway drive and it doesn't go off? Will it further cause any issues?

If the warning light has not started to blink then the highway drive should clear it up given you are driving it in recommended conditions which is 3rd gear at 2k rpm for 20 mins, assuming this is what your manual for Scorpio says. But my personal suggestion would be to get it clear in the service center just to be on safe side. Usually we can clear it by spirited driving as long as the dpf warning doesn't start to blink. My manual says take it to service center once it starts to blink, otherwise drive it in spirited manner(3rd gear/2k rpm).

If your drive does not clear the soot deposit then the car might go into limp mode and risk stranding you on the road. So better be on safe side.

[humyum]

So Let me mention my experience of DPF on my 2022 October Diesel 2.4 Automatic Innova.

First 1000 km, it used to come clockwork every 250-280 max

Then the duration started extending a bit as kilometers piled on. On the trip to Munnar as the ghats went on for 3 hours with the odo at some 2500 km odd, for the first time I saw the DPF bar at 5 points and still no regeneration for sometime until it kicked in and took some half an hour of regeneration for it to get down to 0, this was at the altitude which Munnar is at.

During our entire 7 day stay there, it never kicked in. We must have done some 150-170 odd kilometers during our stay there.

From 5000 km onwards I started noticing the DPF kicking later than its usual km and neither was the bar at anything more than 3 whenever it kicked in. Infact, I remember once I took her for a blip to Lonavala and it was showing 3 on the expressway and I had some fun with the car in power mode and without DPF regen starting, it dropped to 2.

Now the car is 90% used on the highway or in the night on empty roads and its regenerating at around the 500 km mark, the car is at 8000 km

[ninjanayak]

Sorry about the really late reply, as I have professionally moved on to a different area I can no longer actively reply to all your questions. I will try my best to frequently participate in this thread. Sorry for the inconvenience.
Coming to your questions

Originally Posted by escape velocity

Why I did not get any DPF warning when the DPF soot was 100 % and DPF pressure was 103 % but got a 'overloaded' warning when soot and pressure percentages were much lower at 86% and 72%, respectively?

As I have previously stated, DPF regen requires suitable conditions to start (exhaust temp, driving behavior etc.), maybe the software didnt think regen was possible the first time and didn't warn you. Possibly the conditions were suitable in the latter case and since the DPF was roughly full (86%) the software decided to perform regen.
Maybe next time when similar scenario arises you observe the driving behavior and exhaust temp on your scanner.

Why the cleaning stopped at DPF soot 63% and load 72%.Should not it continued until the level dropped to zero.

Generally DPF regen stops when 80-85% soot is burnt in the DPF (in good conditions), since the rate at which soot burns decreases exponentially to decreasing soot.
Just as there are conditions to start regen in the software, there are conditions to continue regen. In your case maybe the conditions to continue regen were no longer present. Similar to the previous answer maybe make a note of the driving behavior and exhaust temp on your scanner during this particular event.

Is this, really, an issue of the DPF getting choked, or, is it some kind of a software issue. In other words, the DPF is not chocked but some software bug is causing faulty DPF warning to be displayed?

Shouldn't be a major problem since this is after two recalls according to the information you provided, they might have sorted out almost all issues.

At what DPF soot and DPF pressure percentage, the DPF really get blocked?

This is different for every model decided by the OEM, generally 100% is the threshold to perform auto regen.

Does NOx level also block DPF filter even if Soot level is low?

No, higher NOx is generally good for DPF as there will be passive regen.

Originally Posted by balenoed_

Got a DPF Regen warning on my 2020 Scorpio BS6.

Having a highway drive coming up. Will that highway drive be able to get rid of it or should I go to a service center now and get it done manually? Any thoughts? What if I rely on option 1 - highway drive and it doesn't go off? Will it further cause any issues?

The highway drive should clear the DPF up.

Originally Posted by humyum

So Let me mention my experience of DPF on my 2022 October Diesel 2.4 Automatic Innova.

First 1000 km, it used to come clockwork every 250-280 max

Then the duration started extending a bit as kilometers piled on. On the trip to Munnar as the ghats went on for 3 hours with the odo at some 2500 km odd, for the first time I saw the DPF bar at 5 points and still no regeneration for sometime until it kicked in and took some half an hour of regeneration for it to get down to 0, this was at the altitude which Munnar is at.

During our entire 7 day stay there, it never kicked in. We must have done some 150-170 odd kilometers during our stay there.

From 5000 km onwards I started noticing the DPF kicking later than its usual km and neither was the bar at anything more than 3 whenever it kicked in. Infact, I remember once I took her for a blip to Lonavala and it was showing 3 on the expressway and I had some fun with the car in power mode and without DPF regen starting, it dropped to 2.

Now the car is 90% used on the highway or in the night on empty roads and its regenerating at around the 500 km mark, the car is at 8000 km

Uphill driving is very beneficial to the DPF as the engine is under heavy load, the energy in the exhaust is very high. This clears up the soot. Similar in the highway, the energy in the exhaust is high clearing up the soot.

[dj96]

Hello ninjanayak,

Thank you for starting this thread. My question is that what is the life of a DPF if it runs perfectly? I have seen figures around 100000 to 150000 kilometers.

If this is true then it will greatly reduce the resale value of bs6 diesels and also increase ownership costs for people (like me) who like to keep their car for a very long time.

[vamship]

Hi,

I have been facing frequent DPF issues(every 300 KMs) on my KIA Sonet Diesel Manual, even though 80% of the running is on Highways.

I took the vehicle to the service centre one month ago, they checked and said everything is fine and just did parking regeneration and cleaned the sensors. One counter on the KIA OBD application was "Total Regeneration Demand Counter " with value as "255".

can someone with more technical knowledge let me know what that counter means, as the service centre guys are not really knoledgable.

[ron82x3]

Originally Posted by ninjanayak

Sorry about the really late reply, as I have professionally moved on to a different area I can no longer actively reply to all your questions

Hi Nilanjan. I want to understand what is the easiest way to delete a DPF system in my car such as EcoSport.

Can I physically break and remove the Filter inside the DPF and flash a BS4 code? What things I need to be careful about.

From my understanding, deleting the honeycomb filter inside the DPF will never allow backpressure to build in the system.
And a BS4 code will ensure the system never checks for the sensors for DPF and neither tries to dump Diesel fuel in the system.

I acknowledge a more elegant way would be to purchase a DPF delete kit and perform a BS4 remap.

Can anyone confirm if anyone has tried this before?

[ninjanayak]

Originally Posted by dj96

Hello ninjanayak,

If this is true then it will greatly reduce the resale value of bs6 diesels and also increase ownership costs for people (like me) who like to keep their car for a very long time.

Its generally somewhere around 160000kms. If you want to use the car after that, you could just replace the old dpf system with a new one. A qualified dealer should be able to do it. The dealer will have a ECU tester software with a routine to notify the ECU that a new DPF has been fitted.

Originally Posted by vamship

Hi,

I have been facing frequent DPF issues(every 300 KMs) on my KIA Sonet Diesel Manual, even though 80% of the running is on Highways.

I took the vehicle to the service centre one month ago, they checked and said everything is fine and just did parking regeneration and cleaned the sensors. One counter on the KIA OBD application was "Total Regeneration Demand Counter " with value as "255".

can someone with more technical knowledge let me know what that counter means, as the service centre guys are not really knoledgable.

300kms seems fairly reasonable, maybe slightly on the lower side. If you face no other problems, the car should be okay.

Originally Posted by ron82x3

Hi Nilanjan. I want to understand what is the easiest way to delete a DPF system in my car such as EcoSport.

Can I physically break and remove the Filter inside the DPF and flash a BS4 code? What things I need to be careful about.

From my understanding, deleting the honeycomb filter inside the DPF will never allow backpressure to build in the system.
And a BS4 code will ensure the system never checks for the sensors for DPF and neither tries to dump Diesel fuel in the system.

I acknowledge a more elegant way would be to purchase a DPF delete kit and perform a BS4 remap.

Can anyone confirm if anyone has tried this before?

As I mentioned in a reply some time back, please do very thorough research before doing this. BS6 powertrains are not just BS4 engines+ BS6 exhaust in most cases. There could be changes to the combustion chamber, fuel system (pump, injector, rail pressures), turbocharger, wiring harness, sensor placement etc. while migrating from BS4 to BS6, so a BS4 tune may not work on a BS6 engine after you remove the DPF. Please exercise caution before doing this to prevent damage, also doing this is illegal.

[sbm]

Originally Posted by sbm

Hello @ninjanayak. Thanks for this detailed thread on dpf issue. I am planning to replace my 6yr old Baleno with a new compact SUV and considering the Creta and the Harrier. I want to buy the diesel version (Harrier is of cousre only diesel) for the fun to drive factor but I am not sure if my driving routine can prevent dpf clogging. Let me summarize my car usage and please bear with me as I am trying to make it as detail as possible.

Diesel mixing with engine oil (XUV700 diesel)

Hello @ninjanayak. First of all, thanks for your participation in this thread despite your busy schedule. After thorough research about BS6 diesels and after taking into account that I may have to face a DPF choke warning sometimes, I brought home a XUV700 diesel manual in July 2022. In almost a year of ownership, with 18000km on the odo, I haven't received any DPF choke warnings (completely in line with your opinion on my driving pattern), and the car has been running flawlessly. I have described my driving pattern in the above-quoted post.
Recently, I checked the engine oil level in my car and was surprised to see that it was way above the upper level mark. I got the oil changed at 10000km (2nd service), and they had filled 6 litres of oil then. The next day, I took the car to a Mahindra service centre, where they drained the engine oil. It came out to be a little over 7 litres. According to the service supervisor (Cotek, as they call them in Mahindra), this was due to regen taking place and diesel getting mixed with engine oil during the regen process.He said that a 1-1.5L rise in engine oil level during a period of 10k kms is normal, and they have seen this in other BS6 diesel Mahindra cars. I also talked to another Cotek in a different city and a senior technician who is the head of the Coteks. They all have the same opinion. Also, it's not only my car; I have confirmed from other XUV owners that they too have the same issue.Now my question is:
1) Is this really normal? Mixing of diesel in engine oil during regen? I have read that this is in fact due to an aborted regeneration process due to frequent short trips. If this is the case with me, i.e., if my driving pattern has a lot of short trips and regen is getting aborted frequently, why haven't I gotten a DPF warning yet?
2) Even if this is permissible, won't the diesel-mixed engine oil affect engine life? Is BS6 diesel engine oil designed to take this mixing into account?
3) Even if it is so, the total quantity of oil should not be over the maximum mark in any engine; should then engine oil be filled taking into account the amount of diesel that might get into it during the next 10k km?

[sbm]

Update after last post

DPF clogging after software update

During my last visit to the service centre (for the quoted issue), they did an EMS software update, supposedly to tackle the issue of diesel mixing in engine oil due to an aborted regeneration process. After that, I have been facing DPF-clogged errors, which I never faced in the last 17800 km. The first one was just after my visit at 17841 km, and another one today at 18008km. Is anyone facing this kind of problem? I think to solve one issue, they tweaked the software and created another issue. This reminds me of the problem faced by the initial Ecosport BS6 diesel owners.

Mods, please merge this post with my last post if possible.

[arj2695]

Originally Posted by sbm

Diesel mixing with engine oil (XUV700 diesel)


1) Is this really normal? Mixing of diesel in engine oil during regen? I have read that this is in fact due to an aborted regeneration process due to frequent short trips. If this is the case with me, i.e., if my driving pattern has a lot of short trips and regen is getting aborted frequently, why haven't I gotten a DPF warning yet?
2) Even if this is permissible, won't the diesel-mixed engine oil affect engine life? Is BS6 diesel engine oil designed to take this mixing into account?
3) Even if it is so, the total quantity of oil should not be over the maximum mark in any engine; should then engine oil be filled taking into account the amount of diesel that might get into it during the next 10k km?

The phenomenon of fuel mixing with oil is called Oil Dilution. It is perfectly fine until the viscosity of the oil is not going below the specified limit (how much oil can get diluted is tested and found out by OE)

It is perfectly normal for Diesel to mix with engine oil. The method employed in XUV 700 to remove soot from the DPF is by injecting diesel during the exhaust stroke where the fuel (HC) with go to Oxidation Catalyst and gets oxidized, which increases the temperature in DPF, which will burn the soot particles accumulated there. As diesel is injected during the exhaust stroke, there is a possibility for the fuel to mix with the oil.

But, there are some vehicles, were a separate injector is used which directly injected fuel onto the exhaust gas (HC Doser), in this case fuel mixing with the oil is very limited.

I am not sure how the dip-stick is calibrated (designed) to take this phenomenon into account.

Please do PM me if you have any other questions regarding this.

Thanks.