[chiranjitp]

Originally Posted by Sourav@1977

Hello everyone,
I own a maruti esteem 2002 petrol model. Now the engine is very peppy and almost in new condition but the rising fuel prices is now worrying me and I am seriously thinking of modifying the gearbox to lower the fifth gear ratio from .79 to around .65 - .7.

First of all nice to see someone holding on an Esteem even now . Regarding your query, Esteem already has a very tall gearing (by petrol standard). 100kmph comes at around 2500RPM, which is even lower than something like the Ciaz 1.5P (2700RPM at 100). So, I wouldn't suggest making the tall gearing even more taller.

[Maverick Avi]

Boy oh boy. So much so for fuel efficiency. I wonder how much better you can get with your plans and would it be really worth the time and effort. I really get amazed by people who hold on to their cars. I usually sell off my cars at 10 years(Marutis) as post that the chances of their parts failing gets much higher and I cannot stand even one instance of getting stranded.

2-3 kmpl of fuel efficiency can easily be attained by deploying various methods already mentioned by fellow bhpians. I myself have attained insane numbers from 1.2l K12 engine and lot depends on driving style too. Beyond this I would never think of tinkering with engine or gearboxes. Kudos to you to even plan for getting into something like this. CNG option seems the most practical idea to me.

[Sourav@1977]

Originally Posted by Maverick Avi

Boy oh boy. So much so for fuel efficiency.

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

A quick search on Boodmo website shows that the 5th gear pair is same on Esteem 1.3L petrol and 1.5L diesel. The part numbers are:
24351-64B51: Gear, countershaft, 5th.
24114-64B51: Gear input shaft, 5th.

Today I asked my mechanic for a 15" rim as a replacement for present 13" but the wheel well did not accommodate the same. I will try for 14" swift day after tomorrow.

[PSM_360]

Originally Posted by Sourav@1977

Today I asked my mechanic for a 15" rim as a replacement for present 13" but the wheel well did not accommodate the same. I will try for 14" swift day after tomorrow.

Sourav, good to see that you too are curious to play around with gear ratios as I was at some time, 5-6 years back. I remember myself listing down the gear ratios of most Indian cars in my database.

As far as Esteem's gear ratios, believe me, it is one of the tallest geared cars I have seen, many here have already mentioned this. If you further somehow reduce it (say 3.5ish to 3.3ish), it will be an extra effort for car at slow speeds. Having 6th gear is always an added bonus. Imagine starting off a bicycle in higher gear, your legs will complain. Remember that it is the load we put on engine that takes away fuel economy, be it hauling heavy load or sudden acceleration. Modern cars with live fuel economy on MID teach us a lot . I am sure you will find a summary of good driving practices to boost fuel economy in some thread here.

For tyres, sadly 155/80R13 are already quite big for the wheel well. In international markets, 155/70R13 came on this 'Swift' . You might be able to go with Baleno's 165/80R13. Don't go wider as you are after fuel efficiency. If you find Chevy Optra, Toyota Qualis 14" wheels, go for 165/70R14 tyres. For 15", look for 1st gen Honda Accord, Chevy Optra Magnum, Mitsubishi Cedia wheels with 175/60R15 tyres. You might have to increase hub diameter of Chevy wheels to fit on an Esteem.
Please note that 195/65R15 won't fit as I have tried fitting 195/60R15 tyres from my Cedia and they were fouling on left right turns.


Thanks,
PSM_360

[Sourav@1977]

Originally Posted by PSM_360

Sourav, good to see that you too are curious to play around with gear ratios as I was at some time, 5-6 years back. I remember myself listing down the gear ratios of most Indian cars in my database.

This is a very informative indeed.
Please let me know whether the engine will heat more if I escalate my tyres size from 13" to 14".
Previously I upgraded the premier 138D from 13" to 14" size and found the engine temperature needle to head northwards.

Originally Posted by chiranjitp

First of all nice to see someone holding on an Esteem even now . Regarding your query, Esteem already has a very tall gearing (by petrol standard). 100kmph comes at around 2500RPM, which is even lower than something like the Ciaz 1.5P (2700RPM at 100). So, I wouldn't suggest making the tall gearing even more taller.

You are right.
But I wish it could do 80kmph at 1600rpm instead of 2000

[landcruiser123]

Originally Posted by Sourav@1977

You are right bro..
But I wish it could do 80kmph at 1600rpm instead of 2000

The problem with doing 80 kmph @ 1600 RPM (instead of 2000RPM) is that the engine will have low torque to execute in-gear overtakes or tackle gentle slopes. You may find yourself pressing the A-pedal harder or downshifting more often, thus negating all the benefits of having a taller 5th gear.

Case in point: I drive a Ford Fusion (175 bhp) with a 6AT. At 80mph (2500 RPM), I can overtake most cases without any downshifts. My friends Camry (203 bhp) with an 8AT cruises at 80mph at a lower 2000 RPM; For most overtakes, the Camry will downshift a few gears as it lacks torque to overtake in the same gear.

[Swapnil4585]

Following this thread closely.

100 km/h @ 2500 rpm from a 1300 cc car is always better than 100 km/h @ 28xx rpm from an 1800 cc engine.

A very basic and simple step would be to start from shifting to a nice synthetic engine and gearbox oil and then may be a K-N filter.

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by Sourav@1977

You are right bro..
But I wish it could do 80kmph at 1600rpm instead of 2000

As other members have pointed out, we shall not expect this for this car.

Doing 100 KMPH at 1600 rpm instead of 2500 rpm will need surplus torque capacity of 56% in stock condition. This is simply unlikely. The engine may have 10 - 15% excess torque capacity (above the demand for your usual usage). But not 56%.

I have seen high end cars doing 100 KMPH at 1800 rpm. But they had big powerful engine having tremendous torque for their weight. And of course, it was diesel. The supposed FE gains from doing 100 KMPH at 1800 rpm were still offset by the bigger displacement of the engine.

Unfortunately tyre upsize also seems to have space constraints. So this leaves you with the other alternatives suggested by the fellow members:

1. CNG kit for lower cost / km
2. Looking at wheel bearings.
3. Better engine oil and gear oil.
4. Driving for best possible FE. Enough anticipation, proper speeds, gear change at proper rpm.

[Sourav@1977]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

As other members have pointed out, we shall not expect this for this car.

Today I went outstation with my family for 100+ km ride along NH19 and we noticed a strange wobbling sound from the tyres at 80kmph. While coming back I checked with my mechanic. As assumed the culprit is ball bearings. Took an appointment on Sunday.
I think SKF bearing is a good replacement.
Engine oil is due after 1700 km which will be done in March. This time I will switch to synthetic as suggested by senior BHPians.

Mod Note: Please avoid quoting the entire post when responding.

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by Sourav@1977

Today I went outstation with my family for 100+ km ride along NH19 and we noticed a strange wobbling sound from the tyres at 80kmph. While coming back I checked with my mechanic. As assumed the culprit is ball bearings. Took an appointment on Sunday.
I think SKF bearing is a good replacement.
Engine oil is due after 1700 km which will be done in March. This time I will switch to synthetic as suggested by senior BHPians.

Just buy the bearing from Maruti Suzuki Genuine Spares. These bearings aren't standard like those in the two wheelers. So we can't choose the make. But the genuine spares shall be good.

In my M800 days, I had experienced that the local mechanics sometimes buy inferior quality aftermarket spares and charge you for the genuine spares. As far as possible, buy the spares yourself and give those to the mechanic. If the mechanic buys the spares, check those and their packings frankly without feeling awkward.

Since you are replacing the bearings, have a good look at shock absorbers and suspension components. Especially the lower arm, stabilizer bushes, link rods, drive shafts, CV joint boots. Also look at the steering rack for any signs of wear / play. I am suggesting to check so many parts looking at very high mileage of your Esteem. If you have already been checking and maintaining these, then fine.

After suspension work, always go for the wheel alignment and balancing.

You have changed the engine recently. If this is a high mileage used engine (run more than a lakh km), better stick to the mineral oil. Just make sure that you don't make any compromise on the oil change interval.

[Sourav@1977]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

Just buy the bearing from Maruti Suzuki Genuine Spares. These bearings aren't standard like those in the two wheelers. So we can't choose the make. But the genuine spares shall be good.

The new engine from MASS has only done 22490 km. The previous engine had run 2.5L km. Due to rain I couldn't see the mechanic today. Suspensions are good as it was changed alongwith the engine.

Should I stick to mineral oil or change to synthetic?

Mod Note: Please avoid quoting the entire post when responding

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Originally Posted by Sourav@1977

The new engine from MASS has only done 22490 km. The previous engine had run 2.5L km.

Should I stick to mineral oil or change to synthetic?

You can change to synthetic since the engine has run just 22xxx km. Switching to synthetic in old engines could be a problem; not for a new engine.

In your place, I would have continued with the use of mineral oil and spent the saved money on changing the oil (and of course the filter) earlier than recommended. If your running in mostly on the highways, change the oil at 75% of the recommended interval. If you are doing frequent short trips, change it at 50% - 60% of the recommended interval.

While this practice will make your engine last longer and run smoother, it is unlikely to improve the FE. Timely (or before time) oil change shows the benefits in the later years of the engine.

And do not forget to change the gear oil at 40,000 km interval.

[Sourav@1977]

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

You can change to synthetic since the engine has run just 22xxx km. Switching to synthetic in old engines could be a problem; not for a new engine.

In your place, I would have continued with the use of mineral oil and spent the saved money on changing the oil (and of course the filter) earlier than recommended. If your running in mostly on the highways, change the oil at 75% of the recommended interval. If you are doing frequent short trips, change it at 50% - 60% of the recommended interval.

While this practice will make your engine last longer and run smoother, it is unlikely to improve the FE. Timely (or before time) oil change shows the benefits in the later years of the engine.

And do not forget to change the gear oil at 40,000 km interval.

Thanks bro..
I am running the car about 90% on the highway 6 days a week around 45 km per day.
For city I prefer to use the matiz which returns around 20kmpl in city without Ac. City run is around 300 km a month only.

[Rshrey22]

Why not go with CNG conversion? CNG kits are perform well in Esteems. If it is available at your place then please consider it. I do realise the boot space is compromised but savings are insane with CNG because both the fuel cost is low and the car will return 50% more mileage per unit of gas (per kg compared to equivalent per litre of petrol) it is a win-win situation.

[Kumaran93R]

Your most cost effective method would be to install a CNG or LPG kit. Would reduce your running costs by 50% and 30% respectively. CNG is cheaper, but less power and range. LPG is a bit more expensive, but good range and power.

The only solution to the 5th gear would be to use Baleno's 5th gear at 0.696. Would reduce your RPM by a few hundred. But you'll have to slot the gear a bit later than now. Net net, you'll gain 1-2 kmpl at the most.

Gearbox work would be 10k easily. To recover that in savings would take a very long time.