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Old 17th March 2022, 19:02   #1
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Default Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine-img1.jpeg
Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine-img-2.jpeg
Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine-img-3.jpeg

I own a Honda City Diesel 2014.

Some basic terms used here: Engine broadly has two parts head and block. Engine Block is the bottom part of engine containing the pistons, oil reservoir, etc. Engine Head is the top section, containing the fuel injectors, valves, etc. The gasket is kind of rubber seal placed between the head and block to prevent leakage.

I observed leakage below the engine bay area, expecting simple hose damage due to rat bite, sent the car to FNG1 (Friendly Neighborhood Garage). A very unusual issue was discovered, he found that all hoses were intact; engine oil was leaking into the coolant system, mixing with the coolant and overflowing through the coolant filling box. He concluded that the engine block is cracked, a common problem with Honda diesel cars. Repair estimate Rs 60,000.

The car has only done 83000 kms on NCR roads, is properly maintained and engine has never overheated, so engine damage seemed impossible. Never faced any engine issue in our previous or current cars (few Maruti 800's, Zen, Esteem, WagonR, Innova, Etios, Ciaz - each did over 1lakh kms). From among them, WagonR1.1 did over 1.5lakh kms, Etios-P and Innova-D both over 1.9lakhkms, and Ciaz-D is currently over 1.15 lakh kms and still going strong (touch wood!).

After doing some google search, the likely caused seemed to be gasket damage or some kind of engine/coolant pump damage.

Expecting wrong diagnosis by FNG1, sent to HASS (Honda Authorized Service Centre). HASS confirmed engine damage, but they said damage was in the engine Head instead of the engine block. HASS said that the engine gasket and valve seals are cracked/destroyed due to infrequent use and long periods of non operation. According to them the engine should be run for atleast 10 mins every week to maintain the valve seals and gasket health (During the lockdown the car was stationary for months, ran the engine for around 10 mins to charge the battery every month). This seemed like another pathetic excuse my Honda to blame the customer for their poor quality product. Repair estimated at Rs 45,000. They charged Rs. 700 for inspection and estimate.


Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine-estimate.gif

Having heard completely different view points on the actual reason for the leak, I wanted to get the engine opened for a complete and thorough inspection to ascertain the actual problem.

Charges for opening the engine and conducting a thorough inspection from different garages:
HASS - Rs 9000
FNG1 - Rs 8000
FNG2 - Rs 5000
FNG3 - Rs 1000

Please note here that all three FNGs predicted that the engine block is damaged even before opening the engine, a common problem with Honda diesel engines.

FNG3 found a hole in the engine block, confirming their prediction of damaged engine block.

I contacted HASS stating that damage to engine block at 83000kms is a manufacturing defect and engine should be replaced for free. HASS said that extended warranty has expired and engine cannot be replaced under warranty. (As per my information/assumption, manufacturers usually do not undertake repair of damaged engine blocks and do engine replacement in such cases).

Having received a negative response from HASS and having experienced their general incompetence over the years, decided to save on towing charges and time, got the hole fixed by FNG3 to stop the engine oil loss.

If someone is planning to buy any Honda product and plans to put huge miles on it, please ask around with your FNG, check the service record for other similar high mileage car at the service station and check the status of the test drive car for indication of the problems in the actual vehicle over the ownership period.

Honda has less than 4% of market share in Indian car market, but still has one of the highest number of reported complaints, through the posts by BHPians, news and car reviews on sites like carwale, cardekho, etc. Usually less than 1% of actual problems ever get reported, indicating serious defect ratio. Honda City seems more like a good looking toy and now falls in with other unreliable brands in the Indian market. Internationally also Honda is no longer among top quality brands. Honda keeps launching new models every few years, making it difficult and useless to evaluate long term performance of any model, hiding the problems of previous models and creating an illusion that the new model is somehow better.

I also observed that Honda Diesel engines coolant replacement time is nearly half of standard for a long life coolant with other brands and even honda petrol, possible signal of engine issues.

Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine-img4.jpg


I have recently felt that companies (not limited to automobiles) in India are fearlessly exploiting the Indian consumers with sub standard products and services, probably due to the weak and slow implementation of Laws that have no real bite and consequences. General public awareness can help the Indian consumers make a more informed decision and hopefully put pressure on manufacturers towards positive change. Cars are a serious investment and defects can lead to serious injury and cost.


Another news of possible seriously defective Honda.



https://www.jagran.com/uttar-pradesh...-22549235.html

Please share your thoughts and experience.
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Old 18th April 2022, 15:41   #2
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

Sorry to hear of your predicament. Have there been any updates? Did you try reaching Honda directly? Finding a hole in the engine block after seven/eight years of use isn't an everyday event, so involving Honda might get the dealer (and Honda themselves) to look at this seriously.
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Old 19th April 2022, 19:19   #3
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

Wow, this reaffirms my belief that mine was not an one off case and the mighty Honda actually has issues, my car is a 2014 City Diesel as well and have a thread on Team Bhp regarding its oil leak. The issue in my car was that some packing somewhere had issues so they had to take the engine out and replace it. Packing in Honda speak is gasket as far as I know. All this time I was suspecting my sister's driving to be the culprit since the bulletproof Honda can't break. Apparently it can.
What I found suspicious in my case was both Ring Road and Cherish Honda didn't treat it as a big deal, never took long to diagnose and said that it happens often and that they'll fix it for good without any problem.
So my experience kindof echos yours and I'am guessing there won't be any further issues. Your initial estimates were shockingly high and that too without actually looking, the charge for checking was high as well and atleast in my case they didn't charge anything for diagnosis.

Last edited by Rocketscience : 19th April 2022 at 19:41.
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Old 19th April 2022, 20:50   #4
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

I got a good deal with Jazz diesel, 48K Km and going strong 22KMPL average. I own a FNG, and I casually asked my partner about the deal, he used to work with a Honda dealership earlier. He said, this year we had 3-4 IDtec engine rebuilds, either engines had seized or coolant and oil mixing. He said, "Stay away from used Honda diesel's they are a Failure." from that day on I've been looking for a TDCI or CRDI or D4D or DDIS but staying away from IDtec.
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Old 19th April 2022, 21:32   #5
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

Unbelievable for a Honda!
If this is occurring across many cars, it's safe to conclude that reliability has more to do with experience rather than pedigree. The iDTEC was their first diesel engine BTW and we all assumed it's a reliable motor since it's Honda along with zero breakdowns in the initial years.

Guess Honda petrols are the way to go.
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Old 14th June 2022, 12:47   #6
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

A similar issue has happened with us as well in our 2014 Honda Amaze Diesel which had run around 93,000 KMs. This is the same engine which does duty in almost all Honda Diesel cars in India (except Honda Civic) The car had been mostly run on Delhi-Karnal Highway in 7 years as we stay in Delhi.

The issue: My dad noticed sudden engine performance loss and frequent tripping of Air conditioning, post which he got it checked with a roadside FNG. He mentioned that there was almost no oil in the Engine and it had leaked while getting mixed with the engine. It was around night time and he had no option but to top up the engine oil and somehow return home.

The next day morning, I visited Honda Service Centre where the car is regularly serviced. They mentioned that this is probably an issue with Head Gasket and a complete Engine overhaul will be required. I quarrelled with them that you came to a notion without even opening anything and just observing it from outside (probably they have noticed several cars earlier as well with similar flaws). Anyways, they mentioned the cost of inspection to be Rs. 8000 and a cost of ~ Rs. 2 Lac in case overhaul is required.

Also, a point to be noted here is our car was regularly serviced at their 6 months service interval, always around 8-9K KMs interval with all the top-ups and replacements made as per the service centre's satisfaction. Extremely shocked and saddened by this as we had bought a Honda for the sole faith in their reliability, we decided to get our car back and visit a nearby FNG who we got to know from someone who is a known expert in Diesel engine overhaul.

Upon complete dismantling of the engine, he asked us to visit just to see a hole at the exact same spot near the coolant-water jacket which your car had. He mentioned this happens mostly due to Honda Diesels not having a dedicated oil Cooler assembly installed and somehow these engines tend to crack even in the slightest of unusual load or temperature. Every FNG I visited was aware of this issue and had experienced one or more such cases.

Resolution: The FNG guy mentioned that manual overhaul isn't usually successful as factory-built finish and performance can never be reiterated. So, he gave us an option of changing the entire sealed engine block and head unit along with pistons. Fortunately, we have the Mayapuri market for this purpose. He sourced an almost new engine and turbo unit (keeping our transmission, and injectors) from a total damage accidental car, the cost for which came around Rs. 60,000 including their labour.

We had no other option at this moment than to go ahead with this repair since, at the current moment, the car would only fetch us the scrap value when sold and will put a big hole in our pocket to purchase a new car all of a sudden.

Following the repair, the car has been running fine and we decided to keep it since a lot of money has been spent on the car in this and previous year on repairs and insurances and it wasn't worth it to spend it for under Rs. 2 Lacs with almost North of 1 Lacs already spent recently.

But, the overall long-term reliability still remains a concern and there are a few niggles still here and there (like the recent water pump failure).

Overall, it was a very bitter experience with Honda Diesels and was totally opposite to the reputation they have in the market.

My advice to everyone in the market for a diesel with heavy daily usage is to kindly stay away from Honda Diesels. They are a disaster and have been made with cast aluminium to shed some engine weight and overall friction to boost fuel efficiency, but I think it makes these engines inherently weaker to not be able to withstand heavy loads which diesel engines are regularly used in due to higher compression and temperature environment of Diesel fuel engines.

Anyways, my only point of posting this was to +1 on OP's issue and to make people aware that this is a known issue with Honda Diesel owners and is in no way related to driver negligence.

Posting image of the engine hole. spotted
Attached Thumbnails
Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine-photo20211129113705.jpg  


Last edited by Turbanator : 14th June 2022 at 15:37. Reason: Please proofread before posting. Edited for spell and spacing.
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Old 14th June 2022, 13:40   #7
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

So much for the Honda reliability. I am just wondering, if the hole is that big, where is the debris? It should be one piece or several smaller but not invisible pieces of metal, no? Are they positively retrieved or found during the repair? If the shreds stay back, that is yet another rebuild waiting to happen. Or does it get ground to dust before the engine seizes?
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Old 14th June 2022, 13:52   #8
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by lapis_lazuli View Post
So much for the Honda reliability. I am just wondering, if the hole is that big, where is the debris? It should be one piece or several smaller but not invisible pieces of metal, no? Are they positively retrieved or found during the repair? If the shreds stay back, that is yet another rebuild waiting to happen. Or does it get ground to dust before the engine seizes?
When the engine was dismantled, the hole was in a very porous state in the sense that when we tried to penetrate the hole further with a car key, the metal was shredding off in the form of dust and the hole was getting bigger. So, these minute metal shavings must have been flushed with the engine oil like minor engine dust from engine wear.
One thing to note here, the engine even while running on oil starvation was still revving very freely and was peppy and strongly accelerating like a new engine. It was painful to get this sort of engine dismantled.
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Old 16th June 2022, 10:08   #9
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

This looks like the case of pit corrosion of aluminium because of sulphuric acid/sulphates generated by diesel engine. Is bad fuel quality responsible for this ?
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Old 16th June 2022, 17:59   #10
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

Sorry to hear, however I am wondering if this issue is related only to high mileage 1.5 diesel engines used in India. I am part of quite of few groups on facebook and none have mentioned anything about the 1.6 diesel which is used internationally. In fact people have put upwards of 3 lakh kms without any issues on that engine.
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Old 16th June 2022, 18:26   #11
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by muditseh View Post
When the engine was dismantled, the hole was in a very porous state in the sense that when we tried to penetrate the hole further with a car key, the metal was shredding off in the form of dust
You might want to install aftermarket oil pressure gauge. I am not sure if your car is already equipped with Oil pressure sensor (I think it should be). It won’t save you from another hole in engine but you’ll able to catch if oil is getting burned or if there is some oil leak in engine

Last edited by Axe77 : 17th June 2022 at 02:51. Reason: Fixing quote tag and minor formatting edit.
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Old 16th June 2022, 19:14   #12
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

That is indeed shocking This seems like a common failure on Honda Diesels. Better to get it swapped out than live with repairs. So much for Honda's build quality reputation!
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Old 17th June 2022, 00:28   #13
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

My friend who owns a 2017 Honda City VX diesel which has around 60-70k(not sure about the exact figure) on the odometer also went through the same ordeal recently. This thread seems appropiate to share his ordeal.

One evening en route to Gurgaon his car suffered power loss and the engine heat light showed up, so he stopped on the highway and let the car cool down for a while and afterwards slowly proceeded to his destination.
Next day, he visited a local FNG in Gurgaon who said the car's engine oil was close to empty and the coolant got mixed with the engine oil. Since the car was under warranty he towed his car to the Authorized Service Centre who came to the conclusion that the warranty is void due to him failing to meet the correct time period of the Third Periodic service (is this really a thing to keep your warranty intact?) and he has to pay for the repairs which could cost close to 50k.

After a lot of deliberations and arguing, disappointingly he then towed the car to his local FNG who said the head gasket needs replacement, my friend went ahead with the repair job and after getting the car back he drove for around 400kms and to his horror once again the engine heat light showed up. He visited the same FNG who then found out that there was a hole in the lower part of the engine block. To my friend's dismay he had to get that fixed too since selling such a new car was not feasible to him.

Today, he still loves is car as much but is wary of taking his car to the hills and on long drives, this incident has shattered his confidence in the car. Truly sad.

Last edited by Rshreyansh : 17th June 2022 at 00:32.
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Old 17th June 2022, 06:42   #14
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rshreyansh View Post
warranty is void due to him failing to meet the correct time period of the Third Periodic service (is this really a thing to keep your warranty intact?) and he has to pay for the repairs which could cost close to 50k.
The warranty offered by any manufacturer comes with a a certian set of terms and conditions of which timely service at authorised service center tops the list.
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Old 17th June 2022, 11:16   #15
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Default Re: Found a hole in my Honda City's diesel engine

That was unfortunate. Going by the thread, looks like the cases of such failure are more after such moderate odo readings.
Just curious to understand if the Aluminium Alloy engines are the common reason? Because Hyundai as far as I know have been using Aluminium alloy components of engines (for Diesels and Petrols) for a long time now (including the taxi segment vehicles like xcent etc which easily cross 2~3 lac kms in short period of years). Not many failure cases similar to Honda are being reported. So what other reasons can be considered the root cause?

Last edited by ChandraSekarMN : 17th June 2022 at 11:17. Reason: Incomplete post edited
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