[kapilnitdg]

Hello Bhpians,

I wanted to highlight the hardships I am facing to resolve issues and niggles on my Tata Harrier XZA Purchased in Dec 2021. After spending nearly 1.5 months of 6 months ownership at the service center, now the company is asking me to replace the engine on the car! Its like replacing the heart of the car which has barely managed to complete 6k kms and 6 months.

This is completely unacceptable and shows the poor quality checks standard being maintained by Indian Car Manufacturers.

I want the team BHP community to help me highlight this issue to higher authorities at Tata Motors and press for car replacement. Wanted to understand the opinions and options that I have, given my car is facing issues and Niggles from day 1 of purchase.

Variant - Tata Harrier XZA DT
Chassis Number : MAT631512MPN92328
Date of Delivery : 22 Dec 2021
Dealer : Kropex Autos Hosur road

1) Ordeal from 1st Day of delivery
- Just taking the car out of showroom, I noticed the below problems
-> Car pulling towards the left
-> Strange screeching noise coming from engine bay or steering side
-> Abnormal clunking sound on sharp bumps
I took the car to the service Kropex service center and they told me that it could be minor issues. They were not able to diagnose the issue for 6 days and finally figured out that the clunking sound was coming from the front suspension and the problem was resolved after retorquing.
For steering they told the screeching noise from the engine bay is solved after doing steering bleeding and sent the vehicle. When I test drove the vehicle again the noise was present and they advised they will look into the problem during second service and I can continue driving the vehicle as its not a big problem

2) During second Free service, I decided to Visit Prerna Motors Kudlu this time given my bad experience with Kropex. I gave my car with the below issues
- Steering vibration(during engine idle) and grinding noise from steering
- Screeching noise from engine bay while revving
- Very low high speed stability
All these issues were present from day 1 of purchasing the vehicle

The SC replaced the following parts
- Steering Pump
- Steering Rack assy
- All engine mounts
- Idler belt
- Auxilliary belt

The technicians did not have a clue of what the real problem is but acknowledged that the vibrations are abnormal. Any problem on fuel injection side was also ruled out

The car is at the Prerna service center from one month but they are unable to rectify the idle vibration issue. Today I got a call from the customer care manager that the car engine is faulty and needs replacement. Though they have provided me a loaner car, but I am really tired of new issues cropping up on the car and seeking engine replacement on a new car speaks about the Quality check process at Tata Motors where they passed a defective car to the customer which should have been caught during the checks at the plant.

I want to press Tata to replace my vehicle as I am not sure of the long term reliability of the vehicle after going through engine replacement. To be honest, I had a really harrowing experience with Tata ASS and given the quality checks are soo poor at the company there are a lot of cases of issues and niggles cropping up even on new cars.

I have dropped multiple emails to Mr Dimple Mehta and Mr Rajan Amba but I never heard back from them. Speaks volume about how much they care about their customers!!

Want help from Team BHP to highlight my plight and provide me suggestions and next course of action that I could take from my side

[Jeroen]

Very sorry to hear about your ordeal. Whereas it is understandable you are looking for a new car, So would I, I doubt they will offer you one.

But realistically a full engine swap is not necessarily a bad thing either. When properly done, reliability should not be affected at all.

I would make sure to get something in writing about them guaranteeing this will solve all your problems.

I would also be interested to understand why they believe an engine swap is in order. You want to have clarity as to what the root cause is/was. If anything to get some confidence the new engine will solve your problem.

Steering and stability problems don’t sound like engine issues to me.
Good luck
Jeroen

[kapilnitdg]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Very sorry to hear about your ordeal. Whereas it is understandable you are looking for a new car, So would I, I doubt

Hi Jeroen,

The engine replacement is being done because of the high idle engine vibrations which the technical team has pointed out is because of some problem in the engine itself
The steering noise is a different issue which is being addressed separately

[viXit]

1)Ask for root cause analysis.
2) Ask for screenshots of any errors if they are popping up on the diagnostic scans

These are very vaguely described issues and can be due to n number of issues, it would help to know why they have decided that an engine replacement is in order.

For all we know they can't diagnose it properly, and this could end up becoming another thread like this (Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: 2nd DSG failure (page 4)) (3 gearboxes changed, issue still persisting)


an engine replacement so soon in a car's life in simply UNACCEPTABLE, even for Tata's shitty standards.

I hope this thread gains some traction, and that you get your new harrier. But in the worst case scenario, go for the engine swap and ask for an extended warranty on the car free of cost.

When the car is assembled and engine is fitted in the car on the assembly line, it's done to much higher standards than in the service centre. Think about this, if an engine fitted on the assembly line is this bad, how much worse the SVC install will be. Push for the extended warranty ,no two ways about it.

[kapilnitdg]

Originally Posted by viXit

1)Ask for root cause analysis.
2) Ask for screenshots of any errors if they are popping up on the diagnostic scans

These are very vaguely described issues and can be due to n number of issues, it would help to know why they have decided that an engine replacement is in order.

For all we know they can't diagnose it properly, and this could end up becoming another thread like this (Frustrated with VW's inability to fix my Tiguan Allspace DSG. EDIT: 2nd DSG failure (page 4)) (3 gearboxes changed, issue still persisting)


an engine replacement so soon in a car's life in simply UNACCEPTABLE, even for Tata's shitty standards.

I hope this thread gains some traction, and that you get your new harrier. But in the worst case scenario, go for the engine swap and ask for an extended warranty on the car free of cost.

When the car is assembled and engine is fitted in the car on the assembly line, it's done to much higher standards than in the service centre. Think about this, if an engine fitted on the assembly line is this bad, how much worse the SVC install will be. Push for the extended warranty ,no two ways about it.

Hi Vixit,

I have asked for the root case analysis from the customer support manager. They have promised that they will be sending that across over email.

I have put forward my concern to the Regional Manager, Mr Ram Mohan according to him, they are trying their best to resolve the issue and are trying to help me . In my view, trying to help with a good intention but without any results is not helping at all . How can I get confidence when all they have been doing is keep telling the same thing over and again from past 6 months and new issue keeps cropping on the car .

I am actually tired of speaking to the SC and resolving issues. Speaks about the overall reliability of the vehicle

I tried convincing him to at least provide me with an extended warranty as the engine replacement can cause reliability issues in future to which he blatantly refused. I asked him if it was his decision, he said yes I have the power to take such decisions without consulting any higher ups

All in all a really bad service experience to be honest. Instead of instilling confidence in the customer, he was like we have done so much and assisting in all possible ways as if they are doing a favor to me

[RedMaw]

I thought the FCA engines were quite robust. I am sorry to say this but experts in this forum can confirm, it looks like you have been sold a lemon. I would say cut your losses and sell it after engine change. It has been said many times in this forum, that buying high end TATA cars are a hit or miss. It seems like for you its a miss. Its absurd that even after selling close to 5000 vehicles each month, TATA is not able to resolve all niggles in Harrier and Safari. Either their QC is pathetic or TATA just did not care about their high-end customers.

[Captain Slow]

I would let them replace the engine, ask them for a extension in the warranty for the trouble you have gone through.

Pardon my ignorance - If the Engine is replaced would you need to update your RC card and insurance with the new Engine number? Or would they produce a new engine with the same engine number that's on your car right now?
Please get this clarified from your SA/Customer care.

[Meph1st0]

It is sad that you have to go through all this with a new car.

However, replacement with a new car will most likely not happen.If the engine is faulty there isn't much that can be done, it has to be replaced. What you could do is the following

• Ask them to send the details of the work in writing.
• Keep the Tata regional head in the loop.
• Ask for a 5-year warranty from the date of engine replacement.

[kapilnitdg]

I just use to read about the harrowing experience of Tata ASS but now I am experiencing it myself.

I am pretty sure no one would want to go through the stress and trauma I have been through from day 1 of purchase of Tata Harrier

I am demanding additional warranty extensions on the engine change because of the following reasons. Do you all think I am unjustified in asking that ?

1) The resale value of my car would definitely go down given such extensive repairs done on the car in warranty period, I am not sure if anyone would want to purchase a car with so many things being replaced on the service history

2) Given the actual engine mounting on a car is done in controlled assembly line environment, I do not think same facilities would be available at the dealer service centre. This might lead to other reliability issues in future. There is a higher probability of this happening than on a new car - Here there is no fault of mine , the company passed on a defective car to me and at least I deserve my peace of mind with the extension in warranty

3) In my view the company should provide the extended warranty as a confidence boosting measure for the customer who faced so many hardships from the day the vehicle was purchased. Can they not provide that as a goodwill for the amount of trouble I had with the new car? Am i being unfair asking for it ?

Originally Posted by Meph1st0

It is sad that you have to go through all this with a new car.

However, replacement with a new car will most likely not happen.If the engine is faulty there isn't much that can be done, it has to be replaced. What you could do is the following

• Ask them to send the details of the work in writing.
• Keep the Tata regional head in the loop.
• Ask for a 5-year warranty from the date of engine replacement.

This is what I receive as the RCA details in 3 lines

"With respect to the complaint of vibration on steering on idle condition, as updated to you on daily basis all the parameters related to electrical, fuel system, steering system and mountings has been checked and the observed feedback has been shared with our technical team.

As advice by our technical team, replacement of engine assembly will resolve the issue and ensure the performance of the vehicle will be in line with other harrier vehicles "

Originally Posted by Captain Slow

I would let them replace the engine, ask them for a extension in the warranty for the trouble you have gone through.

Pardon my ignorance - If the Engine is replaced would you need to update your RC card and insurance with the new Engine number? Or would they produce a new engine with the same engine number that's on your car right now?
Please get this clarified from your SA/Customer care.

A very valid question indeed !! I did not think about it

Can some senior BHpian who has done an engine replacement please help me understand what will happen to the engine number ? I will get it checked with the customer care tomorrow

[Porcupine]

Originally Posted by kapilnitdg

This is what I receive as the RCA details in 3 lines

They very clearly, intentionally don't want to say or commit too much. Is it possible at this stage to get an opinion from another service centre?

If they do replace the engine, would the VIN and engine number then not match if you sell the car, or can this be changed on the RC?

[kapilnitdg]

Originally Posted by Porcupine

They very clearly, intentionally don't want to say or commit too much. Is it possible at this stage to get an opinion from another service centre?

If they do replace the engine, would the VIN and engine number then not match if you sell the car, or can this be changed on the RC?

Thanks for our advice, I will suggest the RM to have another view but in my case the Tata motors technical team only has advised for an engine replacement.

To your question on engine number change, I searched in Team Bhp forum and found that it has to be changed at the RTO and in the RC book. Below is the thread explaining the same

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modif...d3-engine.html (RTO Formalities for Engine change in Kerala (XDP4.9 engine to the XD3 engine))

[rishi.roger]

Originally Posted by Porcupine

They very clearly, intentionally don't want to say or commit too much. Is it possible at this stage to get an opinion from another service centre?

If they do replace the engine, would the VIN and engine number then not match if you sell the car, or can this be changed on the RC?

I read somewhere that some car engines have a engine number stamped on a plate instead of being engraved. In such cases they swap the plate between the two engines.
This was for an owner who had Tata Tiago. Do check the possibility of this and also Pros and Cons.

[viXit]

Regarding the VIN nos, most service centres have equipment that can write the same engine number on a fresh block before being installed in the car.

My grandfather's friend has an indigo whose engine was replaced, a fresh block came with a blank engine number. They inscribed the original number on it.

No issues on that front.

Originally Posted by kapilnitdg

I tried convincing him to at least provide me with an extended warranty as the engine replacement can cause reliability issues in future to which he blatantly refused. I asked him if it was his decision, he said yes I have the power to take such decisions without consulting any higher ups

In that case, the attitude of this Mr. Ram Mohan might change after this thread gets some traction. Engine replacement so soon is just shameful and they should have immediately offered a replacement instead of acting pricey with you.

I really think their diagnosis is incorrect though, most service centres are incapable of diagnosing issues properly and just push for replacements without being able to pinpoint the issue properly.

Try sitting with them for a day and figuring out what the issue is. I'm sure many knowledgeable BHPians will be willing to accompany you to the SVC.

Once the issue is identified properly , further steps can be taken care of.

[kapilnitdg]

Originally Posted by viXit

regarding the VIN nos,

Most service centres have equipment that can write the same engine number on a fresh block before being installed in the car.

My grandfather's friend has an indigo whose engine was replaced, a fresh block came with a blank engine number. They inscribed the original number on it.

No issues on that front.




In that case, the attitude of this Mr. Ram Mohan might change after this thread gets some traction. Engine replacement so soon is just shameful and they should have immediately offered a replacement instead of acting pricey with you.

I really think their diagnosis is incorrect though, most service centres are incapable of diagnosing issues properly and just push for replacements without being able to pinpoint the issue properly.

Try sitting with them for a day and figuring out what the issue is. I'm sure many knowledgeable BHPians will be willing to accompany you to the SVC.

Once the issue is identified properly , further steps can be taken care of.

Even I am not really sure if their diagnosis is correct. I am ready to sit with them and try understand the issue if accompanied by a senior BHPian. I am in Bangalore at the moment. If anyone is willing to help please connect with me.

[rishi.roger]

Hey! Just my 2 cents-

Can you talk them through that if engine was to be replaced, they better send it to official assembly plant instead of doing it in their local ASC ? I think this is something which they might consider. (Usually once a car is registered in RTO, manufacturers won't replace unless repair costs are on higher side. I don't think there is any such legal policy either which dictates replacement of entire car, at best it's the components.)

The major challenge in engine replacement is the quality of installation and your must be to reduce it as much as you can, as getting the engine block fitted in an ASC is unacceptable for new car.
Their incompetence already shows at the fact that they were unable to diagnose a problem in a new car, and decided to go for the easier way.
Just in case, if they are right about their diagnosis and if it's indeed the engine, you're better with the replacement in most cases that engine repair.

Also a piece of advice, reach out to someone popular on YouTube and show them this situation. Those guys love such content. In my experience, YouTube hammer spreads like wildfire and sometimes hits hard on Sales.