[Sanidhya mukund]

Hello all!


Hope you all are doing well. Creating this thread to seek your objective views on what would be the best fate for this car.

It is a 1993 Tata Estate that has been in the family since new. It ran until 2009-10, but it was laid up for some reason. It sat for a few years before it was fixed up and donated to a charitable organisation in 2014. However, as far as I can remember, there was an issue with the brakes and radiator, so the car came back to us and sat abandoned in one of our garages until 2021.

In 2021, the driveway got flooded, so it had to be redone. The car was pulled out of the garage and left in the open. This is when I got interested in fixing it, but none of the mechanics of the tier-III city where the car was located were ready to work on such a project. Earlier this month, I came across the contact details of a garage that is involved in modifying and restoring cars. I gave them a call and they said that they can handle the project. This garage was about 80KM away from the car’s location, so I got it towed there.


Now that they have the car, they have sent me an estimate of about 3.5 lakhs for fixing the whole car. Now, there is absolutely no way I am spending that much on a car that I don’t have any real use for.

They claim that the engine isn’t rotating when they tried to do so externally. They have soaked the engine with oil and are now trying to see if that helps freeing it up in any way.

They also believe that all the mechanicals seem to be shot and would require a complete overhaul.


However, a mechanic with a much smaller establishment has told me that he can manage to source second hand parts, repair parts wherever possible and charge me lower labour costs, and thus fix the car for 1.5-1.8 lakhs.

I hence seek your advice.

1. Should I just ask them to get the car to running condition and fix the brakes so that I can bring it back home and continue with the restoration project with the local mechanic? or,

2. Should I ask them to not do anything to the car and simply get it towed to the local mechanic’s place instead? or,

3. should I simply scrap the car and forget about it?

Attaching the rough estimate and car pictures for your reference.

[shankar.balan]

What a fantastic labour of love it will be, if you decide to restore it! I for one, will stand on the sidelines and cheer you all the way.

I do understand some of the pain involved in this, because I have painstakingly brought a cancerous gypsy, the green spitfire, back to life in 2018-2019. And it is flying around happily now in the hands of its new pilot, except that he has christened it Green Beret.

If you do decide to restore the Tata Estate, then it is better to do it locally where you can keep an eye on it and ensure period and parts authenticity as much as possible.

This car was like a substitute Mercedes Benz E Class when it came out. Atleast it seemed like that when we used to see these in the late 1980’s and early 1990’s.

[mayankk]

Is this really a car that deserves to be restored from such a far-gone status? Its not the rarest or a top-of-the-list desirable car.
Also, before you even decide to pursue this, check about the registration, whether that can be done afresh at all. If it is on Delhi plates, then its done for already.

In my opinion, leave it at the scrapyard.

[ajayc123]

My question would be what do you plan to do if it is brought back to running condition?

Will you regularly use and maintain it or would you hand it off to somebody? If you had donated earlier and those guys could not maintain it, would you expect another party to be able to maintain such a restored car?

Further, if you plan to keep it, would you have the time, energy and money to pursue its maintenance in the event of future breakdowns?

Body appears badly rusted, I wonder if it's body frame/structure itself had got rusted,, and would it even have strength to support mobility?

Mechanics / restorers will have their vested interest as it would generate income for them. But try to think about your reason to restore it if at all.

[Benoit]

I would suggest to scrap it. It's very old, and I can see rust here and there. Even if you restore it, the car wouldn't be reliable. The cops would eye on it and trouble you for papers whenever they look at the car on the road. Even it run well now, how long do you think it can run well.

At the price of the restoration, you can buy a good condition used car, and it would be more reliable. Save the headache.

[condor]

Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund

However, a mechanic with a much smaller establishment has told me that he can manage to source second hand parts, repair parts wherever possible and charge me lower labour costs, and thus fix the car for 1.5-1.8 lakhs.

One suggestion:

Break down the restoration into parts:

1. Engine
2. Gearbox
3. Electrical
4. Body + Interiors.
5. Tyres & suspension.

Start with this mechanic, and ask him to get the engine ready first. If that can be done, and based on the cost + quality of work, move down the list. If he cant get the engine ready, then no point in going ahead with the other parts

*

Take a call. 2L may be a fair figure for the work. If things dont look positive after #1, you will still have the satisfaction of having given it a shot.

Also Check if you can put in a NA 483DL engine from a Sumo, instead of re-doing the original engine.


*

The quote of 3.5L shows cost of tyres as 50k. Thats too high. The car must be running on 185 in 15R. These dont cost 10k a piece. If I use this part as benchmark, then I think that quote looks inflated by some.

*

[V.Narayan]

The antecedents and reputation of this garage will need to be checked thoroughly. This sounds like a regular garage wallah and not a high end car restorer. His claim he can do the job should be double checked. For someone like you Rs 3.50 lakhs is not a big sum provided for some rational reason you want to restore what was in some ways India's very first self designed first line passenger luxury car - luxury for that era. In case you have not driven it yourself this is a heavy car by today's standards - heavy and unrefined on the controls I mean. If you have to then restore it to its former glory all the way and keep it as an heirloom - for that this estimate looks small. But to restore it to simply working condition is not worth the effort IMHO. All the best.

[Raghu M]

You will restore it but what about the maintenance and running costs for the next few years? If I were you, I wouldn't trust a small time mechanic with spares. It's going to be extremely difficult if a specific part is not found. The car will sit idle again and tend to go the same way again. Second hand parts are mostly beyond their shelf life, cannot be trusted with such a big machine. I would scrap, if you ask me a straight question.

[ishan12]

Scrap it. I could see that you do not have a use for it once it is back to running condition. No point spending money on it, unless you or your family is too emotionally attached to it and you want to keep it running until it becomes vintage. TATA Estate is not a car an enthusiast would look for in the used car market, neither it would have much of a vintage value in the years to come.

[Rahul Bhalgat]

Scrap it.

1. You won't get any spares (not even from the scrap market or from cannibalized car) in future.
2. Even if you somehow get the parts of engine / transmission to get the car running, I think you won't get parts like headlamps, windshield etc. in future.
3. Even the company built Tata Estate was never known for reliability.
4. In much less than 3.5 lakhs, you can buy another secondhand car to donate to the charitable organisation.

[GTO]

One must carefully choose a vehicle to restore because it takes a LOT OF WORK & RESOURCES. Not just while restoring it, but even after (a 30-year old car is still a 30-year old car, despite restoration). They need attention. It's especially important to be very emotionally attached to the car / model for you to restore it.

An old Jeep, Gypsy, Padmini, Ambassador, Beetle etc. Sure. But an old Tata Estate that has been abused, abandoned and been through a flood? No way man. It wasn't an impressive vehicle to begin with (other than the styling at its time) and is a lost cause today.

Don't throw good money after bad. Scrap it.

[Gypsian]

Once tinkering work begins the cost will inflate like an hot air balloon. Some parts appear to be completely eaten by rust from within and once detached you will be in for a shock as the tinker may suggest replacement.It is one thing to restore it mechanically ( engine and drivetrain) and another thing to restore the body and bring it to desired shape.
Definitely not worth the money and time taking into consideration this particular car.

[DriverNo.420]

The car is banged up as much as it can be. It is a miracle after all that rust, it is still in one piece. If you have childhood memories attached with it, then I'd say go for it restore it but not from the garage you sent it to. That garage seems like it is an 'oil and filter change' garage only. Get her back and take it to a reputable restorer in your area and supervise every work done yourself.

Because, in my opinion nostalgia and emotional connect has no price However, if you don't have much connection with it, then the most sensible decision would be to scrap it.

[Sanidhya mukund]

Originally Posted by mayankk

Is this really a car that deserves to be restored from such a far-gone status? Its not the rarest or a top-of-the-list desirable car.
Also, before you even decide to pursue this, check about the registration, whether that can be done afresh at all. If it is on Delhi plates, then its done for already.

In my opinion, leave it at the scrapyard.

The car isn’t on Delhi plates, but the FC lapsed quite a while ago. It can still be renewed, but will have to be presented for a fitness test, which can only be done if the car is fit.

Although it isn’t the most desireable car, I have a feeling that it is becoming quite rare nowadays, especially because not many were sold when new!

Originally Posted by ajayc123

My question would be what do you plan to do if it is brought back to running condition?

This time, I plan to keep it with me. However, regular use isn’t something that I foresee. I already have other cars for regular use and also have two other old cars that are being kept only for emotional reasons.

Originally Posted by V.Narayan

The antecedents and reputation of this garage will need to be checked thoroughly. This sounds like a regular garage wallah and not a high end car restorer. His claim he can do the job should be double checked. For someone like you Rs 3.50 lakhs is not a big sum provided for some rational reason you want to restore what was in some ways India's very first self designed first line passenger luxury car - luxury for that era. In case you have not driven it yourself this is a heavy car by today's standards - heavy and unrefined on the controls I mean. If you have to then restore it to its former glory all the way and keep it as an heirloom - for that this estimate looks small. But to restore it to simply working condition is not worth the effort IMHO. All the best.

They have done a couple of Gypsy and Ambassador restorations in the past, including a single owner 1971 Ambassador. However, sir, 3.5 lakhs is quite a chunk of money for anyone!

The only rational reasons why I want to restore it is the fact that this car is getting rare nowadays and also the fact that it has been with us for nearly 3 decades. It has always been a part of the landscape, even when it was just sitting abandoned in the garage. Letting it go feels a bit difficult to me. Also, I somehow end up personifying cars, so scrapping it will feel like a murder.

Originally Posted by Rahul Bhalgat

Scrap it.

1. In much less than 3.5 lakhs, you can buy another secondhand car to donate to the charitable organisation.

We already brought them a Brand new Maruti Van, which was far more suitable for their intended use. This time, I solely want to bring this car back to life to keep as a ‘classic’ car.

Originally Posted by Gypsian

Once tinkering work begins the cost will inflate like an hot air balloon.

That is my single biggest concern. If the superficial rusting is this bad, I can’t imagine the extent to which the body structure is rusted internally.

[condor]

Originally Posted by Sanidhya mukund

The car isn’t on Delhi plates, but the FC lapsed quite a while ago..

Pls note - the current charges for renewal include Rs 500 per month as penalty for delay in renewal. So you would be paying about 6k a year just for that.