[SuperSuri]

Originally Posted by SolidusSnake

Can you share your contact of VW Noida?

Shared via PM buddy. Hope they are able to resolve it as per the OE standards.

[zeng]

Originally Posted by SolidusSnake

So the VW dealership got the machine updated with Virtus values. Below are the alignment results. My query Right caster value is below min. And secondary SAI is totally out of specifications. I don’t have much knowledge about these values, can anybody shed light on these. As per VW manager, for Virtus they only adjust camber and toe.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attac...b2ad8ab59.jpeg

The (incorrectly done) subframe shift by VW dealer has messed up big time with the resultant undesirable casters and SAI's angles.

The unbalanced Included Angle (9°09' Left and 5°33' Right) as a consequence of subframe shift may have led to vehicle pulling left phenomenon, IDK.

I suspect the steering wheel crooked and off centre to the Right phenomenon may be related to the Front wheel setback of +0.49". Btw, is the " unit in seconds or mm, anyone?

In other words, the previous subframe shift may need to be undone going forward.

Just my 2 cents.

[SolidusSnake]

Originally Posted by zeng

In other words, the previous subframe shift may need to be undone going forward.

Just my 2 cents.

You are absolutely right, my understanding also says that subframe shift caused SAI to be different for each side, and more SAI on left is causing the left pull. The thing is service centre guys are for lack of better word dumb, they are clueless as what they are doing, subframe shouldn’t have been touched in the first place and for a brand new car, I don’t want to get subframe touched by outside persons . What to do now, this is turning into a horror story for me. I think only a VW engineer can get the subframe aligned to specs, can anyone here, @GTO help me get in touch with VW

[teja030]

You may get in touch with Mr. Vishal Bhat via Linkedin. He usually responds. He is the Head - Service at VW India.



And let me add a point here. The Wheel Alignment report you posted has the same specified ranges of the VW Vento/ VW Polo. I am not sure if these values apply to VW Virtus too. Please check.

[SolidusSnake]

Originally Posted by Sankar

Subframe shift is literally shifting the subframe on the body shell to adjust camber. This is for the Polo 6R and should be the same in principle for Virtus and other similar models.

Attachment 2369163

Would suggest that OP get the steering angle sensor value checked with steering held straight.

VW recommends using new bolts after subframe shift, my subframe has been shifted 3 times and ever time old bolts have been reused. I believe this is a safety risk. What should I do? Dealership is saying bolts can be reused

[zeng]

Originally Posted by SolidusSnake

VW recommends using new bolts after subframe shift, my subframe has been shifted 3 times and ever time old bolts have been reused. I believe this is a safety risk. What should I do? Dealership is saying bolts can be reused

Concur with the dealership/oem on the reuse of subframe bolts as they aren't 'structural' in character.

[SolidusSnake]

Originally Posted by zeng

Concur with the dealership/oem on the reuse of subframe bolts as they aren't 'structural' in character.

But oem guidelines say use new bolts, it’s dealership which is reusing old bolts

[Sankar]

Originally Posted by SolidusSnake

VW recommends using new bolts after subframe shift, my subframe has been shifted 3 times and ever time old bolts have been reused. I believe this is a safety risk. What should I do? Dealership is saying bolts can be reused

New bolts should be used.

Service manual calls for new bolts because they would be torque to yield bolts which is designed to stretch during the torquing process. Re-using them will not yield the same clamping force as a new bolt would and the stress cycling during re-use could cause it to fail.

Originally Posted by zeng

Concur with the dealership/oem on the reuse of subframe bolts as they aren't 'structural' in character.

Subframe is a structural component of the car.

Originally Posted by SolidusSnake

But oem guidelines say use new bolts, it’s dealership which is reusing old bolts

If its a warranty repair new bolts would add to the cost and these are not cheap. If the repair is final i.e., subframe shift experimentation is finished and is final, remove the bolt one by one and use brand new bolts and torque them to spec.

[zeng]

Originally Posted by SolidusSnake

But oem guidelines say use new bolts, it’s dealership which is reusing old bolts

Agree that almost all oem factory service manuals always specifies used bolts be replaced with factory new bolts.

However the dealer's reuse of subframe used bolts is not a safety hazard or a performance hazard in this context.

Btw these bolts are subject to shear load during turning/cornering rather than tensile load.

[SolidusSnake]

Update: I insisted that subframe shift be reversed. I suggested another virtus be brought to help bring subframe to original condition.
This was done and my car’s subframe was restored, voila, alignment values including caster all came into limit. Steering feedback, weight again became normal. However left pulling issue persists as before, to keep car going straight, steering has to be tilted to right. VcDS cable connected, no error code in power steering system. Alignment checked multiple times, matches with the other Virtus, values of both the cars attached below.
What to do now?, service guys clueless, help me out

[Kosfactor]

Originally Posted by SolidusSnake

Update: I insisted that subframe shift be reversed. I suggested another virtus be brought to help bring subframe to original condition.
This was done and my car’s subframe was restored, voila, alignment values including caster all came into limit. Steering feedback, weight again became normal. However left pulling issue persists as before, to keep car going straight, steering has to be tilted to right. VcDS cable connected, no error code in power steering system. Alignment checked multiple times, matches with the other Virtus, values of both the cars attached below.
What to do now?, service guys clueless, help me out

What you have done is to satisfy the computer that alignment is correct

Now find an alignment expert in your city who can actually make the car go straight, ask local mechanics or tempo traveler drivers etc for recommendations. Make sure those fellows are test driving the vehicles , checking the tyre wear pattern and then correcting it after doing multiple test drives.

Anybody who is buying a new car these days must mandatorily check wheel alignment at an expert in their area before using the vehicle further, for whatever reason this is becoming a rare skill.

[teja030]

Originally Posted by SolidusSnake

What to do now?, service guys clueless, help me out

As mentioned earlier, your Steering Angle Sensor has to be re-calibrated via VCDS at a VW service Centre. It has to be 0° when your SW is held straight with respect to the driver’s position. It is a Mandatory check in the issue you mentioned after a Wheel Alignment.

[vedirah]

Originally Posted by SolidusSnake

What to do now?, service guys clueless, help me out

I'm glad VWASS reset the subframe on your car. If the left pull is still there, it could be a steering issue or a calibration issue.

Regards,
Haridev

[SolidusSnake]

Originally Posted by vedirah

I'm glad VWASS reset the subframe on your car. If the left pull is still there, it could be a steering issue or a calibration issue.

Regards,
Haridev

Or a chassis issue, but how to resolve it, have spent 3 full days in service centre, those guys don’t have a clue of what to do

[zeng]

Originally Posted by SolidusSnake

Update: I insisted that subframe shift be reversed. I suggested another virtus be brought to help bring subframe to original condition.
This was done and my car’s subframe was restored, voila, alignment values including caster all came into limit. Steering feedback, weight again became normal. However left pulling issue persists as before, to keep car going straight, steering has to be tilted to right. VcDS cable connected, no error code in power steering system. Alignment checked multiple times, matches with the other Virtus, values of both the cars attached below.
What to do now?, service guys clueless, help me out

Glad to learn that the integrity of the subframe has been satisfactorily restored/undone and becoming more favourable currently.

Interesting that the computer does not detect and require the need to recalibrate the steering angle sensor aka zero calibration after restoring subframe position by the VW dealership.

Steering wheel is still tilted to right now?

It's off centre severity is similar and as bad as before with no improvement?

How many mm/inch off centre whilst driving straight ahead at a wheel diameter of 300/350 mm, so as to have a better sense of its magnitude?

On persistent pulling to the left phenomenon, is there an improvement in its severity after restoring subframe position, or it is as bad as before?

At a certain road speed of either 70 or 80 or 90 or 100 km/hr, with hands temporarily off the steering wheel in how many seconds it would take for the Virtus to pull towards and occupy the left lane completely?

Originally Posted by SolidusSnake

Or a chassis issue, but how to resolve it, have spent 3 full days in service centre, those guys don’t have a clue of what to do

I don't think there is any issue with the car chassis now and I think you're overthinking it, granted you do face 'residual' problem like pull and steering wheel tilt. You seem to be able to perceive/detect 'imperfections' and being very sensitive in vehicle handling and driving experience.