[mycar]

Hi all BHPian's,

Happy Monday. Hope everyone is good and safe.

This is a newbie. I joined recently and this is my first blog. I am planning to upgrade from a 5 to 7-seater and looking for some suggestions w.r.t. hybrids on highways, as I am not roaming the city in a car.

I have been waiting for Innova Hycross and reading a lot of blogs and details about the TNGA 5th-gen hybrid and how the system works. Thanks to all BHPians who have been sharing inputs from the blogs and love their comments as well. I see that self-charging gives good mileage when it comes to city drives. But when it comes to highways, it is something that keeps bothering my mind.

I am a fan of the Prius hybrid and also the Tata Safari. The new Safari is really tempting me to go and book it. But at the same time, because it's available only in diesel, it is making me take a step back. The Innova Hycross is also making me do the same and this question, "how does hybrid work on highways?" prevents me.

As long as the battery has enough charge, on the highway, at full acceleration, the motor does help by giving power along with the gasoline engine and thus saves gasoline. But, if there is the concept of charging the battery at the same time while discharging (I mean charging and using the battery at the same time) then I am not sure how long the battery will sustain. As per the battery working procedure, I know that charging and discharging are not at all possible at the same time with the same path (circuit). But, as this hybrid technology uses various paths for charging and discharging, just like mobile phone where you can use the phone while charging, it makes me think twice. Certainly, if we are using mobile phones while charging, then depletion of the battery increases twice or maybe more times as fast as while using with normal full charge procedure.

I think this is a good technical point for all those who are looking to buy the Hycross hybrid. I did watch Toyota's videos and also some others, to understand more, but none of them is giving me deep information about this process. If anyone has any inputs, please share so that it can help me make up my mind and move further.

Thanks & Regards

MyCar BHPian.

[alpha1]

Well to recapitulate the concepts of Hyrbrid EV:
1) The most fuel inefficient action of the internal combustion engine (ICE) is acceleration. When the vehicle starts from standstill to say 80 kmph. There are multiple reasons for this, most important is that ICE has poor torque curve. When you start, you require high torque; ICE can give high torque at sufficiently high RPM. That means you need clutch which slips = energy loss.

Second, the ICE needs to run through gearing in order to produce wheel usable torque, so you need to run your engine through RPM range (low to high), change the gear (because you don't want to be trudging at 10 kmp while your engine howls at 5000 RPM) - and you follow this exercise till you reach 80 kmph at 5th or 6th gear. This means till the point you reach 80 kmph at highest gear, you are actually burning more fuel and traveling less distance.

2) This means the only efficient way you use ICE is cruising at highest possible speed and highest possible gear and lowest possible RPM (that's when engine produces lowest torque - hence burning the least fuel)

3) Hybrid EVs use electric drive (motor) for acceleration and regenerative braking and ICE during cruising. So you are right about closed circuit of acceleration and braking plus friction losses should lead to energy loss (otherwise it becomes a perpetual motion machine), however you need to account for the energy inputs by the ICE during the entire driving process also into the equation. In a way the ICE is also powering your battery along with moving your car.


I know that my post if not a direct answer to your question (regarding experience), but I thought it would be prudent to revisit the working principles.

[nandrive]

Originally Posted by mycar

Hi All BHPian's,

I see that self-charging gives out good mileage when it comes to city drives. But when it comes to highway is something that keeps bothering my mind.
.

If your worry is about highway mileage of Toyota hybrids I can assure you from my personal experience that you are going to get really great mileage even on highways. If your worry is about longevity of batteries since charge/discharge happens simultaneously, I do not know the answer, I trust Toyota engineers.

I drive an AWD Toyota Rav4 2.5L hybrid in Australia which has a kerb weight of 1745kgs. In the 2022 year end break (peak summer in Australia, can't even think of switching off AC) I drove 5300kms with 5 people on board. Here highways are usually rated at 110kmph and I always drive at the speed limit(99% of the time ADAS does the driving). I calculated mileage of the entire trip using tank full method and I got 18.1 km/l for the trip.

Until now I have driven close to 29000kms and my average fuel consumption stands @18.57 km/l (tank full method). I guess Hycros should be able to give better mileage than this. Indian conditions like busier highways, lower speed limits should help achieve better mileage, of course one should drive sanely.

[Shreyans_Jain]

It is reasonable to expect the Innova HyCross to be significantly more fuel efficient than the Tata Safari, be it in city traffic or in highway conditions.

[youknowitbetter]

Hybrids are cost effective in city traffic as they can run purely as an EV and brake regen keeps on topping up the battery. However, in case of highway, they purely run on ICE mode due to higher RPM and speed.

I have an offbeat question, which I am asking here since this a new thread discussing Hybrid. Has anyone analysed the difference between the new hybrids offered by Toyota in India versus the technology that they have/had in Prius? If so, can the same be explained in simple words for a simpleton like me. Thanks a ton

[antz.bin]

Think of a Hybrid as a car which overcomes the ICE disadvantages in the city but retains its strengthens on the Highway.

Most ICE cars return excellent fuel economy on the Highways. If your city running is very minimal, you could in fact save yourself the money and go for the Safari since anyways a Innova Hycross Petrol Hybrid will probably not be any cheaper to run on the highway vs a Safari / Harrier Diesel.

But if the choice is between the Innova Crysta Diesel and Hycross Hybrid, stick to the hybrid if you don't have a pressing need for a RWD vehicle. Diesels are on their way out and a Hybrid will serve you much better in the long run especially considering that there is hardly any price difference between the two Innovas.

[GTO]

I wouldn't have expected hybrids to be as fuel-efficient on the highway, as their real strength is in the city. However, we have two Camry owners who have reported 18-19 kmpl and 22 kmpl on the highway.

I am pleasantly surprised. Really looking forward to FE posts from Hyryder & Innova Hycross owners.

[Shreyans_Jain]

Originally Posted by GTO

I wouldn't have expected hybrids to be as fuel-efficient on the highway, as their real strength is in the city. However, we have two Camry owners who have reported18-19 kmpl and22 kmpl on the highway.

I am pleasantly surprised. Really looking forward to FE posts from Hyryder & Innova Hycross owners.

Why is this surprising? Atkinson cycle is more efficient that diesel cycle and far more efficient than Otto cycle. Turbo diesel has the advantage of a strong, flat and continuous slug of torque, providing stronger and more responsive drive especially at 100+ speeds. But in terms of simple fuel efficiency, it’s a no contest.

[84.monsoon]

Originally Posted by mycar;5481064.

. But, as this hybrid technology uses various paths for charging and discharging, just like mobile phone where you can use the phone while charging, it makes me think twice. Certainly, if we are using mobile phones while charging, then depletion of the battery increases twice or maybe more times as fast as while using with normal full charge procedure.
.
.

I had made a post earlier about how shallow cycle charging helps retain battery life of Toyota hybrids over a very long time. You may find this useful in the context of this aspect of the question you are raising.

https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/india...ml#post5448589 (Hybrids vs Diesel vs Electric Car | Total cost of ownership study)

[exhaustpipe]

I once drove my Camry Hybrid from Delhi to Chandigarh with the sole objective of achieving maximum FE. It was a day trip during winters with normal traffic.

The car returned a FE of ~24kmpl. The instant FE graph in the centre console helped a lot in assessing the right amount of pressure I had to apply to the accelerator. TBH, it blew my mind away. Especially considering the fact that Camry is not a small car.

This of course is not practical.

[sunbaj]

Let me share my observation and experience and the learnings as I have recently got my Brezza Smart Hybrid and have driven close to 1082 Km.

Please note I am still a learner to Hybrid car and yet to master it.

My first drive as soon as I took the delivery of the car was approx. 286 Km. I was not aware rather did not understand the Hybrid functionality and drove the car as I would drive my previous car which was Swift Dzire Diesel. I was not aware when and how the regen would kick in and when the battery would charge. So I got a mileage of around 18.7km/liter on the MID on my first drive.

Then I read the manual and started changing my driving style and drove for approx. another 70 odd km within city to change my driving style.

When I went for a refill which was a tank full, I got a mileage of 17 km/liter tank full to tank full.

I was to drive to Delhi NCR and with change in my driving style got a mileage of 19.7 km/liter as per MID ( Please note I had reset the MID which displays the mileage after my refill). Drove to office and home in Delhi NCR for 3 days and with further improvement in driving style and better connect with car the MID started showing 20.2 km/liter.

Last night drove back to Chandigarh and with a better understanding of how to drive a Hybrid the MID now show 20.7 KM/liter.

As per MID I am good to drive another 150 KM and since last tank full have already driven 690 Km.

With the amount of fuel left as shown in the MID I am pretty confident that I will be able to drive another close to 200 KM. Will update the post once I go in for refill.

I guess after 10K service and with me mastering Hybrid I would be easily extracting a mileage of approx. 22km/liter.

[revsperminute]

In my experience with a Lexus ES, fuel economy is 14-16 in the city and almost the same on the highway if you’re doing 100-120 kmph with a relaxed driving style. Both fuel economy and driving pleasure go for a toss when pushing the car at very high speeds.

[aadiaksh]

After having driven hyryder for close to 2K kms, below are orservations which might be of some help to understand.

1. City driving gives 24 to 26 kms in mix traffic and clear roads.
2. Highway drive pedal to the metal style gives FE of appx. 20 kms
3. Highway drive relaxed and laid back gives FE of appx. 22 to 23 kms
4. Any drive to extract max FE be it city or highway will give FE of 26 to 28 kms. The real-time graphic of what is happening wrt to engine and battery is of help here. (Note: the same kind of driving style in my e220d gave me FE of 21 kms over a Mumbai Vapi stretch.)

[Traveler]

This is what my Honda City Hybrid returned on a recent Bangalore to Goa trip. The car had 3 passengers and a full boot.

[abeerbagul]

My Honda City hybrid gives a mileage of 22kmpl in bad traffic in Pune City.
To illustrate how bad the traffic can be yesterday I took 2 hours to travel from office to home that is 16 kms.

On a Pune to Goa trip last week it gave me 21 kmpl over 900 kms of a mix of national highway, state highways, narrow Goa roads.

Going from Pune to Mumbai it gave me almost 27 kmpl, of course the uphill climb while coming back averaged out the mileage.

Another huge advantage of the hybrid is the zero nvh when moving in slow traffic. It reduces stress of the commute to a large extent.