[CannedShroud]

Hi All,

I am starting this thread for it to be a place where there can be an open discussion about the performance mods that can be done for Tata Revotron engines.

In the current situation, there is very limited information about these engines.. and the aftermarket scene is pretty much non existent. I hope owners and experts alike can come together and help contribute on this thread where new owners can discuss/plan/sanity-check their plans. The aim is to have atleast some consolidated thread with real information, so we can work our way through attaining maximum output from the platform.

Please feel free to share your builds as well, any information would be very much appreciated (even the smallest tid-bits)

[soulfuel]

Originally Posted by CannedShroud

Hi All,

I am starting this thread for it to be a place where there can be an open discussion about the performance mods that can be done for Tata Revotron engines.

Honestly, I don't see any 'performance' in 3 pot Revotron engines, except for those which come with a turbo. The only thing I like about this engine is the low-end torque, which is somewhat similar to diesel engines and it feels like one . After all, it's a 1.2L engine pulling 1000 - 1200 kg plus the weight of passengers and luggage

I had given it a thought though but could not have more time to implement it. The mods which I can propose:
1. NGK iridium spark plugs - already purchased, I'll change them during the next service.
2. I use Amsoil Signature series oil.
3. The air filter box of Tiago/Tigor JTP can be used.

PS - Please replace the gear oil after 10/15K. You will be amazed by the metal particles found in the oil.

[CannedShroud]

Originally Posted by soulfuel

Honestly, I don't see any 'performance' in 3 pot Revotron engines, except those which comes with turbo. The only thing I like about this engine is low end torque, somewhat similar to disel engines and it feels like one . After all, its an 1.2 L engine pulling 1000 to 1200KG plus the weight of passengers and luggage
But still, I had given it a thought though but could not have more time to implement it. The mods which I can propose;
1. NGK iridium spark plug - alrady purchased, I'll change it in next service.
2. I use Amsoil signature series oil.
3. The air filter box of Tiago/Tigor JTP can be used.

PS - Please replace the gear oil after 10/15K, you will be amazed by the metal particals found in oil.

Hey, thanks for your insights. This thread is for both the NA and the TC variant of the engine.

You are right, apart from the initial low-end grunt, the NA engines lack soul and it's a fair but disappointing.

About your upgrades,
1) Please let me know about your experience with the sparks, I own the TC variant of the engine and have already had a few misfire codes.

2) Have you tested other oils? What is your experience with this particular oil and also what is it rated at? (Tata recommends 0W20)

3) Yes the Intake and Exhaust from the JTP will really help enhance the feel of the engine. And to be honest, so will a remap. I heard that tuners are being able to increase the torque band throughout the rev range (NA) and the difference is actually noticeable

My car has clocked about 18.5k kms as of now, I am personally very scared about the gearbox condition. My SC does now allow customers to snoop around the workshop area. So I will not be able to inspect that till next service (where i take the car elsewhere)

Thanks Again for your insghts!

[soulfuel]

Originally Posted by CannedShroud

2) Have you tested other oils? What is your experience with this particular oil and also what is it rated at? (Tata recommends 0W20)

My car manual suggests 5W30 oil. It is a non turbo engine.

I invariably stay near my car during every service and keep an eye over the work done. When objected by TASC, I told them that the Car is my property and I have the right to see the work going on my Car.

[GTO]

Don't modify these engines, especially while in the warranty period. You'll hit limitations either with the engine (Nexon's tune is already very nice), clutch or gearbox torque limit. I say, just do the basic stuff like filter & free-flow exhaust. Then get nicer tyres.

[CannedShroud]

Originally Posted by GTO

Don't modify these engines, especially while in the warranty period. You'll hit limitations either with the engine (Nexon's tune is already very nice), clutch or gearbox torque limit. I say, just do the basic stuff like filter & free-flow exhaust. Then get nicer tyres.

True about the Nexon, but I own a Altroz iTurbo. It feels quite lacking in terms of power (as compared to the i20s and Polos of the world).

The suspension, steering feels very nice. But it really lacks the final push in my opinion. A Stage 1/1+ remap allows figures closer to the competitors (~118bhp and ~164NM torque). That feels like a nice bump.

I understand the torque limit of the TA65 gearbox, but from what I have heard from numerous tuners is that it is quite okay with the stage 1/2 tunes.

With the upcoming Altroz Racer, all these issues deem to be solved and that is amazing, but I am personally very curious how much it will cost for a trans swap to the 6 speed TA6300 (nexon / racer gearbox).

Also the fact that Altroz and Nexon share the exact same block and engine hardware is a nice breather. This means the changes are purely on the tune side. But sadly these torque limits are set in the ECU as hardcoded walls, rather than normal torque clipping maps or skimmed fuel maps.

[CannedShroud]

Originally Posted by soulfuel

My car manual suggests 5W30 oil. It is a non turbo engine.

I invariably stay near my car during every service and keep an eye over the work done. When objected by TASC, I told them that the Car is my property and I have the right to see the work going on my Car.

Surely something I will firmly follow from here on. Can you please elaborate about your choice of oil? and maybe touch on your experiences with it and other oils

[Livnletcarsliv]

Stay away from hardware upgrades with Tata, let alone hardware swaps. Tata cars are highly unreliable. You will not only loose warranty, but is also unsafe and not recommended. Unless you want to do this as a project car (where there is no restriction - you can upgrade, replace, swap and do anything), just go with a basic air-filter upgrade, better lubricants, wheels upgrade and probably a simple stage 1 remap just to satisfy yourself. That said, what ever you do, the Revtron engine cannot match a TSI/GDI engine of VW/Hyundai (even that of Maruti). In general, Tata is not strong in petrol engines. So it is not advisable to do such major modifications.

[CannedShroud]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

Stay away from hardware upgrades with Tata, let alone hardware swaps. Tata cars are highly unreliable. You will not only loose warranty, but is also unsafe and not recommended. Unless you want to do this as a project car (where there is no restriction - you can upgrade, replace, swap and do anything), just go with a basic air-filter upgrade, better lubricants, wheels upgrade and probably a simple stage 1 remap just to satisfy yourself. That said, what ever you do, the Revtron engine cannot match a TSI/GDI engine of VW/Hyundai (even that of Maruti). In general, Tata is not strong in petrol engines. So it is not advisable to do such major modifications.

Hey, Thanks for your inputs, I agree. The revotron engines have not proven to be as reliable as their competitors. And the nature of Port Injection engines make it naturally not as competitive when it comes to power/fuel efficiency as compared to Direct Injection. But i still feel, for engines that are already detuned.. like the one in the Altroz iTurbo can be tuned a notch higher. Not to mention it's the same block design developed by JA Motorsport for the Tamo Racemo that was supposed to deliver around 200bhp.

Moreover it's the same engine (to every detail) that goes in the Nexon. It does feel as if there is performance left on the table.

With the amazing suspension/EPS setup the Altroz has, the engine really feels lack luster. And some upgrade path should exist in my findings. As you said, starting with the 1) air intake 2) maybe a decat 3) tune 4) the better turbo from the Tiago JTP?

From what I've heard about the REVTRN 15 (TC) engine is that the block and component design is quite good.. while Tata has not implemented a lot of the features that have been developed for the same.

Really makes me wonder what can be attained. Your thoughts?

[Livnletcarsliv]

Originally Posted by CannedShroud

But i still feel, for engines that are already detuned.. like the one in the Altroz iTurbo can be tuned a notch higher. Not to mention it's the same block design developed by JA Motorsport for the Tamo Racemo that was supposed to deliver around 200bhp.

Moreover it's the same engine (to every detail) that goes in the Nexon. It does feel as if there is performance left on the table.

With the amazing suspension/EPS setup the Altroz has, the engine really feels lack luster. And some upgrade path should exist in my findings. As you said, starting with the 1) air intake 2) maybe a decat 3) tune 4) the better turbo from the Tiago JTP?

From what I've heard about the REVTRN 15 (TC) engine is that the block and component design is quite good.. while Tata has not implemented a lot of the features that have been developed for the same.

Really makes me wonder what can be attained. Your thoughts?

The entire JTP system including the powertrain for the Tiago JTP is totally customised (A lot of money has gone into the R&D). The cars built for motorsport are for a specific purpose which cannot and should not be replicated on stock cars. It is not an apple to apple comparison to compare stock cars to motor sport cars just because they have the same chassis, shell/body shape, and engine blocks.

While it may be true that Nexon and Altroz uses the same block to the T, Nexon is approx 200Kgs heavier and the platform is also different. Altroz uses ALPHA and Nexon is build on the X1 platform. Nevertheless, the performance gains of Altroz from a mod is still an unknown territory for us. The easiest and most appropriate way is to check with a professional. I see that you from Goa and there are good options in Kerala, Mumbai and Bangalore.

[CannedShroud]

Originally Posted by Livnletcarsliv

The entire JTP system including the powertrain for the Tiago JTP is totally customised (A lot of money has gone into the R&D). The cars built for motorsport are for a specific purpose which cannot and should not be replicated on stock cars. It is not an apple to apple comparison to compare stock cars to motor sport cars just because they have the same chassis, shell/body shape, and engine blocks.

While it may be true that Nexon and Altroz uses the same block to the T, Nexon is approx 200Kgs heavier and the platform is also different. Altroz uses ALPHA and Nexon is build on the X1 platform. Nevertheless, the performance gains of Altroz from a mod is still an unknown territory for us. The easiest and most appropriate way is to check with a professional. I see that you from Goa and there are good options in Kerala, Mumbai and Bangalore.

Yes, totally agree with that, actually I have planned a remap from kochin. The Tuner seems to be quite well versed with the TC platform. Apparently they have some insights in the development of the platform. Hopefully everything goes great.

[CannedShroud]

Hey guys, happy to see the thread get a little bit of traction, hoping to see it grow. Here is my current setup/build and my findings.

Context: I own a Tata Altroz iTurbo 1.2T mated to the TA65 gearbox. So most of my insights/experiences/ideas are going to come based on this platform and probably are not applicable to the NA versions or even the Nexon engine in some cases.

Also, please feel free to correct me if I am wrong in any way. We are all here to learn/grow and have a happy and joyful relationship with our cars.

Staring of with my current setup:
Apart from the stock, I have a few modifications done (pretty minor)

1. BMC Dual Conical Air Intake
2. Muffler delete to a open end can
3. ZVTV ecotreds to UC6s (upsize)
4. Stage 1+ remap (planned)

As per my knowledge this is the same engine built by JTP or the Jayem Tata Performance partnership team in coimbatore. I have asked around people who have worked with the original development team and it turns out that the engine was mostly developed my the Jayem team themselves and less so by Tata. As in Tata played a mainly advisory/managing role as to what the end result is supposed to be.

This engine (the REVTRN15 TC) was also used in the Tamo Racemo concept car and was mated with a electric motor for a hybrid platform, claiming 190 bhp and 210 nm torque. (This car was also mated to a transmission derived from the TA6300 or the Nexon auto gearbox).

Why I have a strong reason to believe that there is a lot of performance left on the table especially in the case of the Altroz iTurbo.

1. The Nexon
2. The torque curve
3. The JTP legacy and Engine design

Starting off...

The Nexon

The Nexon comes with the exact same engine as the Altroz, whilst being mated to the newer/much better/much more refined TA6300 gearbox.I understand the detune that was done so that the cheaper TA65 unit stays in its torque limits, but that still keeps options open for people who want to do trasmission swaps down the line OR just YOLO it like the 250nm tuned JTD dzires from 2008

The torque curve

Well, the torque curve of the engine is quite weird (you can take a look at it here https://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attac...1140031382.png). So as you can see, the power climbs till 5500rpm after which Tata has implemented a strict boost cut off for the turbo. More-over if you have a altroz turbo and push it to redline in 3rd, you know the last lip of performance you feel at that 5200rpm range. Now for the interesting part, the fact that the curve is flat at 140NM, right down from 1500 rpm to 5500 rpm, is a strong reason to believe that, it is just a torque clipping map that is set by Tata, where in the engine is capable of pushing quite more but it is just artificially capped (and we know it is because the exact same turbo/internals in the Nexon). So if this theory holds ground, it wont be hard disabling a few limits or pushing them a bit farther like it's done in the Audis.

The JTP legacy and Engine design

The engine was built by the JA Motosport. From my contact who was in indirect contact with the team, and from what conversations I have had with a few tuners. The engine design is quite decent for what it is, with option for a few more engineering features Tata can opt for down the line if they needed to. Apparently the SOHC design and the MPFI choice of tech was intentional and an educated decision rather than "JUST FOR COST CUTTING".

Now for the Cons/Caveats:

1. Hard-Cut limits
2. Weak Gearbox/Clutch
3. Cheaper Turbo
4. Strict sensor readings and BS6

Hard-Cut limits

These limits are fairly strict and often hardcoded in the ECU. For example the torque clipping we just discussed, that can also be implemented in the ECU control code (maybe a part of EMS not sure) and is much harder ed to reverse engineer that way.

Weak Gearbox/Clutch

Needless to say, the gearbox setup is just shameful and does not deserve coming anywhere near a car they claim the be "The Gold Standard". Just a huge letdown. From the bad refinement, the clunky shifts, sub-par syncro feel. It is just a awful experience. (I have had the clutch slip in me when I was trying to push numbers in 4th !!IN STOCK!!)

Cheaper Turbo

The turbo in the newer BS6 engines is cheaper than the one originally designed by JA Motosport. Does not mean it is worse any way. But it is cheaper, which means certain dynamics that apply there will not apply to the newer engines. But all in all, the nexon shares the same turbo so this does not seem to be much of an issue.

Strict sensor readings and BS6

Ever had an random MIL in a Tata car that was just memorised and you can’t debug or heck even recreate it? That is because of the extremely strict sensor reading guideline setup by Tata. This just means that the range of the readings is preset, which means let's say the intake manifold reading goes up a tad bit from the stock limits. Viola! Limp Me Home Mode! It is clear a lot of power is left on the table for the BS6 norms. As the cylinder head design is the same as the JTPs, as is the power but there is a huge loss in efficiency (fuel and power).

Concluding the writeup, this platform imho seems promising. Just.. untested. For bigger tuners it's not a great investment to dig deeper into these engines because for them the ROI is tiny. Most Tata owners are older folks that are not interested in such advancements and are just fine with what they have. The sales of the Altroz NA vs the iTurbo speak for themselves. I hope this can change down the road, otherwise it's going to be just DIY land or a lost dream for most of us.

Thanks and Cheers!

[lemedico]

I have the 2021 Tiago petrol AMT. It is a bit weak on the road and the AMT doesn't make life easier except for a relaxed left leg.

My gripe with the AMT is that it's been tuned to shift from 1st to 2nd at 2500rpm. This is way too high. 2nd to 3rd is also at around 2000rpm. Fuel efficiency takes a beating and the jerks are prominent.

Any options to remap the computers to force a gearshift at say 1500rpm?

For now, I usually manually shift gears when it becomes a bit too much. I hope I can sort this out with the help of you all here!

[CannedShroud]

Originally Posted by lemedico

I have the 2021 Tiago petrol AMT. It is a bit weak on the road and the AMT doesn't make life easier except for a relaxed left leg.

My gripe with the AMT is that it's been tuned to shift from 1st to 2nd at 2500rpm. This is way too high. 2nd to 3rd is also at around 2000rpm. Fuel efficiency takes a beating and the jerks are prominent.

Any options to remap the computers to force a gearshift at say 1500rpm?

For now, I usually manually shift gears when it becomes a bit too much. I hope I can sort this out with the help of you all here!

Sad truth of the scene is that, most tuners are not interested in tuning Tata cars due to the low ROI of their development investments. And that's true, most Tata owners don't expect much from their cars except for it taking them from point A to point B safely (exception: Harrier owners).

Even I'm waiting/trying to kick off this thread so maybe we can have consolidated information about the topic. Then maybe Tatas can gain more traction in the aftermarket scene.

I wish the best for you, maybe try getting in touch with code6 or WolfMoto, they seem to have a good reputation for Tata tunes.

Thanks and cheers!

[lemedico]

Originally Posted by CannedShroud

Sad truth of the scene is that, most tuners are not interested in tuning Tata cars due to the low ROI of their development investments. And that's true, most Tata owners don't expect much from their cars except for it taking them from point A to point B safely (exception: Harrier owners).

Even I'm waiting/trying to kick off this thread so maybe we can have consolidated information about the topic. Then maybe Tatas can gain more traction in the aftermarket scene.

I wish the best for you, maybe try getting in touch with code6 or WolfMoto, they seem to have a good reputation for Tata tunes.

Thanks and cheers!

Are code6 and wolfmoto their handles on tbhp? How do I find them?