[reddyboi]

Originally Posted by sagarpadaki

You need to start eliminating the possibilities one by one and narrow down on the cause. Since you did not drive on an overheated engine for long, I feel all your engine needs is a head-gasket change.
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Thanks for the detailed RCA steps, will check this out and post the updates

[svsantosh]

Dear Reddy,

You have a choice of 2 thinking hats - as an Engineer to get down to the RCA or as a owner/depreciating asset owner - to fix and move on.

I have been there, done that - a new Gen car engine cannot be rebuilt to delivery date tolerances once it fails. It is impossible to identify all parts that have failed in a overheating episode. And all the new gen engines are machined and mated down to 0.02 tolerances, in mm. That is 20 microns for you. Everything from the head, to cam shafts to journal seating areas to valves, guildes, cylinder walls would have (or not?!) taken a hit more than 20 microns, who is going to measure all that? Dont forget the uber expensive fasteners, the HT bolts are expensive in new gen engine rebuilds. They are not supposed to be reused.

All said and done, eventually your choices are

1) A.S.S - repaired/short life engine
2) New Engine - expensive, just pray it lasts.
3) Mayapuri/Scrap market engine - Cheaper but please know the history of the car

[reddyboi]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Dear Reddy,

You have a choice of 2 thinking hats - as an Engineer to get down to the RCA or as a owner/depreciating asset owner - to fix and move on.

Thanks, Santhosh for simplifying my thoughts

Will have to take a hard call, will discuss with the A.S.S

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

I have been there, done that - a new Gen car engine cannot be rebuilt to delivery date tolerances once it fails. It is impossible to identify all parts that have failed in a overheating episode. And all the new gen engines are machined and mated down to 0.02 tolerances, in mm. That is 20 microns for you. Everything from the head, to cam shafts to journal seating areas to valves, guildes, cylinder walls would have (or not?!) taken a hit more than 20 microns, who is going to measure all that? Dont forget the uber expensive fasteners, the HT bolts are expensive in new gen engine rebuilds. They are not supposed to be reused.

Sorry, but you have got it wrong on so many aspects.

First of all 0,02 mm tolerance is very easy to measure. And easy to machine as well. Check out some of my other threads. Apart from being an amateur car mechanic I also built small-model working engines. I have a hobby mini mill and a cheap knockoff Chinese lathe and I can easily machine to 0,005mm. That is just an old guy with amateur equipment.

Once it has been established that it is the head gasket, it is very easy to check other components too. But as mentioned by others, as long as you don't drive much after you have experienced these sorts of symptoms, the collateral damage to other parts is likely to be non-existent.

As I mentioned earlier, when replacing the head gasket I usually get the head skimmed as well. Any half-decent machine shop can do that for you and they will take off just a few thousand of a millimeter.

Why do you think valves, seats, cylinders and so on would be affected at all?

Head gaskets do blow out and it is a fairly straightforward repair. It being a modern engine makes no difference at all. If anything it makes it easier. Pulling the cylinder head on an engine that was built 40 years ago, can be near to impossible. Ask me how I know!

Whether the head bolts need replacing will be shown in the workshop manual. But I doubt that very much. Even if they have to be replaced, a complete set of bolts is likely to cost less than the cost of the head gasket.

Whether you feel comfortable with a head gasket replacement is something different altogether. At face value, it sounds like quite an intimidating complex job. But part of that is caused by the Internet and some (well-meant but incorrect) advise on this thread.

Jeroen

[reddyboi]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Head gaskets do blow out and it is a fairly straightforward repair.

Whether you feel comfortable with a head gasket replacement is something different altogether. At face value, it sounds like quite an intimidating complex job.

Jeroen

Thanks, Jeroen, your message makes me less anxious. I will discuss this with A.S.S on the next steps

But the A.S.S is also quoting it to be a complex job and is estimating it to cost upwards of 1.5 Lakhs

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

Sorry, but you have got it wrong on so many aspects.

First of all 0,02 mm tolerance is very easy to measure.

Dear Jeroen, (PS - Big fan of you knowledge and work)

This is what I was talking about exactly when I was hinting which thinking hat you want to wear and approach this particular case in hand.

I can safely bet in even the most sophisticated after sales workshop of Maruti, Hyundai, TATA, Mahindra, even VW or Skoda, the most trained technician is not going to have calibrated instruments to measure, document and report what all has gone wrong in a overheated engine. It is the system limitation of a high paced environment with TAT and metrics and goals that push them to work like a KFC/McD rather than a complex engine rebuild shop.

There is no dedicated engine rebuild rooms, climate/humidity/dust controlled rooms to begin with. Ask any workshop for a calibration certificate of all the gauges and instruments, most will be wondering what are you talking about. Forget all that, ask them what is the manufacturer spec for rebuild, all but one head tech may answer you right. And he being the ustaad of the shop will have 100 other things to take care.

I cannot comment on the German car shops, I have zero experience with them, they look snazzy and jazzy from the road (I have had a peek inside Ecity-1 Audi workshop behind WIPRO, looks world class).

But rest assured, the Aam-Janta brands workshops will not give the art of engine rebuild their due respect and attention to detail.

Dear Reddy, to begin with just ask that person who gave you a 1.5Lacs estimate to put you through to the head technician and write down what they are going to do and how. Ask them to show the gauges/instruments and how exactly are they going to check what has gone wrong in the engine. You most likely will get the answer in the 1st 5 minutes of that conversation - the KFC/McD part.

[reddyboi]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

Dear JeroenAsk them to show the gauges/instruments and how exactly are they going to check what has gone wrong in the engine. You most likely will get the answer in the 1st 5 minutes of that conversation - the KFC/McD part.

Sure Santhosh, will do this, will ask for the head technician

[HillMan]

Originally Posted by reddyboi

I think this issue is different on two factors
1. Never in my vehicle did the high temperature icon popped up
2. If coolant and engine oil is mixed, it would have resulted in engine oil level increase as well. But in my case only the coolant level is increasing as soon as we fill up engine oil and not other way round. This is checked by the service team as well

I will be sceptical of spending lakh and a half to refurbish the engine with a 50-50% chance of getting back to its original ways. These engine blocks are made of alloys and precision machined. These are strong and have less wear, but not immune from developing cracks in rare cases. The team at ASC are trained to remove and replace. Expert mechanics are a rare find.

We get emotionally attached to our vehicles. Yes, they have created some good memories. Personally, if it ever comes to opening up the engine, by my experience, there will be some roughness, some performance and sense of reliability lost. You will revive it, but it will not be the same.

Try replace the head gasket seals and done with it. There are enough moving components, approving for further probing will be an expensive R&D nightmare.

Best wishes!

[Jeroen]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

[Ask them to show the gauges/instruments and how exactly are they going to check what has gone wrong in the engine. You most likely will get the answer in the 1st 5 minutes of that conversation - the KFC/McD part.

You don’t need to measure anything to replace the head gasket. The specials tools you need are a good torque wrench. And most likely you need something to fix the distribution mechanism in place. That is all.

Checking if a cilinderhead is warped is done with a regular steel ruler held against it and a torch to see if any light shines through.

If the head needs skimming, the machine shop is likely to have these tools, because you can’t machine metal without the,. Even so, on most skimming jobs on a cilinderhead all you do is take a tiny bits off. That is actually done by eye, it is irrelevant how much.

Even for a full engine overhaul you don’t need much measuring equipment. If you have an engine with cilinder liners, you would simply replace the liners with the respective size piston and rings. No measuring required.

You don’t measure play on a valve stem. You feel for it, any play and you press out the guide bushing and press a new one in. Valves are inspected first and foremost visually. If they fit snugly in the new guide bushing they are good to go.

If you have an engine without cilinder liners/bushes, you might have to bore and hone. Thats’s where you need an internal diameter caliper. You would order the oversize piston and rings according to the new diameter after boring/honing.

So, it really doesn’t take that much measuring equipment. However, a cilinder head gasket replacement, although straight forward is a big spannering job. So you need to know what you are doing.

When you remove the cilinder head with the gasket still attached to the engine it is usually possible to identify exactly where the gasket was blown.

The only way to diagnose a blown head gasket in some more detail up front is to pressurise the system and see what happens.

From what I have read so far, there doesn’t appear to be cooling liquid in your engine oil. Which also means the chances of there being a crack in either the cylinder head or engine is very small.

Good luck

Jeroen

[svsantosh]

Originally Posted by Jeroen

From what I have read so far, there doesn’t appear to be cooling liquid in your engine oil. Which also means the chances of there being a crack in either the cylinder head or engine is very small.

Quoting OP 1st post here... there was mixing observed.

Originally Posted by reddyboi

I took it to the service center and they said the engine oil and coolant were getting mixed, ...
Yesterday, when driving around, there was a thud sound in the engine, ...
....
1. Coolant is being pushed up and is spilling. So there is pressure being built up.

It may not be a crack but one thing OP did not say was there oil residue or oil film on coolant or was it choclatey mix oozing from engine oil filler cap.

[zteg]

Probably a blown head gasket or a warped cylinder head. Milky white layer on engine oil cap is a clear giveaway. Happened to my Cruze few years ago when the engine overheated after a leak in the coolant reservoir.

[reddyboi]

Originally Posted by svsantosh

It may not be a crack but one thing OP did not say was there oil residue or oil film on coolant or was it choclatey mix oozing from engine oil filler cap.

Yesterday the mechanic opened the cooler bed to identify the issue basis all the team members' suggestions

There is a milky white gluey substance, possibly indicating the mix of engine oil and coolant. The coolant pipes also had this.

The service centre head technician is suggesting if the price is seeming high, then to take the car to any local well versed Hyundai technician for a full engine cleanup with diesel to pump out and identify any more of this mixture present, and then start identifying if there is a gasket breakage problem

[KA20NexonEV]

Originally Posted by reddyboi

Yesterday the mechanic opened the cooler bed to identify the issue basis all the team members' suggestions

There is a milky white gluey substance, possibly indicating the mix of engine oil and coolant. The coolant pipes also had this.

Any head gasket failure can be easily identified by any well equipped workshop by conducting compression test of all engine cylinders. All indicated symptoms point to engine gasket failure. You can find some good local mechanics who can do this job at a minimum cost.

[fache89]

There may be a cheap way to fix this. However, given the magnitude of damage, it will be an interim fix. You can get a bottle of K-Seal from Amazon and pour it in the coolant reservoir and pray that it fixes your head gasket. If it does, you might get enough time to sell the car before the dam breaks again.

[Prasanth Nair]

In my personal experience with a Toyota Corolla - had the same engine overheating issue. Opened up the engine, got the pistons polished, got the head pressure tested and changed the seal.

After getting the work done, I had lost interest in the vehicle, decided to sell it off any way. Had a couple of people come to look at the car who were drivers by profession, and a number of them asked me if it had a 1.8 ltr engine. It was in fact a 1.6 ltr.

But after having done this open heart surgery, the engine was churning out a lot more power, and even these guys were having a difficult time believing me - they were looking at the badging on the car and the registration card to reconfirm what I had told them.

And this was done at a small wayside garage, not at the A.S.S.

So the morale of the story is, if you are really serious about retaining the vehicle AND have a competent mechanic who CAN get it done - then its not a real issue.