Team-BHP > Under the Hood > Technical Stuff

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Old 15th February 2008, 23:14   #16
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indians cannot match that quality of japanese. it all lies in attitude. Even if in INDIA all companies have the same goal of zero defects as the Japanese have there is a large attitude difference in both countries.

Eg: In India workers go on strike by shutting down the operations causing loss to the company.
In japan workers wear a black ribbon on forehead and work overtime to show protest compelling the management to agree to their point.

Japan: the country of rising Sun. We all are copying Japanese techniques to make ourselves better.
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Old 15th February 2008, 23:39   #17
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German/japan products are built to last, not for short term use. Koreans&chinease aim at more features at cheap rate. Cost of production is always low! just compare the pdts you own
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Old 16th February 2008, 00:17   #18
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We developed an i/net gateway box for Japs a few years ago, still remeber the attention to detail the guys had. wanted to know all kinds of detail unlike most EU/ Amercan firms.
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Old 16th February 2008, 00:28   #19
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There's a few points I'd like to express.
There's nothing wrong with American engineering techniques. The have some of the best technology in the world, from aircrafts, weapons and even buildings/bridges. In my 4 years of studying Mechanical Engineering in Canada, we were taught all kinds of quality control methods, GD&T etc. and they were strictly enforced with very little margin of error.

However, when it comes to commodities like cars, it also depends a lot on the market. Keep in mind that the American industry is run by accountants and lawyers, not engineers. So a design which is superior but not financially viable will not be encouraged.
American engineers will never improve their quality unless its required by law or if they are facing a lawsuit, if they are making money of it.

The simple reason why made gas guzzling, inefficient and unreliable engines was because they could afford to do so. Oil was dirt cheap until the last couple of years and the American consumer keeps his car only for about 5 years, so they didn't need to make cars as reliable as the Japanese.
It cost them less money on R&D and kept the cash coming in, so they didn't need to worry about improving on their design.

And now with the new CAFE regulations requiring a fleet average of 35 mpg by 2020 with improvements required from 2012, the big 3 are in a tough position themselves. Cerberus has already said that they are discontinuing the Viper after the 2009 model year because it'll improve their mpg average for the entire Chrysler fleet.

Last edited by sujaylahiri : 16th February 2008 at 00:40.
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Old 16th February 2008, 01:16   #20
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I have never been to Japan, but I worked for more than ten years for a Japanese company, with many Japanese colleagues from head office, ranging from the extremely arrogant and racist types who could not conceive that any mistake made was the fault of a Japanese, but must have been down to 'local' staff, to the (mostly younger) very decent people who, I'm pleased to say, were more prevalent in the company in later days.

I was told by one of my closer colleagues that the Japanese reputation for perfection is achieved by having so many people check and recheck as to make errors impossible. This is speaking of an insurance company; life and philosophy in a car company might be very different.

Japanese cars were a revelation to us Brits. They started first time on wet cold days (in our wet, cold country) and they did not rust away in two or three years. Bye bye British car industry.

From this experience we can certainly say that Japanese cars were better.
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Old 16th February 2008, 01:29   #21
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The Problem with American cars is their bad design and one can immediately notice on seeing them except a few like the shelby GT (which i like). I agree with Sujay and i believe that the american cars are designed by marketing people instead of automobile designers and engineers.

Instead of relying on their own internal design concepts and models American car companies try to make what marketing people think consumers want. But it isn't working and American cars continue to lose market share. And the reason is that the customer doesn't want what he thinks he wants.

However this comparison below baffles me and Apple is an interesting counterexample to the general American trend. If one needs a nice CD player, the person will probably buy a Japanese one (SONY). But if one wants to buy an MP3 player, the person will probably buy an iPod. What happened? Why doesn't Sony dominate MP3 players? Because Apple is in the consumer electronics business now, and unlike other American companies, they're obsessed with good design and unfortunately in car makers they are not focussed on good designs.
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Old 16th February 2008, 02:32   #22
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Originally Posted by sujaylahiri View Post
The have some of the best technology in the world, from aircrafts, weapons and even buildings/bridges.
Americans are not too good at miniaturising stuff. And they work best in scenarios that are either non-competitive, or price-insensitive. The USAF is not going to reject a Y series aircraft for a coupla million bucks here or there. The same for the Army and weapons.
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Old 16th February 2008, 03:17   #23
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I have fallen in love with German cars, whether they are powerful or not, whether they are efficient or not. It doesnt matter... Their build quality is awesome and the car feels safe no matter what you do to it. And i dont even need to start on the handling.

Case in point being SKODA, it changed the face of Indian Motoring. Why did the price sensitive, budget conscious Indian customer pay sooo much to buy Octavias when they were launched??? Because they are solid and long term cars.

If you still dont agree with me, then hell, read my signature below to put things in perspective
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Old 16th February 2008, 03:51   #24
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Originally Posted by Nitin View Post
Goes to say,the Germans & the Japs have a lot of brain power,and the tactical approach to everything makes them stand apart.If only India had 1/3 the dedication these guys have,we'd have been a brute force a long time ago.
india probably has some, but as long as there is politics and corruption at work and everywhere else, the dedicated folks will keep running away to irrelevant jobs (aeronautical engr writing .net program for walmart) or places (abroad, where they get valued).

sorry, ranting again.

EDIT: japanese are also known for their inferiority complex, society with shame as it's foundation, economy which fuels america, and lack of extra curricular life. But still, the products they make are good.

and don't even get me started on china.

Last edited by vivekiny2k : 16th February 2008 at 03:53.
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Old 16th February 2008, 04:35   #25
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Somehow am not in agreement with what 1100D mentioned in the end and can say from experience in (fortunately) driving/owning japanese/germans/american cars at various point of time, that the brit brand which TATA is buying is amazing car not piece of scrap. I love the Jaguar and surely going to be my next car which is offered with 5 years unlimited warranty; 100K Kms full parts warranty. I think it is a good test of quality and confidence of the manufacturer in his car
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Old 16th February 2008, 10:49   #26
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Originally Posted by sreenivass View Post
TQM in Japan and Precision engineering in Germany. One of my Sr. Colleagues told me a joke long ago. An American company was subcontracting some hubs or so to a Japanese manufacturer. In the letter written with an order for a few million pieces it was written "We do not expect more than 100 faulty pieces". When the order was delivered from Japan the American company received two shipments, one 10 million pieces and the other 100 faulty pieces along with a letter that said " Sir We never understood your way of doing business, we have no clue as to why you wanted 100 faulty pieces". This tells the story.
Nice one. IIRC, the Japs also mentioned that "It was extremely difficult for us to produce the defective parts. Hope what we have given you suffices" or something to that effect.
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Old 16th February 2008, 12:47   #27
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Not all Japanese & German cars / engines are better than their American, French or other counterparts. There are more running old American and Russian ones than German and Japanese ones (but then they have built more than the others). Mitsubishi, for all its EVO allure, is in the dock in JAPAN of all the places for the last few years for having supplied sub-standard cars and parts - they had fudged crash-worthiness data.

As many have said here, it is the individual quality consciousness that sets a group of people apart from others. This manifests itself in Germany & Japan to the extent of being a part of their culture and psyche.

How many of us say 'chalta hai' instead of refusing to accept bad quality? We are given what we accept, simply because other considerations (lower cost, availability, impatience) override the quality consciousness at the time of taking goods and services. Even in the best of the organizations, set the best standard and you will be surprised to find a few who have the 'chalta hai' attitude overriding standards for the sake of completing their task. Khallas, only the end-user will find out the after-effects of that.

A company's products / services are better or worse depending solely on the number of such internal points of failure. Otherwise, quality and reliability were under control by the early 80's in most automotive companies - bless SPC and SQC for that.
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Old 18th February 2008, 13:46   #28
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seems HITLER chose his allies very CARFULLY ()
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Old 18th February 2008, 14:00   #29
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Building a better product has more to do with attitude. How you want to mix excellence with business etc., When oil is dirt cheap (U.S), you don't care about efficiency of engines. When you have people who will keep changing cars every 3 to 4 years, you dont care much about reliability.

By the way, I dont think Japan and Germany approach the problem in the same way. Germans build stuff with very costly methods, costly raw materials etc.,

The Japanese build the same stuff with much less cost. That is what engineering is mostly about. Building things that are simpler and cheaper.
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