alternator belt damages timing belt???

jalsa777 · 31st May 2008, 21:00

my car, Skoda Octavia 1.9TDi had met with an accident a few days ago.

My dad tried to start it but i wouldn't start.

Took it to the workshop, apart from all the bodywork, here's what they said:

(they talked to dad, not a very technical person, i will be talking to the service guy on monday)

the alternator belt broke because of the accident,
since we tried to start the engine,

the broken belt damaged the timing belt and also some fragments have gone into the engine.

he was supposed to open the engine today (i dont know what he meant by that).

Now, i will be getting a clearer pictue of this on monday.

i dont understand how broken a alternator belt, (which is on the external side, which connects the crank, starter motor and alternator) can damage the timing belt,
which usually has a strong metal shield protecting it ?

also, on the octi, is it a timing belt or a chain?

i dont know about any other car, i just have a CBR600RR engine i work on and that has a chain,
and belts slip, so, how can they be used for timing purposes? it should be a chain.

please correct me if i am wrong.

here are some pictures

iraghava · 1st June 2008, 00:08

Huh??? A broken Aletrnator/Serpentine belt causing a broken timing belt?? I don't think that's possible since my car's alternator belt came off some time back & drove it without the alternator/power steering functioning for 120 kms at a stretch and there was no damage to any other part of the car!

gd1418 · 1st June 2008, 00:18

A very nasty accident seemingly with great impact. What I've not understood is that how the alternator belt, that also happens to be the main belt driving the AC compressor and the power steering, snapped? Secondly, what do you mean by fragments entering the engine?

As you apprehended, I don't see any relation between the timing belt/chain and the alternator belt. If the main belt has snapped then it should not damage the timing chain/belt.

Please get a second opinion..

Quote:

Originally Posted by jalsa777

my car, Skoda Octavia 1.9TDi had met with an accident a few days ago.

My dad tried to start it but i wouldn't start.

Took it to the workshop, apart from all the bodywork, here's what they said:

(they talked to dad, not a very technical person, i will be talking to the service guy on monday)

the alternator belt broke because of the accident,
since we tried to start the engine,

the broken belt damaged the timing belt and also some fragments have gone into the engine.

he was supposed to open the engine today (i dont know what he meant by that).

Now, i will be getting a clearer pictue of this on monday.

i dont understand how broken a alternator belt, (which is on the external side, which connects the crank, starter motor and alternator) can damage the timing belt,
which usually has a strong metal shield protecting it ?

also, on the octi, is it a timing belt or a chain?

i dont know about any other car, i just have a CBR600RR engine i work on and that has a chain,
and belts slip, so, how can they be used for timing purposes? it should be a chain.

please correct me if i am wrong.

here are some pictures

jalsa777 · 1st June 2008, 01:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by gd1418

What I've not understood is that how the alternator belt, that also happens to be the main belt driving the AC compressor and the power steering, snapped? Secondly, what do you mean by fragments entering the engine?

even i dont know how it broke, but it did.

the accident happened in pune, i have my exams going on, so couldnt go to see.

I will be going there on monday, and also talking to them for the first time on monday.

I am sure there is some missing info.

and skoda guys are known to rip people off.

will keep you guys updated.

anyone had a similar experience?

flipsyde · 1st June 2008, 01:27

I don't see how a damaged alternator belt can possibly ruin the timing belt.

secondly i think skodas have timing chains and not belts (for that matter don't most modern diesels have timing chains - swift diesel for example)

timing belts have deep cut grooves on them that seat perfectly on the cam gear and hence slippage is never an issue unless we're talking about an old car which has quite a few kms put on it.

the accident seems like it wasn't much. i'm sure the driver and occupants were shaken up but look.....hardly any damage other than for the front fender panel and portion of the bonnet. how on earth did something like that snap the alternator belt???? thats wierd!!!

gd1418 · 1st June 2008, 10:31

If you call a 2004 Scorpio as modern then it has timing gears instead of chain/belt. The modern Safaris/Dicors have timing belts.

Snapping of timing belt/chain in a diesel car results in major damage such as bent valves, broken piston heads etc., resulting in complete overhaul.

Quote:

Originally Posted by flipsyde

secondly i think skodas have timing chains and not belts (for that matter don't most modern diesels have timing chains - swift diesel for example)

timing belts have deep cut grooves on them that seat perfectly on the cam gear and hence slippage is never an issue unless we're talking about an old car which has quite a few kms put on it.

jalsa777 · 1st June 2008, 13:28

the timing belt/chain was changed in the last srvice.
they change it at 60k km.

i think those guys must have not done it properly and hence all these problems.

cant wait to talk to him and seeing what has happened, i m getting that itchhy feeling.

GTO - Touring · 1st June 2008, 20:05

Its a Skoda dealer, what else do you expect? The truth? Please do get a second opinion on the damage, preferably from an indepedent shop.

aaggoswami · 1st June 2008, 20:43

Fragements entering engine ..?
What do they mean ?

And Alternator belt snapped so timing belt also got damaged and parts entered into engine. I dont understand this.

If these is really the truth, would like to upgrade myself, but in all possibility, its not likely that things have entered the engine and they are opening the engine, and that should be mostly not necessary.

Shardul · 1st June 2008, 22:43

the guys at the shop are probably ripping you off. broken alternator belt cannot cause the timing belt/chain the break.

jalsa777 · 2nd June 2008, 22:25

went there and saw what has happened.

The dealer was right.
i saw the broken belt et all.

here is what happened and how,
the alternator belt is quite close to the right hand side of the car, so it broke.

Now comes the shokker,
SKODA 1.9TDI HAS A TIMING BELT AND NOT A CHAIN.
AND THAT FLIMSY BELT DOES NOT HAVE A FULL METAL SHIELD.

so, the broken alternator belt damaged the timing pulley, which resulted in belt failure,
which resulted in BENT VALVES.

luckily cylinder heads havent been damaged
the valves and cam shaft were to go for machining today.
there was nothing gone into the engine as mentioned earlier.

the total cost of everything would be close to 300k !!

this is crap engineering, even timing chains should be well protected,
and here is a timing BELT that is not protected.
thts hopeless engineering.

i think its extreme cost cutting or trying to get more damaged part hence more selling of spare parts.
whatever it is, it sucks bigtime

will be posting pictures soon

ajmat · 2nd June 2008, 22:40

It was also a lack of common sense to start the car up when it was obvious there was damage in the engine bay.

Did you expect the engine to be encapsulated in a anothet metal box. The car has suffered a major impact. If you want a car to be immune to such impact buy a hummer or an amby

androdev · 2nd June 2008, 22:47

the accident does not look that sever to result in such expensive damage.

and i agree about not using protective covers for such critical parts. a rat bit off some wires in my skoda. fortunately it was just headlamp wires so no damage done. but i heard rats biting off more interesting parts resulting in heavy repair bills. such problems wont arise if they use adequate protective covers.

hey is it possible to post the entire estimate/quote the dealer gave you? it will be very useful info.

normally_crazy · 2nd June 2008, 23:06

Jalsa,

Agreed the timing belt is on the right side of thr car, but looking at the pictures I do not think it's possible that the timing belt should have any damage forget breaking off.

Timing belts and bearing should cost you around 8500 bucks - add 2000 bucks labour for that. :O

I also would suggest you to get a 2nd opinion - but it seems like the owrk has already started on your car.

I see a mention of bent valves - buddy which dealer have you taken the car to ?

EDIT - just saw that you changed the timing belt at 60000 kms. How much did it cost ?

aaggoswami · 2nd June 2008, 23:19

@jalsa777:

Thanks for upgrading us all about the presence of timing belt and not timing chain.
The fact that this does not have a timing belt cover is not good that too for such an expensive machine.

The part BENT VALVES again seems somewhat non-understandable. Please ask for explanation and post here. It is mostly not possible that the valves got BENT.

Looking forward to images.

31st May 2008, 21:00	#1
jalsa777 BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 709 Thanked: 1,711 Times	alternator belt damages timing belt??? my car, Skoda Octavia 1.9TDi had met with an accident a few days ago. My dad tried to start it but i wouldn't start. Took it to the workshop, apart from all the bodywork, here's what they said: (they talked to dad, not a very technical person, i will be talking to the service guy on monday) the alternator belt broke because of the accident, since we tried to start the engine, the broken belt damaged the timing belt and also some fragments have gone into the engine. he was supposed to open the engine today (i dont know what he meant by that). Now, i will be getting a clearer pictue of this on monday. i dont understand how broken a alternator belt, (which is on the external side, which connects the crank, starter motor and alternator) can damage the timing belt, which usually has a strong metal shield protecting it ? also, on the octi, is it a timing belt or a chain? i dont know about any other car, i just have a CBR600RR engine i work on and that has a chain, and belts slip, so, how can they be used for timing purposes? it should be a chain. please correct me if i am wrong. here are some pictures Attached Thumbnails
	() Thanks

1st June 2008, 00:08	#2
iraghava Senior - BHPian Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Bhaiyyaland Posts: 7,997 Thanked: 281 Times View My Garage	Huh??? A broken Aletrnator/Serpentine belt causing a broken timing belt?? I don't think that's possible since my car's alternator belt came off some time back & drove it without the alternator/power steering functioning for 120 kms at a stretch and there was no damage to any other part of the car!
	() Thanks

1st June 2008, 01:27	#5
flipsyde BHPian Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Chennai Posts: 643 Thanked: 84 Times	I don't see how a damaged alternator belt can possibly ruin the timing belt. secondly i think skodas have timing chains and not belts (for that matter don't most modern diesels have timing chains - swift diesel for example) timing belts have deep cut grooves on them that seat perfectly on the cam gear and hence slippage is never an issue unless we're talking about an old car which has quite a few kms put on it. the accident seems like it wasn't much. i'm sure the driver and occupants were shaken up but look.....hardly any damage other than for the front fender panel and portion of the bonnet. how on earth did something like that snap the alternator belt???? thats wierd!!!
	() Thanks

1st June 2008, 13:28	#7
jalsa777 BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 709 Thanked: 1,711 Times	the timing belt/chain was changed in the last srvice. they change it at 60k km. i think those guys must have not done it properly and hence all these problems. cant wait to talk to him and seeing what has happened, i m getting that itchhy feeling.
	() Thanks

1st June 2008, 20:05	#8
GTO - Touring BHPian Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 709 Thanked: 56 Times	Its a Skoda dealer, what else do you expect? The truth? Please do get a second opinion on the damage, preferably from an indepedent shop.
	() Thanks

1st June 2008, 20:43	#9
aaggoswami Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara Posts: 4,997 Thanked: 3,000 Times	Fragements entering engine ..? What do they mean ? And Alternator belt snapped so timing belt also got damaged and parts entered into engine. I dont understand this. If these is really the truth, would like to upgrade myself, but in all possibility, its not likely that things have entered the engine and they are opening the engine, and that should be mostly not necessary.
	() Thanks

1st June 2008, 22:43	#10
Shardul Newbie Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: USA Posts: 17 Thanked: 3 Times	the guys at the shop are probably ripping you off. broken alternator belt cannot cause the timing belt/chain the break.
	() Thanks

2nd June 2008, 22:25	#11
jalsa777 BHPian Join Date: May 2006 Location: Mumbai Posts: 709 Thanked: 1,711 Times	here is what happened went there and saw what has happened. The dealer was right. i saw the broken belt et all. here is what happened and how, the alternator belt is quite close to the right hand side of the car, so it broke. Now comes the shokker, SKODA 1.9TDI HAS A TIMING BELT AND NOT A CHAIN. AND THAT FLIMSY BELT DOES NOT HAVE A FULL METAL SHIELD. so, the broken alternator belt damaged the timing pulley, which resulted in belt failure, which resulted in BENT VALVES. luckily cylinder heads havent been damaged the valves and cam shaft were to go for machining today. there was nothing gone into the engine as mentioned earlier. the total cost of everything would be close to 300k !! this is crap engineering, even timing chains should be well protected, and here is a timing BELT that is not protected. thts hopeless engineering. i think its extreme cost cutting or trying to get more damaged part hence more selling of spare parts. whatever it is, it sucks bigtime will be posting pictures soon Last edited by jalsa777 : 2nd June 2008 at 22:27.
	() Thanks

2nd June 2008, 22:40	#12
ajmat Team-BHP Support Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Bangalore Posts: 15,178 Thanked: 31,078 Times View My Garage	It was also a lack of common sense to start the car up when it was obvious there was damage in the engine bay. Did you expect the engine to be encapsulated in a anothet metal box. The car has suffered a major impact. If you want a car to be immune to such impact buy a hummer or an amby
	() Thanks

2nd June 2008, 22:47	#13
androdev Distinguished - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: bangalore Posts: 3,255 Thanked: 25,282 Times	the accident does not look that sever to result in such expensive damage. and i agree about not using protective covers for such critical parts. a rat bit off some wires in my skoda. fortunately it was just headlamp wires so no damage done. but i heard rats biting off more interesting parts resulting in heavy repair bills. such problems wont arise if they use adequate protective covers. hey is it possible to post the entire estimate/quote the dealer gave you? it will be very useful info.
	() Thanks

2nd June 2008, 23:06	#14
normally_crazy Senior - BHPian Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Mumbai Posts: 4,305 Thanked: 543 Times View My Garage	Jalsa, Agreed the timing belt is on the right side of thr car, but looking at the pictures I do not think it's possible that the timing belt should have any damage forget breaking off. Timing belts and bearing should cost you around 8500 bucks - add 2000 bucks labour for that. :O I also would suggest you to get a 2nd opinion - but it seems like the owrk has already started on your car. I see a mention of bent valves - buddy which dealer have you taken the car to ? EDIT - just saw that you changed the timing belt at 60000 kms. How much did it cost ? Last edited by normally_crazy : 2nd June 2008 at 23:10.
	() Thanks

2nd June 2008, 23:19	#15
aaggoswami Senior - BHPian Join Date: May 2007 Location: Vadodara Posts: 4,997 Thanked: 3,000 Times	@jalsa777: Thanks for upgrading us all about the presence of timing belt and not timing chain. The fact that this does not have a timing belt cover is not good that too for such an expensive machine. The part BENT VALVES again seems somewhat non-understandable. Please ask for explanation and post here. It is mostly not possible that the valves got BENT. Looking forward to images.
	() Thanks